Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[Wunderbar]

So, what does giving to NPCs Sake do?
I gave unrefined sake to the sculptor, and now Emma gave me another sake for the sculptor, but this time i noticed you can give it to her back.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

So how good would you people say the game is right now?

It's a good game buried under some seriously obtuse design decisions that will absolutely infuriate you constantly in the beginning hours and often later on.

eg: the game tells you about its rock-paper-scissors blocking system: block a stab, jump a swing, and dodge a grab. The tutorial and tip system will beat this into your head.
Then the game immediately introduces a miniboss with a near-instagib long-range lunging grab that can only be countered by jumping; WTF From?

The grab is countered by dodging (i.e. getting away from it, whether by pressing the dodge button, jumping, running away, roping away or whatever). Would you prefer the game to be some type of pavlovian shit where you see yellow light and press the button as a reflex to automatically avoid any attacks without any regard to what is actually going on on a screen?

Incorrect. The counter to the lunge-grab is to jump on his head like mario. Sounds like you never figured it out - which is my point. It looks nothing like the sweep attacks a jump is supposed to be used for. How is any player supposed to know without rote trial-and-error that his giant invisible hitbox and turn-on-a-dime tracking only extend to the horizontal dimension?

I am generally not a big stickler for realism in my games but if a game can't stick anywhere near the rules they set up themselves then it's just bad design.

I just moved out of the way. I guess there are many thing to counter that grab, huh?

 

[cvv]

So, what does giving to NPCs Sake do?
I gave unrefined sake to the sculptor, and now Emma gave me another sake for the sculptor, but this time i noticed you can give it to her back.

Bits of lore maybe? Didn't notice anything else.

 

[Cromwell]

I just moved out of the way. I guess there are many thing to counter that grab, huh?

what he means is a specific counter to damage posture, what you (and everyone with half a brain) means is "not getting hurt".

 

[Steezus]

Incorrect. The counter to the lunge-grab is to jump on his head like mario. Sounds like you never figured it out - which is my point. It looks nothing like the sweep attacks a jump is supposed to be used for. How is any player supposed to know without rote trial-and-error that his giant invisible hitbox and turn-on-a-dime tracking only extend to the horizontal dimension?

I am generally not a big stickler for realism in my games but if a game can't stick anywhere near the rules they set up themselves then it's just bad design.

I agree that the Ogre has horrible hit boxes and tracking, but lmao @ the autistic "no, you don't counter it by jumping! You counter it by other jumping!"

 

[Jinn]

I genuinely can't understand how people wouldn't feel extreme satisfaction from beating any one of they mini-bosses or bosses (except Bull, cause that was indeed a bit of a shit boss fight). I usually end up involuntarily fist pumping and saying "fuck yeeaaaaah" every time like an idiot. I have yet to feel any fight to be completely unfair, or feel as though the game has robbed me of my time. The game continues teaching you all the time, and encourages your growth as a player through harrowing experience. When you can go back and run through all of Hirata Estate cutting down every enemy in your way without stopping, it really makes sense how far you've come in a relatively short amount of time. And better still, you can still trip up when you're doing stuff like this and get cut down like a punk by some foot-soldier or bandit. All I can do when that happens is grin.

 

[Suicidal]

I have a question:

Spoiler

Who is the timid maid who gets Dragonrot after you die? I died a couple of times in the memory area and gave AIDS to the sculptor and the maid but I cannot find the maid anywhere. Is it the old woman who gives you the bell? Cause I found her dead as soon as I exited the memory zone. Is there any way to prevent that other than not dying?

 

[Cromwell]

I genuinely can't understand how people wouldn't feel extreme satisfaction from beating any one of they mini-bosses or bosses

beating yes, fighting no. It may be a thing with the presentation for me, the fact that you have o be agressive is one thing but the problem for me is that it seems like you lose progress if you dont and that feels frustrating (at least to me). Technically a high hp boss in a normal action game would take as long to take down as the sekiro ones (or even longer) but at least you can measure your progress on his hp bar. Here its mostly "attack in all their blocks and deflects and wait for their bar to fill to kill them, stop attacking and the bar regenerates" its not as simple as that in practice but it looks and feels that way and I think thats adding to the frustration.

the same system but with big hp bars and effects that add to the damage if you attack in succession and deflect them (and the damage going back down if you get deflected, hit or stop attacking for to long) instead of the posture bar would be fundamently the same but at least to me would feel better.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I also believe Bull to be intentionally the way it is. From Software puts a kind of meta-narrative in npcs mouths who say they are not sure if using that Bull was a good idea. I think this refers to both in-game events, but also the assessment of shittiness of the boss of the developers! Onc again Myiazaki proves to be the Master of the narrative.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I genuinely can't understand how people wouldn't feel extreme satisfaction from beating any one of they mini-bosses or bosses

beating yes, fighting no. It may be a thing with the presentation for me, the fact that you have o be agressive is one thing but the problem for me is that it seems like you lose progress if you dont and that feels frustrating (at least to me). Technically a high hp boss in a normal action game would take as long to take down as the sekiro ones (or even longer) but at least you can measure your progress on his hp bar. Here its mostly "attack in all their blocks and deflects and wait for their bar to fill to kill them, stop attacking and the bar regenerates" its not as simple as that in practice but it looks and feels that way and I think thats adding to the frustration.

But it works both ways. For most bosses you first must reduce their hp so that their posture stops regenerating as fast!

 

[Zep Zepo]

I watched some toober play the first couple hours or so. (While I wait for Gamefly to send this shit, hopefully I'll have it Monday)

I see him beat some mini-bosses like the Ogre, 2 dot General (and Snake) pretty easily.

I was worried about the difficulty against my old man skilz.

Now to me, not having the game yet...it seems like ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, see RED SYMBOL over the mooks head, dodge or evade or whatever it's called, then repeat.

I'm feeling a little better that I can do this and not return the game after a rage quit or whatever. Just take a rest.

Now this guy is playing a "review" copy...possible it's easier..I don't know.

Zep--

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I watched some toober play the first couple hours or so. (While I wait for Gamefly to send this shit, hopefully I'll have it Monday)

I see him beat some mini-bosses like the Ogre, 2 dot General (and Snake) pretty easily.

I was worried about the difficulty against my old man skilz.

Now to me, not having the game yet...it seems like ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, see RED SYMBOL over the mooks head, dodge or evade or whatever it's called, then repeat.

I'm feeling a little better that I can do this and not return the game after a rage quit or whatever. Just take a rest.

Now this guy is playing a "review" copy...possible it's easier..I don't know.

Zep--

What you don't see on the video that not only you need to spam attack, you need to perfect timing deflect enemy strikes at the same time which make the game more difficult than it seems.

 

[cvv]

Beat Snake Eyes. Miyazaki you fucking sadistic prick.

 

[Jinn]

I really think part of the reason a number of people get so frustrated with Sekiro is the mindset they entered the game with. My great enjoyment of it seems like it was aided by 1. Not having any expectations for what type of game it would be, 2. Knowing I would have a lot to learn and being prepared to be patient with that fact, and 3. Knowing without a shadow of a doubt that this game was going to push my shit in. Indeed it does push my shit in at times, but I never feel the difficulty to be grating or insurmountable. I just accept that I need to learn another new approach, which is what Sekiro is all about. Learning, growing, bending your enemy's strength to your will, patience, and finding success through failure.

 

[Steezus]

I genuinely can't understand how people wouldn't feel extreme satisfaction from beating any one of they mini-bosses or bosses

beating yes, fighting no. It may be a thing with the presentation for me, the fact that you have o be agressive is one thing but the problem for me is that it seems like you lose progress if you dont and that feels frustrating (at least to me). Technically a high hp boss in a normal action game would take as long to take down as the sekiro ones (or even longer) but at least you can measure your progress on his hp bar. Here its mostly "attack in all their blocks and deflects and wait for their bar to fill to kill them, stop attacking and the bar regenerates" its not as simple as that in practice but it looks and feels that way and I think thats adding to the frustration.

But it works both ways. For most bosses you first must reduce their hp so that their posture stops regenerating as fast!

The Butterfly boss fight teaches you exactly this, yet some people still don't get how it's supposed to work and then blurt out the same nonsense as Cromwell.

There is a clear progress in boss fights and you don't lose it, if you stop attacking for a second. The game doesn't ask you to reduce your enemy's posture at the start of the fight. It doesn't work like that, unless you're unbelievably skilled. You're supposed to engage in regular fighting, trading blows until you reduce your opponent's HP to about 1/3, where his posture bar regenerats at a MUCH lower speed (it even changes colors, so even the mucho autismo guys should notice). This is when even infrequent attacks build up the meter at a good rate and this is when you're supposed to pull off your critical hit.

snip

Don't get it twisted, the game is hard and gets pretty challening after the snake.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I genuinely can't understand how people wouldn't feel extreme satisfaction from beating any one of they mini-bosses or bosses (except Bull, cause that was indeed a bit of a shit boss fight). I usually end up involuntarily fist pumping and saying "fuck yeeaaaaah" every time like an idiot. I have yet to feel any fight to be completely unfair, or feel as though the game has robbed me of my time. The game continues teaching you all the time, and encourages your growth as a player through harrowing experience. When you can go back and run through all of Hirata Estate cutting down every enemy in your way without stopping, it really makes sense how far you've come in a relatively short amount of time. And better still, you can still trip up when you're doing stuff like this and get cut down like a punk by some foot-soldier or bandit. All I can do when that happens is grin.

I don't feel satisfaction because I never feel like I'll be rewarded in a meaningful way that expands and deepens the way I play the game. Beyond the skills you learn within the first hour none of the new ones you learn are that much of a game changer and most of the skills are passives. The tools aren't all that exciting to me either since some of them are either situational or very situational, excepting Firecracker cheesing which seems to work in many situations, but it's not a particularly fun or rewarding gameplay experience to just stun enemies like that.
And that's just on top of not liking the style of gameplay in Sekiro anyway. Why is it so hard to understand that some people won't like the things that you love? I'm surprised that a Codexer, of all people, would be confused by this. I love God Hand but most people seem to loathe it.

 

[Urthor]

The issue is that people seem to be super unhappy that the gameplay is remotely accessible at all or there is a learning curve, which just feels like silly gatekeeping

There's a huge crowd of people who seem to just want Dark Souls 4 no changes at all and are very unhappy the game is different

There are a lot of actually difficult bosses but they are back ended and presumably the difficulty will only ramp up in NG++

 

[Cromwell]

There is a clear progress in boss fights and you don't lose it, if you stop attacking for a second. The game doesn't ask you to reduce your enemy's posture at the start of the fight. It doesn't work like that, unless you're unbelievably skilled. You're supposed to engage in regular fighting, trading blows until you reduce your opponent's HP to about 1/3, where his posture bar regenerats at a MUCH lower speed (it even changes colors, so even the mucho autismo guys should notice). This is when even infrequent attacks build up the meter at a good rate and this is when you're supposed to pull off your critical hit.

I understand how the system works but as I said above I prefer larger healthpools with bigger chunks you take out of them instead of slowly chipping away at health to then break the posture. It just feels better for me.

 

[Steezus]

There is a clear progress in boss fights and you don't lose it, if you stop attacking for a second. The game doesn't ask you to reduce your enemy's posture at the start of the fight. It doesn't work like that, unless you're unbelievably skilled. You're supposed to engage in regular fighting, trading blows until you reduce your opponent's HP to about 1/3, where his posture bar regenerats at a MUCH lower speed (it even changes colors, so even the mucho autismo guys should notice). This is when even infrequent attacks build up the meter at a good rate and this is when you're supposed to pull off your critical hit.

I understand how the system works but as I said above I prefer larger healthpools with bigger chunks you take out of them instead of slowly chipping away at health to then break the posture. It just feels better for me.

I legit don't think you do, if you complain about losing progress in a boss fight when you stop attacking for a second.

 

[Cromwell]

I legit don't think you do, if you complain about losing progress in a boss fight when you stop attacking for a second.

its simple you have a small healthbar you chip away at, then you have a big yellow bar that fills up and goes down again. Now you know that if this posture bar is full the boss dies. You watch this bar go up then do whatever else and watch it go down again. It doesnt matter if I know for a fact that this bar will stay filled after I have chipped away 2/3rds of the bosses health, I will still see a big bar that screams "fill me to kill the thing" going up and going down again for most of the fight. Imagine a big chunk of money and over the course of a year I take away some and add some, in the end if everything goes right you get a large chunk but you are forced to concentrate on the process of me taking and giving, and you want to tell me that feels better than me giving you money in increments never taking any even if the endresult is still the same? You have way more patience than me.

I didnt say the system is shit it just goes against my every instinct, the same reason I died countless times in other games because I was greedy and wanted to get the last two hits in instead of waiting for another windows like the gazillion times before. I get the same frustration when the posture bar is almost full and I know if I only got these last two hits in I could kill the thing without chipping away more health and fill the bar again. Its a perception problem.

 

[Jinn]

Why is it so hard to understand that some people won't like the things that you love? I'm surprised that a Codexer, of all people, would be confused by this. I love God Hand but most people seem to loathe it.

It's absolutely fine that you don't like Sekiro, and not difficult to understand in the least. Of course a lot of people wouldn't like Sekiro. Now whether their reasons for that are based on actual faults of the game, or the pre-conceived notion of what the game should have been is another story (no, I am not implying you are this type of person).

Also, no need for the condescension. The point of that particular statement was more that I don't understand how people who stick with the game long enough to fight a great deal of bosses wouldn't be getting a similar excitement and satisfaction from it as I tend to. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't still be playing it. I wasn't saying "why isn't everyone who plays videogames playing and enjoying Sekiro and also finding its boss fights as enjoyable and exhilarating as me?"

 

[Hobo Elf]

Why is it so hard to understand that some people won't like the things that you love? I'm surprised that a Codexer, of all people, would be confused by this. I love God Hand but most people seem to loathe it.

It's absolutely fine that you don't like Sekiro, and not difficult to understand in the least. Of course a lot of people wouldn't like Sekiro. Now whether their reasons for that are based on actual faults of the game, or the pre-conceived notion of what the game should have been is another story (no, I am not implying you are this type of person).

Indeed, I'm sick of Souls and after 5 games in a row of that variety it's time From moves on to something new and exciting. I wasn't trying to look for Souls with a feudal Japan setting in Sekiro and that's one of the few things that I really do enjoy about the game: that it's not another goddamn Souls game. In some cases they could've tried to distance themselves from Souls even more, but I'm not sure how much of their design was limited by the engine itself.

Also, no need for the condescension. The point of that particular statement was more that I don't understand how people who stick with the game long enough to fight a great deal of bosses wouldn't be getting a similar excitement and satisfaction from it as I tend to. If I didn't, I probably wouldn't still be playing it. I wasn't saying "why isn't everyone who plays videogames playing and enjoying Sekiro and also finding its boss fights as enjoyable and exhilarating as me?"

I wasn't attempting to be condescending so I'm sorry if that's what you got out of the comment. I see all these people talking about how much they enjoy Sekiro and I just wanted to see if I could find that magical fun as well. Sometimes it takes a bit of effort on your part to enjoy a game (quick example: it took me hours and lots of blood, tears and sweat but I finally got into Gothic and now it's one of my favorite game series of all time), sadly this just wasn't the case with Sekiro for me. But at least I can say that I didn't like the game on its own mechanical terms so this gives me some resolution/satisfaction in giving it up, instead of just finding it off putting merely because it's not another Souls game or because the difficulty is just overtuned above my comfort level.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Let's all agree that it's at least better than Dark Souls 3 since it's not a clone of a clone of demon's souls.

 

[Talby]

Oh cool, a dark cave. I wonder what's inside.

Spoiler

Looks like some kind of purple light on the ground. I bet it's a cool item.

Spoiler

 

[Wunderbar]

Oh cool, a dark cave. I wonder what's inside.

Spoiler

Looks like some kind of purple light on the ground. I bet it's a cool item.

Spoiler