Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns - Dead Man's Switch Original Campaign

[Excidium]

You can reduce it at least.

 

[Jaesun]

It's like people have never played a PnP session before (which has NO save points, at all BTW).

tabletop and videogames are two very different things.

Yes they are. But what I can see, was they were more trying to closely resemble a tabletop session with Shadowrun Returns, but gave in to the faggotry. Which is a shame.

There is no single point of adding the saving option, other than to please "casual gamers" who do not understand that if they make a wrong decision, they have to then complete the task with the decisions they made (which is more closely associated to a PnP session). Now all they have to do is LOL, reload a save.

Granted, we still do not yet posses technology yet which can take all players actions into account, like a Human DM can do. But that, has been the crux of all cRPG's problems.....

 

[Excidium]

It's like people have never played a PnP session before (which has NO save points, at all BTW).

tabletop and videogames are two very different things.

Yes they are. But what I can see, was they were more trying to closely resemble a tabletop session with Shadowrun Returns

Haha. No, if that was the case they couldn't have failed harder, this is as far from an actual tabletop session as it possibly gets. They didn't implement a proper save system for more technical reasons.

There is no single point of adding the saving option, other than to please "casual gamers" who do not understand that if they make a wrong decision, they have to then complete the task with the decisions they made (which is more closely associated to a PnP session). Now all they have to do is LOL, reload a save.

It's not about reloading decisions (which is laughable considering how linear and devoid of real reactivity the game is), it's about not being forced to redo in the exact same manner with the same characters the same content you just did a few minutes ago because you are at the mercy of a checkpoint system.

And by the way, if there's something they made to please "casual gamers" was the entire fucking game, because it is the definition of a "light" CRPG.

Granted, we still do not yet posses technology yet which can take all players actions into account, like a Human DM can do. But that, has been the crux of all cRPG's problems.....

Technology is less of an issue than lack of developer and player interest. Too busy copying old games and their limitations while being lauded for it to really take the genre to anything close to the level of a tabletop session.

 

[ricolikesrice]

i d happily trade a save system for shadowrun returns even capturing a tiny fraction of the shadowrun PnPs spirit/mechanics. unfortunately its absolutely NOTHING like that apart from skill, weapon, archetype names. it’s a fucking 08/15 simpleton iOS rpg ™ dressed in (pretty!) shadowrun art and shadowrun writing but the gameplay is not only total shit but totally not shadowrun.

a street samurai that cant even chose cyberware during character creation ? cyberware that sucks ass and has less effect on gameplay than the dress that you wear ?

I never expected a 1:1 pnp rules port but they could at least have tried to get the spirit of those rules right. yet if you removed the shadowrun name and art nobody would get the idea that 08/15 soldier is supposed to be a street samurai or drone guy is supposed to be a rigger. or or or. coming up with new mechanics more fit for a computer RPG is okay in my book if a) they are good and b) they still keep the “feeling” of the class intact

shadowrun returns failed really hard in both.

The reason I d love a fucking save system would be that people would shut the fuck up about it and concentrate on the real flaws of the game of which there are plenty. So far (I really do hope I am wrong) it doesn’t look like dragonfalls adresses any of these flaws.

mind you the PnP shadowrun i played was almost 20 ago ... i think version 2.5 ? i m not up to date on any changes. but if SRR is close to the shadowrun PnP how big is the rulebook then ? 4 pages ?

 

[agentorange]

It's like people have never played a PnP session before (which has NO save points, at all BTW).

Faggots everywhere. And them listening to these faggots. Such a shame.

Yes but, as far as I know, with a half competent DM, you never end up failing and having to retry the EXACT same sequence of events in a PNP session. And especially given how linear Shadowrun is; it's not like it allows to get into fail states which are not instant death (ala being captured by the Mutants in Fallout) which would at least be a tangible mechanics reason for choosing not to have a save anywhere feature. As it is it is just fucking tedious.

 

[Lhynn]

Yes but, as far as I know, with a half competent DM, you never end up failing and having to retry the EXACT same sequence of events in a PNP session.

Did it once, was kinda cool, dimensional hopping and time travel.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's like people have never played a PnP session before

But what I can see, was they were more trying to closely resemble a tabletop session with Shadowrun Returns

makes me wonder if you have ever played a shadowrun pnp session

 

[agentorange]

Yes but, as far as I know, with a half competent DM, you never end up failing and having to retry the EXACT same sequence of events in a PNP session.

Did it once, was kinda cool, dimensional hopping and time travel.

Well, OK, but in that case the time travel was used as an in-universe reason for repeating the same thing over right? Like how in Planescape you can't really die because you just end up back at Mortuary. Of course Planescape also had save-anywhere, so really there's no excuse not to take advantage of shit, like saving, that making an RPG for the PC allows.

 

[Trash]

What I'm wondering about is if the modding scene took off with this game? It always seemed to me as if the best content might be the fan made modules. Especially with over 20 years of pnp stuff to use.

 

[Roguey]

I've quoted multiple developers who said the lack of saving wasn't part of their vision and yet Jaesun keeps on believing his nonsense. And then there's

I DO care that they never implemented proper world persistence (and thus making nonlinear content possible without a crapton of kludging that doesn't even work right a lot of the time), and not having a proper save system is just a symptom of that problem.

Ah yes, just like P&P.

 

[Wizfall]

Main issue with SR was not the gameplay.
The combat mechanics while simple were good enough, much better than in Fallout for example.
With the same mechanics the combats would have been instantly much more enjoyable if balanced (much harder and more strategic).

Unlike W2, Torment, Deadstate or PE Shadowrun was never meant to be anything but a light adventure cRPG reminiscent of the console games.
The linearity was too much even for that though but otherwise it was a very enjoyable game and a success IMO.
Only retards expected implementation of the PnP rules (even partial) and a full cRPG considering the goals of the kickstarter (moreover the ridiculous development time and tiny budget should have been a clear indication).

 

[SwiftCrack]

Got the key but tempted to throw it in the wind. I have no intention of wasting any more of my precious time on SR.

Messages: 6,216

Also the best knife/dagger throwing simulator is Commandos 2

 

[Roguey]

From the Kickstarter comments of the last update

What? Sending out the keys a week ahead of time? Who does that?

Hee. Ah yes, I know of a fairly recent release that didn't. They botched the roll-out too.

 

[Jaesun]

with a half competent DM, you never end up failing

Are you kidding me? You must play with some shitty DM's then....

 

[Excidium]

Are you being retarded on purpose? What the fuck.

 

[ricolikesrice]

Main issue with SR was not the gameplay.
The combat mechanics while simple were good enough, much better than in Fallout for example.
With the same mechanics the combats would have been instantly much more enjoyable if balanced (much harder and more strategic).

Unlike W2, Torment, Deadstate or PE Shadowrun was never meant to be anything but a light adventure cRPG reminiscent of the console games.
The linearity was too much even for that though but otherwise it was a very enjoyable game and a success IMO.
Only retards expected implementation of the PnP rules (even partial) and a full cRPG considering the goals of the kickstarter (moreover the ridiculous development time and tiny budget should have been a clear indication).

main issue with SRR was not the gameplay ? what else ? video/audio were pretty good for the budget i d say !

...anyhow

a) the small budget excuses things like the lack of destructible environments or different height levels (things that would have been nice but noone reasonable complains about)... but it wouldnt have changed the budget of SRR much to have a reasonably good combat and more importantly character creation & progression system. thats the job of designers and they already had them hired and paid their wages. what gives you the idea that with a few millions more they might have done a better job ? would a higher paycheck made them think "oh damnit, we really fucked up on cyberware" ? would it require 100.000 or 1.000.000 dollars to make a few stats more meaningfull or introduce a couple new scripts ? i wonder how much money styg is using for underrail - by your logic and in comparision to SRR underrail must have costed 4 million dollars by now!

and while we re unlikely to get offical numbers i d bet you good money on blackguards costing less/similar to SRR while beating it silly in every regard but graphics.
Vault Dweller must be a millionaire too !

b) lack of time somewhat excuses lack of balance. but people good at their job would have maybe had the balls to say "well guys we re really sorry but before we re going to halfass deckers (like we did)" we rather leave them out for DMS (and bring them in via dragonfall) and focus on making every other class feel right. i m pretty sure the backers would have understood it. the tasteless simpletons like you are/were happy with the game anyhow because its pretty and everyone who wanted good gameplay would have understood and welcomed it just like we understand delays.

c) Fallout excelled at everything else but combat, it was a great game DESPITE its combat. not sure what your point is by bringing it up to compare with a game that has nothing but combat in terms of actual gameplay.

d) the pnp rules are most certainly better than the crap SRR has now but they would not not fit very well into a cRPG format ..... if you could read you d knew i wasnt even asking for them as i pretty clearly stated that "comming up with new mechanics for a computer game is okay in my book" ... aslong as it fits the background setting. and in SRRs case they simply dont fit as i pointed out .
i played HBS strikefleet omega android game out of curiosity on my smartphone and it really shows that whoever made SRR has his brain poisoned with developing those kind of games.
the only thing missing in SRR is spending money on credits to unlock more weapons to chose from.

there s one thing i agree with you though: it probably was "never meant to be anything but a light adventure cRPG reminiscent of the console games" and maybe people like me also have to blame themselves for not listening better and expecting a PC cRPG ...... so lets just excuse every shit game with "it was never meant to be good to begin with" and call it a day

 

[Trash]

What I'm wondering about is if the modding scene took off with this game? It always seemed to me as if the best content might be the fan made modules. Especially with over 20 years of pnp stuff to use.

Well, did some digging and it turns out that the modding scene didn't exactly take off on this one. Some of the mods that already started during alpha have just petered out, most of the biggest mods have died and most of the content wasn't that hot to begin with. At least a few big mods still seem to be ongoing though and there are a number of smaller modules around as well. Not dead, not exactly vibrant either. Kinda like the vanilla game I guess.

 

[Lhynn]

Yes but, as far as I know, with a half competent DM, you never end up failing and having to retry the EXACT same sequence of events in a PNP session.

Did it once, was kinda cool, dimensional hopping and time travel.

Well, OK, but in that case the time travel was used as an in-universe reason for repeating the same thing over right? Like how in Planescape you can't really die because you just end up back at Mortuary. Of course Planescape also had save-anywhere, so really there's no excuse not to take advantage of shit, like saving, that making an RPG for the PC allows.

Was joking orange, i know what you mean, i dislike save/load mechanics myself, but they are a necessary evil, for some games more than others.

 

[SwiftCrack]

What I'm wondering about is if the modding scene took off with this game? It always seemed to me as if the best content might be the fan made modules. Especially with over 20 years of pnp stuff to use.

Well, did some digging and it turns out that the modding scene didn't exactly take off on this one. Some of the mods that already started during alpha have just petered out, most of the biggest mods have died and most of the content wasn't that hot to begin with. At least a few big mods still seem to be ongoing though and there are a number of smaller modules around as well. Not dead, not exactly vibrant either. Kinda like the vanilla game I guess.

Big modders quit untill the saving patch is out afaik.

 

[DalekFlay]

More like until the expansion comes out and they see if they can make real RPGs with it now.

 

[Darth Roxor]

sup guises

Spoiler

how are you doin'

 

[Elwro]

DAT FONT

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Still won't even reach Avadon levels of complexity.

 

[WhiteGuts]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

 

[Excidium]

What