Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[imweasel]

Diarrhea is worse than chunky diarrhea in every way. And Draq loves the latter.

Contents of this thread.

 

[Mefi]

Except Morrowind wasn't developed with consoles in mind - it's evident when you take into account that some stuff had to be cut down to size in the expansions in XBox version. It was always meant to be a PC game designed as PC game only forking into consoles late in development.
If anything Morrowind was pretty explicit in what going for downscaled, detailed world instead of 1:!, but broad strokes one was going to mean for TES - it was something you could be understandably butthurt about, but not exactly just decline.

Quite.

Also, having skipped Oblivion you're not exactly qualified to compare it with Skyrim.

You should spot the part where I did that. Because otherwise, you know, it might be a bit retarded to go on this angle.

I don't recall single bethesda game not being a mess.

Most companies demonstrate some evidence of a learning curve.

You spent time downloading shitty mods you knew to be shitty so don't come back crying about that.

The strap ons are very well done. My main playthrough is, as I said, a 90 mod package which does lots of hacking away and I still think this game is shit.

How's your civil war going? Crashing due to overload, or are you console commanding your way around the bits the modders have managed to piece together? Let me know. I find your views exceptionally insightful. It didn't use to be the case someone who should have a dumbfuck tag got to 24k. Is your's on loan?

 

[Mefi]

Didn't want to hate it quite so much as I've come to over the past week. But there's more to an RPG than deciding which shade of puce my character's scar should be, and in terms of storytelling, in terms of character development, in terms of combat, in terms of dialogue, in terms of immersion... the OP nailed it in 2011.

Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way...

except graphically.

Try harder.

I don't even need to come up with anything, the joke writes itself

You mean the part of the OP which then actually discusses Skyrim in relation to Morrowind rather than Oblivion? Oh yeah. The joke is called 'reading is teh hardest'. It's a funny one.

 

[Turjan]

I did play Oblivion (thankfully I've never actually bought it - would still be kicking myself if I did) and know just how shit it was and why.

I guess you don't want to have the spare key I still have from that Gamersgate Bethesda Christmas Bundle then?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You mean the part of the OP which then actually discusses Skyrim in relation to Morrowind rather than Oblivion? Oh yeah. The joke is called 'reading is teh hardest'. It's a funny one.

Almost as funny as the one where the guy pretends that by "the OP nailed it", he really meant a specific part of the post and not the torrent of tryhard shit surrounding it.

 

[Mefi]

Almost as funny as the one where the guy pretends that by "the OP nailed it", he really meant a specific part of the post and not the torrent of tryhard shit surrounding it.

Jaysus, I can see why you were pumped for Oblivion Skyrim. Words are hard.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

"LOLOLO U MAD FANBOY? U MAD? U MAD?"

Ok...

Hey, just noticed the date of the OP. One day after the game came out.

 

[Mefi]

Nah, more 'lol you fucking moron - the qualifier is in the part of my post you quoted'.

 

[Cadmus]

Yes, and as I said, at the time this was amazing and nobody had put so much detail into the landscapes and environment. The thing is, the nature doesn't really need an art direction as it's trying to approach the highest possible graphical fidelity. That's of course the problem with the rest of the game because it fails at getting anything else than landscapes look good without any art direction.

But the hiking was a huge part of the game, you'd spend hours walking around in forests and looking at things, precisely because it was new.

Gothic 3 was released virtually at the same time, probably had a smaller budget and a smaller team. Most amazingly of all there are no loading zones to walk into a fucking one room house.

Yeah, I think Gothic had much better forest landscapes, the developers at least attempted to also make the maps vertical as opposed to Oblivion's flat planes.
But it was released shortly after Oblivion and when you take into consideration the fucking HIDEOUS desert areas, it doesn't look that much better. I'm strictly speaking about the nature environments here. I think Gothic 3's cities were amazing looking for example.

Well then, show me some preceding games with as pretty environment as Oblivion's.

First thing first - what do you mean by "pretty"?

Do you mean aesthetic, or technical aspects?
Because I can grant you that - oblivion looked new when it was new. It nevertheless didn't really look good - indiscriminate bloom, covering indiscriminate specular, veiling already insufficient resolution textures and bumpmaps plus blurry and 'dull' water reflections.

In that case HL2 would probably be a good counterpart. It's not "pretty" as it goes for different kind of aesthetics, but it's an opposite of Oblivion in the sense it actually strove to make the best of its tech and it shown.
If you wanted an open world game, you have STALKER, although it released later, partly due to development hell. Overall a much better looking game, also featuring dense vegetation and bumpmaps, but also having stuff like really accurate lighting.

If you mean just aesthetics, adjusting for older tech, then Morrowind already had Oblivion trounced soundly, before it even started development.

Sure they put some effort into making it look nice

Well, no.
Not spending even the amount of time required to come up with the idea that horses shouldn't have that plastic sheen pondering selectively applying specular doesn't qualify as effort. Neither does just copypasting the same shit over and over to cover 16 or whatever number it was square miles of the game. And that's what oblivion is - a huge copypasta of already bland content. Everything in this game, from minute aspects like application of given kind of special effect to entire geographical regions is antithesis of effort.
The only thing putting effort into oblivion was your comp sweating fucking solder over running this unoptimized turd.

OTOH Skyrim, while never exactly looking new, just oozes effort, at the very least in terms of visual design. Visually pleasing and, more importantly, distinct vistas dot the entire fucking place, and continue to look good with changing lighting or weather, even the dungeons, rightly criticized for their linearity, manage to remain distinct and memorable despite asset reuse.

they remade their shitty engine far more than they did for Skyrim.

Maybe that's because Skyrim had to run on the same antiquated Xbox "red ring of death" 360, genius?

All the more reason to compare them side by side without needing to account for tech progress and while some minute technical aspects, like character model polycount or light source placement are a step backwards (presumably for performance reasons - running a 2011 game on half a decade old hardware), overall the game just crushes oblivion.

I can only think of Gothic 2 as being a nice open world as Oblivion's but it's not as pretty looking (forests and meadows in Oblivion are better than Gothic's)

Better in what sense? Greener? In that case games on c64 had even more saturated colours.

The Dunmer in the screenshots is literally just a human with blue skin.

Have you ever seen a human?

We agree on the aesthetics part, finally.
Skyrim oozes the opposite of effort.
If they had put no effort into Oblivion, it would have looked like better Morrowind (which would have been maybe better, considering the art direction) same as Skyrim looks like better Oblivion.
But Oblivion looked like a completely new game with new assets, new effects (yeah, the bloom is overused and I might be wrong but I think at that time it had not been abused as much and it was pretty to see it for a while), completely new music, completely new horrible fucking character generator, etc. That game was released to be "the prettiest game to this day"

Effort in Skyrim would have been if they had scraped the fucking useless engine or at least heavily remade it so that you couldn't tell it's GameBryo from the very first released screenshot.
It would have been making new musical themes with new instruments instead of rehashing Oblivion's and Morrowinds. What they did was simply patch up GameBryo so that it wouldn't look TOO embarrassing. The texture resolution is fucking shit, the models and animations are fucking shit, it's all bland and soulless, and while that also applies to Oblivion, Oblivion had been a HUGE change from Morrowind, this is not a huge change from Oblivion.
And there are no fucking distinct vistas, maybe places that don't look as bland as everything else. Just look at Solitude, it looks pretty from the outside but inside it's the same stupid shit like Oblivion's towns. Except we have seen them already in Oblivion. That's not effort, they just put the city on a big rock and fail to do anything interesting with it. The architecture is a bland embarrassing mix of everything they could think of, effort would be to maybe hire someone who would give the towns style and direction. Hell, even Gothic 3's cities look better. Windhelm looks on par with Oblivion's towns, same as Riften or what was it called.

I think my point is that I wanted for Skyrim to be something new, exciting, prettier and better but we got the same old shit I was tired of playing years ago.

 

[theSavant]

So it's still the fucking Embryo engine? Fuck!! I initially thought they used another engine as I somewhen read a line like "brand new engine" - though the look always reminded me of Gamebryo. Fucking Embryo engine... I hated this engine since I heard its name.

 

[Cadmus]

Well, they say it's been totally reworked and they called it something else, but fuck me if it doesn't look and feel exactly like Oblivion's. The biggest change is that you can finally, after 4 games or so, run diagonally.

 

[Zewp]

Is Cadmus still beating that dead horse about Oblivion being better than Skyrim in even a single aspect? Oblivion does not look better than Skyrim. It looked like generic fantasy game #22767. Even the enemy designs were bland banal shit.

Skyrim's color palette might have been a bit dull, but it oozed more atmosphere than anything in Oblivion. Oblivion simply didn't have any atmosphere. For a game built on a modified Gamebryo engine, I was amazed at what they accomplished in Skyrim. There were some truly amazing sights to be had in Skyrim. Towns were a bit shit, but at least they were a massive improvement from Oblivion's towns whose only difference between towns was different color rooftops. Enemy designs were a lot better as was most of the weapon, armor, magic effects, building and fauna and flora designs. Overall, on an aesthetic level, Skyrim wins out over Oblivion in every single department.

So it's still the fucking Embryo engine? Fuck!! I initially thought they used another engine as I somewhen read a line like "brand new engine" - though the look always reminded me of Gamebryo. Fucking Embryo engine... I hated this engine since I heard its name.

That was a bullshit lie. The 'new' Creation Engine is nothing more than a heavily modified Gamebryo engine. Spending three seconds in either the game or the Creation kit is enough to make that very apparent.

Let's hope if they make another SP game after TESO, they ditch this piece of shit engine altogether.

 

[markec]

World of Oblivion looks like someone used random generated terrain and maxed out tree slider, and its dungeons are differently shuffled same five interior cells. There is not a single aspect of Oblivion that I thought that someone gave any effort in doing it.

tldr

Cadamus you are a moron.

 

[Cadmus]

Is Cadmus still beating that dead horse about Oblivion being better than Skyrim in even a single aspect? Oblivion does not look better than Skyrim. It looked like generic fantasy game #22767. Even the enemy designs were bland banal shit.

Skyrim's color palette might have been a bit dull, but it oozed more atmosphere than anything in Oblivion. Oblivion simply didn't have any atmosphere. For a game built on a modified Gamebryo engine, I was amazed at what they accomplished in Skyrim. There were some truly amazing sights to be had in Skyrim. Towns were a bit shit, but at least they were a massive improvement from Oblivion's towns whose only difference between towns was different color rooftops. Enemy designs were a lot better as was most of the weapon, armor, magic effects, building and fauna and flora designs. Overall, on an aesthetic level, Skyrim wins out over Oblivion in every single department.

So it's still the fucking Embryo engine? Fuck!! I initially thought they used another engine as I somewhen read a line like "brand new engine" - though the look always reminded me of Gamebryo. Fucking Embryo engine... I hated this engine since I heard its name.

That was a bullshit lie. The 'new' Creation Engine is nothing more than a heavily modified Gamebryo engine. Spending three seconds in either the game or the Creation kit is enough to make that very apparent.

Let's hope if they make another SP game after TESO, they ditch this piece of shit engine altogether.

Well, I'm continuing our nice conversation. And I disagree with your assessment of Skyrim's sights as "amazing" because to me, they were fucking bland.
My original point, if I remember correctly, was that Oblivion is here unfairly said have always been ugly, when at the time of its release, that wasn't true. I also can't fucking stomach Skyrim a minute longer, so I want to explain to you how fucking shitty, backwards and ugly it is. "truly amazing sights to be had" my ass. But funny is, that I bet the same things were being said about Oblivion at the time, only then they actually applied. We should have learned by now that slapping a fake looking myst onto plastic rocks doesn't make for an amazing sight. I don't understand all this bullshit about how "skyrim has improved so much, the graphics are better, it has soul, blablabla" it looks like fake cheap shit, and it did on the day it was released.

World of Oblivion looks like someone used random generated terrain and maxed out tree slider, and its dungeons are differently shuffled same five interior cells. There is not a single aspect of Oblivion that I thought that someone gave any effort in doing it.

tldr

Cadamus you are a moron.

It looks like it to the same extent as Skyrim does and I never said it was amazing, only I showed on some examples where this "effort" when compared to Skyrim can be found.

 

[Zewp]

If you think that of Skyrim then it makes no sense that you think Oblivion is any better. Oblivion did not look good at release to anyone except to visual and/or mentally impaired people.

Even the visual parts of Skyrim that received the least attention and effort received more than Oblivion did in its entirety.

 

[Cadmus]

Oblivion may not be better, unless you prefer green woods instead of bleak white rocky woods (which I'm starting to think I do) but to say that Skyrim has received more attention is nonsense. For oblivion they redesigned their fucking engine, made the (controversial) landscape at least presentable (as compared to Bloodmoons 2 meters tall christmas trees) while for Skyrim they changed the colour palette. Nobody put any effort into it besides making ads on skyscrapers.
Since I'm biased because I was only spoiled by the codex after Oblivion's release and had to painfully reevaluate my opinion of what at that time seemed to me like a fun gameplay, I will leniently admit that Oblivion's gameplay and art direction (which I'm at least pretty sure of) are shit, I can only repeat that too many of you are downplaying that AT THE TIME (and stop fucking misunderstanding me) the game's LANDSCAPES _AND_NATURE were GRAPHICALLY advanced and almost revolutionary AS_IN_NOBODY_HAD_CREATED_SUCH_A_PRETTY_FOREST_BEFORE (is it clear now?) and were a huge improvement over Morrowind's FORESTS (you remember those?) THUS IT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS that since Skyrim's LANDSCAPES_AND_GRAPHICAL_PRESENTATION is almost comparable to Oblivion's (with a 6 year gap between the games) nobody gave a flying shit about what the game was gonna look like.

My point being, by the contemporary standards, Oblivion had some things going for it which Skyrim doesn't. (pretty graphics in a hiking simulator). They both look interchangeably shitty today, so there's that.


By the way, you may laugh at the retardation that is the mudcrap conversation but the entire internet still keeps quoting ARROW TO THE KNEE AHUEHUA. Skyrim is also plenty dumb. I will not let go how stupid and unbelievable this game feels when compared to Morrowind. As they decreased the necessary abstraction in the mind of the player (you imagine the adventures and life in the city full of pixelated, standing still NPCS), they took it upon themselves to present a realistic feel to the game's world and failed so much the game makes me cringe when playing it. The battles, the dialogues, the animations, the emergent gameplay (and there is some only it looks infuriatingly retarded as I have described in my encounter with the wild life) it all looks so goddamn stupid. It's like playing a retard simulator.

 

[Broseph]

Ignored Cadmus.

 

[Lemming42]

It's like playing a retard simulator.

That's actually a wonderful description of both Oblivion and Skyrim.

 

[markec]

Oblivion may not be better, unless you prefer green woods instead of bleak white rocky woods (which I'm starting to think I do) but to say that Skyrim has received more attention is nonsense.

Only Skyrim has more going for it beside woods, every region has distinctive feel only problem is that vanilla Skyrim has shitty color palette so everything looks grey, that can be fixed easily by ENB mods that just slightly modify color.Oblivion has many mods that try to fix its woods problem like Unique Landscape and still doesnt help

For oblivion they redesigned their fucking engine, made the (controversial) landscape at least presentable (as compared to Bloodmoons 2 meters tall christmas trees)

This is bullshit, so Morrowind wasnt paved with same looking trees but it did have unique feel for every part of the island, you dont need map in Morrowind, just looking at the world 10 meters around you was enough to know where you are, unlike in Oblivion where everywhere you turn its just fucking trees.

while for Skyrim they changed the colour palette. Nobody put any effort into it besides making ads on skyscrapers.

Skyrim is far from perfect but its regions are unique in design and only by that it surpasses Oblivion by a mile.

Since I'm biased because I was only spoiled by the codex after Oblivion's release and had to painfully reevaluate my opinion of what at that time seemed to me like a fun gameplay, I will leniently admit that Oblivion's gameplay and art direction (which I'm at least pretty sure of) are shit, I can only repeat that too many of you are downplaying that AT THE TIME (and stop fucking misunderstanding me) the game's LANDSCAPES _AND_NATURE were GRAPHICALLY advanced and almost revolutionary AS_IN_NOBODY_HAD_CREATED_SUCH_A_PRETTY_FOREST_BEFORE (is it clear now?) and were a huge improvement over Morrowind's FORESTS (you remember those?) THUS IT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS that since Skyrim's LANDSCAPES_AND_GRAPHICAL_PRESENTATION is almost comparable to Oblivion's (with a 6 year gap between the games) nobody gave a flying shit about what the game was gonna look like.

I hope loverslab make a mod for you called Tree Fucker since you love trees so much. Look at Gothic 1 and 2 and Morrowind, maybe their tree and landscape textures were not on par to Oblivions but what matters is how you create a world and their worlds feel alive. Not to mention Gothic 3 that looked 10 times better then Oblivion, because it both looked great and felt great.

My point being, by the contemporary standards, Oblivion had some things going for it which Skyrim doesn't. (pretty graphics in a hiking simulator). They both look interchangeably shitty today, so there's that.

There is nothing that Oblivion does remotely better then Skyrim, anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron,

By the way, you may laugh at the retardation that is the mudcrap conversation but the entire internet still keeps quoting ARROW TO THE KNEE AHUEHUA. Skyrim is also plenty dumb. I will not let go how stupid and unbelievable this game feels when compared to Morrowind. As they decreased the necessary abstraction in the mind of the player (you imagine the adventures and life in the city full of pixelated, standing still NPCS), they took it upon themselves to present a realistic feel to the game's world and failed so much the game makes me cringe when playing it. The battles, the dialogues, the animations, the emergent gameplay (and there is some only it looks infuriatingly retarded as I have described in my encounter with the wild life) it all looks so goddamn stupid. It's like playing a retard simulator.

No sane person will say that Skyrim is smart game and its more then plenty dumb, if it werent for Requiem I wouldnt even play it. But in comparison to Oblivion its a masterpiece.



tldr

Cadamus you are a moron.

 

[Zewp]

This

No sane person will say that Skyrim is smart game and its more then plenty dumb, if it werent for Requiem I wouldnt even play it.

this

But in comparison to Oblivion its a masterpiece.

and this.

Cadamus you are a moron.

Gothic 2 did forests much better years before Oblivion even saw the light. Oblivion's forests barely even felt like forests.

 

[Cadmus]

Oblivion may not be better, unless you prefer green woods instead of bleak white rocky woods (which I'm starting to think I do) but to say that Skyrim has received more attention is nonsense.

Only Skyrim has more going for it beside woods, every region has distinctive feel only problem is that vanilla Skyrim has shitty color palette so everything looks grey, that can be fixed easily by ENB mods that just slightly modify color.Oblivion has many mods that try to fix its woods problem like Unique Landscape and still doesnt help

For oblivion they redesigned their fucking engine, made the (controversial) landscape at least presentable (as compared to Bloodmoons 2 meters tall christmas trees)

This is bullshit, so Morrowind wasnt paved with same looking trees but it did have unique feel for every part of the island, you dont need map in Morrowind, just looking at the world 10 meters around you was enough to know where you are, unlike in Oblivion where everywhere you turn its just fucking trees.

while for Skyrim they changed the colour palette. Nobody put any effort into it besides making ads on skyscrapers.

Skyrim is far from perfect but its regions are unique in design and only by that it surpasses Oblivion by a mile.

Since I'm biased because I was only spoiled by the codex after Oblivion's release and had to painfully reevaluate my opinion of what at that time seemed to me like a fun gameplay, I will leniently admit that Oblivion's gameplay and art direction (which I'm at least pretty sure of) are shit, I can only repeat that too many of you are downplaying that AT THE TIME (and stop fucking misunderstanding me) the game's LANDSCAPES _AND_NATURE were GRAPHICALLY advanced and almost revolutionary AS_IN_NOBODY_HAD_CREATED_SUCH_A_PRETTY_FOREST_BEFORE (is it clear now?) and were a huge improvement over Morrowind's FORESTS (you remember those?) THUS IT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS that since Skyrim's LANDSCAPES_AND_GRAPHICAL_PRESENTATION is almost comparable to Oblivion's (with a 6 year gap between the games) nobody gave a flying shit about what the game was gonna look like.

I hope loverslab make a mod for you called Tree Fucker since you love trees so much. Look at Gothic 1 and 2 and Morrowind, maybe their tree and landscape textures were not on par to Oblivions but what matters is how you create a world and their worlds feel alive. Not to mention Gothic 3 that looked 10 times better then Oblivion, because it both looked great and felt great.

My point being, by the contemporary standards, Oblivion had some things going for it which Skyrim doesn't. (pretty graphics in a hiking simulator). They both look interchangeably shitty today, so there's that.

There is nothing that Oblivion does remotely better then Skyrim, anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron,

Yes, I would love a tree fucker mod...

I used some of the Unique Landscapes, they were great, but too few and too small, yes. I don't see how this mod and similar mods are any worse than what you could possibly do with Skyrim though.
In Skyrim, there's only snow and different shades of brown for each region, if I take your hyperbole approach. Skyrim is pretty fucking far from perfect, because it's bland and boring.
Gothic 3 didn't look 10 times better if you actually played it for a long time, it was repetitive as fuck and with little variations in the regions. I didn't get to the "ice area" because I quit in the stupid fucking desert where there was literally nothing (amazing desert simulation, similar to KOTOR's if I recall correctly). It was maybe better, but not by much.

Gothic 1 and 2 were amazing but they felt kinda claustrophobic when they tried to present a big area. Hey, Operation Flashpoint also had nice environments now that I think about it.

I don't think I ever said Oblivion was a better game, but Skyrim surely isn't better either especially as it barely improves on some of the aspects while lagging 6 years behind in the technical department and I was talking about judging the games from the contemporary view.

How do you separate quotes without having to delete/copy the /QUOTE thing =/
And fuck you too...

 

[Lemming42]

How do you separate quotes without having to delete/copy the /QUOTE thing =/

Just click "reply" multiple times and then single out the part you want. There's probably some hidden better way but I'm pretty sure that's just how everyone does it.

 

[roll-a-die]

How do you separate quotes without having to delete/copy the /QUOTE thing =/

Just click "reply" multiple times and then single out the part you want. There's probably some hidden better way but I'm pretty sure that's just how everyone does it.

I just manually insert quote tabs in the middle of the post.


Like

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[Utgard-Loki]

i almost installed oblivion to take a few SUPERHIGHRES PICTURES because i can't find any on google that are not blatantly staged to show you all how fucking wrong cadmus is, but then tears welled up in my eyes making me unable to see and click the magnet link. anyway, here's an artists depiction of a typical oblivion forest scene:

Spoiler

 

[Zewp]

It even hurts your eyes if you look at it for more than a few seconds, just like Oblivion did.