Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[AngryEddy]

Why not just combine athletics and acrobatics?

 

[Topher]

Convoluted? jesus christ its 2 tweaks. I think that has to be one of the most offensive comments i have read, sounds like it came from a dev. instead of a cRPG enthusiast.

Haha... and will you make similar changes to every flawed skill in the game. After all, that particular tweak won't address the problems with the other skills; will new tweaks need to be applied to every skill? Jumping, casting, etc...?

That design is nothing but a pile of exceptions to a rule. It's amature at best, an utter mess at worst and does nothing to address the underlying issue. It's convoluted and by the time you're finished patching up the system players will be subject to more exception than rules.

Design should be consistent, not a patchwork of fixes.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yup. The whole system is degenerate and I'm not sure why you'd want to try and salvage it, especially with "fixes" that are just ways of circumventing the shit.

 

[Cadmus]

Acrobatics was completely retarded. It's a pretty basic rule that a game shouldn't force you to grind by doing something that both looks retarded in-game and pisses you off while doing it.

IMO it just needs other base actions associated with it, like dodge/roll/sidestep or something. Then adjust gains by action difficulty. Oblivion had dodge but it required 50 in acrobatics, should be lower or just remove the requirement altogether and change the effectiveness of dodge based on skill. I'm sure there are other acrobatic combat moves other than dodging (that wouldn't necessary look too lulzy) but it would need a really improved combat system rather than the 'dual-wield anything' bs they pushed for Skyrim.

It shouldn't be trained by use. Seriously, you want to have this voice in the back of your mind telling you to roll/bunny jump everywhere you go cuz it gives you xp?

 

[imweasel]

This guy is spot on. http://4chandata.org/v/why-do-we-hate-skyrim-a335548

Anonymous 2013-01-20 19:57:11 No.172360367

[Missing image file: dungeons.jpg]
Combat is terrible. Stealth breaks the game. Magic is weak as shit and not nearly as interesting as it was in orrowind. Fighting is simplistic and underwhelming.

Bugs fucking everywhere, I did all quests 6 months ago and finished with 12 bugged items stuck on my inventory and 2 buggest quest logs.

Alchemy+enchanting+smithing breaks the game.

99% of the quests are terribly written, boring trite.

99% of the dungeons are copypasted linear shit (pic related), be it dwemer/falmer/cave/draurg. The one good dungeon is Blackreach but I saved the main quest for last and already hated the game by then.

LEVEL SCALING. ITEM LEVEL SCALING. No loot is ever better than what you can craft.

Easy as shit, even on master, to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Terrible graphics.

Tiny cities break the suspension of disbelief.

Generic orchestral and "epic" OST.

Terrible voice acting, the same 5 voice actors voicing 80 characters each. Bad dialogue to go with it.

Console-oriented. The UI is optimized for consoles and easily the worst UI in an AAA game ever.

The story is retarded, as mentioned above. In consequence of this, I hated every single faction in the game.

Add to that the fact that you can become the master of every faction after doing 3, 4 quest with them. And you can join all of them at the same time. The Dovahkiin is the Ultimate Mary Sue. No, we don't like it.

Followers are stupid broken and often don't obey commands or always attack with their weakest attacks even if you edit the game and give them stronger attacks.

Fighting dragons for the billionth time is a chore.

Nothing you do ever impacts the story. Become faction leader? No one knows about it. Save the world from dragons? No one even mentions it. Kill the Emperor of Tamriel in-game? Everyone is still talking about the death of the king of Skyrim's scripted death months before.

Shit enemy AI and enemy variety.

BUGS FUCKING EVERYWHERE needed to mention it again.

The list is far from complete though, Skyrim has much more shit than that to offer.

 

[DalekFlay]

If you use WASD for the menus they work surprisingly well. It's only if you treat it like a mouse UI that the whole thing is utter and complete shit. Not sure "avoid the mouse" is defending a PC game, but just saying...

And graphics complaints are retarded.

 

[Cadmus]

If you use WASD for the menus they work surprisingly well. It's only if you treat it like a mouse UI that the whole thing is utter and complete shit. Not sure "avoid the mouse" is defending a PC game, but just saying...

And graphics complaints are retarded.

It's tons of button mashing anyways, imo plus some keys don't work sometimes if I remember correctly. The UI is really horrible there's no way to defend it.

I still think Skyrim's graphics are utter shit. Unexciting at the very least in a game about looking around at supposedly pretty vistas.

 

[DalekFlay]

I still think Skyrim's graphics are utter shit. Unexciting at the very least in a game about looking around at supposedly pretty vistas.

That's design, not graphics. Also I thought the design was good. The world felt cold, the cities felt unique and Nordish, the wilderness felt larger and more isolated than it was. Even the dragons managed to look unique and interesting, despite being flying cliches. Not sure what else you could ask for on the design front, honestly.

 

[Cadmus]

I still think Skyrim's graphics are utter shit. Unexciting at the very least in a game about looking around at supposedly pretty vistas.

That's design, not graphics. Also I thought the design was good. The world felt cold, the cities felt unique and Nordish, the wilderness felt larger and more isolated than it was. Even the dragons managed to look unique and interesting, despite being flying cliches. Not sure what else you could ask for on the design front, honestly.

Well, firstly I think the dragons are really too much of a cliche and unexciting. They just look generic. I wouldn't call them unique and interesting. When I think dragon, it's either something like this:

Look how majestic it is, it's incredibly huge but not full of stupid horns and spikes. Yes, it is a beautiful one of a kind picture but that's exactly what dragons should be. It's actually pretty close to Skyrim's design except it doesn't feel like pest. Dragons should be creature of awe, not crawling and flying lizards.

Or I think of something completely fucked up and crazy with an artistic license. Skyrim's dragons are just pest trying to look cool by adding stabby and poky parts on them.

Secondly, (sorry I'm now in the process of playing PST so I gotta bring it up) I like magical effects in PST much better than in Skyrim. Spells should look cool, warm, naturalistic, organic and unique, but Skyrim's (as well as Oblivion's and Morrowind's) spell effects are so boring and plastic, I don't think I ever had that "Oh I got a new spell, I must see what it looks like" feeling.

The game does a better job than Oblivion at looking gritty but it's not really gritty. It feels plastic, things don't have a weight and texture to them, I guess mostly thanks to that stupid fucking Gamebryo.

The wilderness ..well, I can't help but compare it to The Witcher 2 wilderness which looked about 10 times more organic and exciting.

 

[DalekFlay]

Well neither Witcher game was open world, so hard to compare there. Witcher 2's forest looked amazing but they only had to make a small section of it. Once Witcher 3 comes out we can compare their stuff with Bethesda stuff in more accurate fashion. Also Witcher 2 had plenty of boring stone streets and caves. It's hard to make these games look consistently great. Even the 2D classics people rave about on here had their fair share of copycat towns and endless bland caves.

In the end my main point is I don't see graphics or design as a weak point of Skyrim. Of Oblivion yes, which looked about as bland as possible and had lighting that felt like radiation. Skyrim? It has flaws sure but I find its look an overall positive.

 

[Cadmus]

Well neither Witcher game was open world, so hard to compare there. Witcher 2's forest looked amazing but they only had to make a small section of it. Once Witcher 3 comes out we can compare their stuff with Bethesda stuff in more accurate fashion. Also Witcher 2 had plenty of boring stone streets and caves. It's hard to make these games look consistently great. Even the 2D classics people rave about on here had their fair share of copycat towns and endless bland caves.

In the end my main point is I don't see graphics or design as a weak point of Skyrim. Of Oblivion yes, which looked about as bland as possible and had lighting that felt like radiation. Skyrim? It has flaws sure but I find its look an overall positive.

I don't really much care whether or not the comparison is fair in this case, because they both serve the same purpose - be pretty to look at and wander in.

We just have to agree that it's a matter of opinion if it's looking good enough or not. The game surely has worse problems.

 

[RK47]

Yeah, the Leviathan boss fight in Witcher 2 is definitely better than Skyrim Dragons by a mile.

 

[Zewp]

Cadmus is nitpicking, then using his nitpicking to bash and blow everything out of proportion. It's common codex newfag behavior. When you start here, everything is the worst thing in the world and nothing is redeemable, but then eventually you calm down and realise KKK isn't that important after all. I did the exact same when I started on the Codex.

Skyrim's visuals are far from the worst we've seen in recent years. In fact, I'd even say it's one of the better looking games from the past few years. If I had to criticize it, it would be because the graphics were a bit dated for the time they were released in and texture quality is a bit low here and there. It's certainly not a bad-looking game by a long shot.

 

[Cadmus]

Cadmus is nitpicking, then using his nitpicking to bash and blow everything out of proportion. It's common codex newfag behavior. When you start here, everything is the worst thing in the world and nothing is redeemable, but then eventually you calm down and realise KKK isn't that important after all. I did the exact same when I started on the Codex.

Skyrim's visuals are far from the worst we've seen in recent years. In fact, I'd even say it's one of the better looking games from the past few years. If I had to criticize it, it would be because the graphics were a bit dated for the time they were released in and texture quality is a bit low here and there.

Hmm. There's no defense against such accusation, the only thing I can say is that I thought this before I started reading the codex. I just very much dislike Skyrim. And fuck you, really. If I wanted KKK I would have said Skyrim is good for what it is blahblah mod it till you like it blablablah.

 

[RK47]

I like Skyrim a lot once Requiem tweaks are done.
I never seen much of an issue over graphics. They're serviceable.
I just want a game that's fun and combat that actually rewards some kind of preparation before hand - not the scaled bullshit we're treated to in Oblivion. There is scaling, but mods like Requiem addressed it in pretty satisfying manner, in fact I'm getting the itch to try a warrior build now that things have gotten too easy for my Crossbow Assassin.
There are a lot of flaws, but to look at the title of this thread, it seems like Skyrim has completely failed to surpass Oblivion's meager standards - that is simply not true.
I'm glad I bought the game. Hundreds of hours of fun.

 

[dextermorgan]

I'm glad I bought the game. Hundreds of hours of fun.

You should be ashamed for giving money to Bethesda. This is completely unrelated to whether Skyrim is a good game or not.

 

[RK47]

Yeah shamefur. Absolutely.
Paying for games is definitely the wrong thing to do.
I knew I did the right thing when I pirated Dishonored. Will never make the same mistake again.
Quit grasping at straws. Meet me in Soulstorm if you dare, worshipper of the false emperor.

 

[DalekFlay]

Bethesda contracting Obsidian to make a proper Fallout 2 sequel, hiring Harvey Smith to make a real Deus Ex/Thief hybrid game and improving on Oblivion tenfold when making Skyrim are things to be rewarded. If you have a super tight asshole about money wait for a Steam sale, sure, but reward them nonetheless. The whole "piracy as a statement" thing only works if you eventually give in and admit some things are worth a few bucks.

 

[Lhynn]

Convoluted? jesus christ its 2 tweaks. I think that has to be one of the most offensive comments i have read, sounds like it came from a dev. instead of a cRPG enthusiast.

Haha... and will you make similar changes to every flawed skill in the game. After all, that particular tweak won't address the problems with the other skills; will new tweaks need to be applied to every skill? Jumping, casting, etc...?

That design is nothing but a pile of exceptions to a rule. It's amateur at best, an utter mess at worst and does nothing to address the underlying issue. It's convoluted and by the time you're finished patching up the system players will be subject to more exception than rules.

Design should be consistent, not a patchwork of fixes.

The system is the same in skyrim, just less skills. And it works alright i guess.
It is not by any means a broken system, its a perfectly workable one that needs tweaks. Plus who gives a shit if it has tons of exceptions as long as it works?

Cadmus irl doing athletic shit repeatedly makes you an athletic guy, yet not everyone bothers with it. TES only looks to imitate it, and it cant be held accountable for the behavior of their OCD players.

 

[imweasel]

If everybody pirated Bethesda's games, then they would go bankrupt and Obsidian could pick up the Fallout IP. And that is a good thing.

I'd rather help to cleanse the Fallout series of Todd Howard's filth than give Bethestard any money. They would just use my cash to make even more shitty games anyway.

 

[Cadmus]

Cadmus irl doing athletic shit repeatedly makes you an athletic guy, yet not everyone bothers with it. TES only looks to imitate it, and it cant be held accountable for the behavior of their OCD players.

That's not a good comparison. Nobody in real life goes through every open house to steal and sell every fork and bowl to get rich yet many games heavily encourage such behavior. The game can be held accountable for requiring OCD behavior as a legitimate gameplay strategy if you actually want to get those statistics high. If you shouldn't want to get them high, why the fuck are they even in there? What the fuck you gonna do if you want good acrobatics in Morrowind? Either train it or bunny jump like a retard. Is bunny jumping like a retard fun to you? It's not to me. There's no fucking way you get the skill to any reasonable level while behaving "normally" ingame. Therefore I don't see why couldn't it be handled in a better way.
A) make it a perk (the laziest way, but can be salvaged by having the base jumping feel inadequate, but then again why the fuck you'd do that?)
B) make it only be possible to upgrade with a buyable training (while keeping the base jump usable AND while providing plenty of opportunity to use the upgraded jump)
C) make it only dependent on a governing stat - this seems the best solution, while not requiring retarded behavior you are also given an opportunity to upgrade your character and support your playstyle (which is uuh, I guess man-who-jumps-on-rocks-to-not-get-killed-by-angry-boars)

 

[Perkel]

If Betsheda would be broke then they would sell Fallout IP to Acti or EA for XX mln of $$$ not to Obsidian which doesn't even have money to not lay off people from time to time if one of their project gets cancelled or fails.

If for example South Park would be financially failure i am pretty sure they would lay off a lot of people.


Let's hope Kickstarter free money will get them enough breathing room to not rely on shitty deals such as FNV deal was and possibly in near future thanks to again free money and all royalties earned from game to improve their games quality

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Hmm. There's no defense against such accusation, the only thing I can say is that I thought this before I started reading the codex. I just very much dislike Skyrim. And fuck you, really. If I wanted KKK I would have said Skyrim is good for what it is blahblah mod it till you like it blablablah.

Lol, okay Mr. "I really hate Skyrim, but PST - which I'm currently replaying! - now that was some good shit. The spells were organic, fluid, natural. If Torment's spells sang the blues, you'd listen".

irl doing athletic shit repeatedly makes you an athletic guy, yet not everyone bothers with it. TES only looks to imitate it, and it cant be held accountable for the behavior of their OCD players.

Yes it can, because it encourages said OCD behavior.

 

[Cadmus]

Hmm. There's no defense against such accusation, the only thing I can say is that I thought this before I started reading the codex. I just very much dislike Skyrim. And fuck you, really. If I wanted KKK I would have said Skyrim is good for what it is blahblah mod it till you like it blablablah.

Lol, okay Mr. "I really hate Skyrim, but PST - which I'm currently replaying! - now that was some good shit. The spells were organic, fluid, natural. If Torment's spells sang the blues, you'd listen".

irl doing athletic shit repeatedly makes you an athletic guy, yet not everyone bothers with it. TES only looks to imitate it, and it cant be held accountable for the behavior of their OCD players.

Yes it can, because it encourages said OCD behavior.

Geez, go suck a cock. I'm not even replaying PST, I'm playing it for the first time so it's fresh in my memory and I like the spell effects, that's why I mentioned it. And it's old so it appropriately demonstrates what could have been if Bethesda even slightly gave a shit. What the fuck should I say? Is it better to compare the spell effects to an anonymous example as not to fill up your faggot rage meter? what the fuck?

I'm still utterly confused by that sentence from the witcher review. I understand why you're making fun of it but at the same time I think it's a nice way to say what the guy was trying to say.

 

[Somberlain]

Anonymous 2013-01-20 19:57:11 No.172360367

Add to that the fact that you can become the master of every faction after doing 3, 4 quest with them. And you can join all of them at the same time. The Dovahkiin is the Ultimate Mary Sue.

No, we don't like it.

He is clearly not aware of the "forced replay value" in New Vegas!