So, anyone playing Heroes of Newerth?

[Dr.Faust]

Earcly access is shit and S2 is jew. Nome needs to be shot and Maliken hanged, drawn and quartered.

Still, until Dota 2 comes there is no better alternative for this pile of fecal matter.

 

[Padre]

See, I post in this forum and in this topic specifically to avoid 12year old kids with anger management problem.

I really don't give a fuck about EA, monkey king seems fun but not really powerful.

And yeah call s2 jew for wanting to make money. How fucking dare they. A company who wants money? Unheard of. Everytime I hear about dota2 and how incredibly amazing it will be I can't stop smiling. Unless a miracle happens those retards are in for one huge dissapointment. Funny how Valve gonna lock and ban their account if they ever dared to post shit topics like they do on s2 forums.

 

[Markman]

Well, with 4+ million accounts and rising it doesnt seem its gonna die soon.Call em jews or whatever but more and more people are playing their game. Forums are damn negative though, 1 out of 20 threads are about gameplay, heroes and so on. Rest is all bitching and trolling.

I hope S2 is developing a new game, would love to see Savage 3 or new IP in the works. Time to move on.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, I'm sure nobody would bitch if 'early access' to broken new weapons were added to a FPS, or broken new teams for bloodbowl, or extra units in starcraft...

The only reason he doesn't seem broken is because most of the people picking him up are retards that don't know what the shift button does and don't want to 'waste' gold on a shrunken head. He's easily in the top 5 heroes in the pool right now if played by someone with a brain.

Even if he were only an average hero, an advantage is an advantage. An extra 30, 300, or 3000 gold at the start of the game doesn't automatically give you a win either, would that be ok too? Arguing over the degree of advantage is retarded, they can always increase the degree when it's not making enough money.

And people who already bought the game don't give a fuck about all the new players because they aren't playing the same game. They're playing in their own little sealed bracket with a shit hero pool. (It's actually possible to set up a public game which bans all but 3 of the heroes they can pick right now, then pick the remaining 3 for your own team quickly, so you have no opponents.) Doesn't make my games happen any faster, or give me better teamates. Just adds some server lag.

 

[Padre]

http://www.dotallyrad.com/

2 pics from DOTA2. Looks pretty lol'ish, those bars on the hp bar are meh. Would need to see it in acton to make any judgement but so far it has this weird 'cheap' vibe. Maybe so that the pinoys can actually play the game on their wooden pcs.

 

[Zed]

TBH I'd rather take pastel-style backgrounds than the unserious hillbilly/discoinferno/orly-owl/meme-shit that has come from S2 lately. Although those things are pretty fun to troll people with.

I think the health bars look good. For every 200 health you get a black line in your health bar, so if someone has a lot of hp you can see it by simply looking at the health bar.

Skills have clear indication of manacost and skill-level.
The hero level indicator is stupid (white number on yellow? lolwut). I assume the bar right to it is the exp bar although it's empty in both screenshots.

The detail overall seems pretty good. On the interface-side there might be a little too much clutter but nothing worse than HoN (don't remember LoL but I would never play that anyway).

To me it doesn't look cheap. Not more so than any other DotA game. If it can run on older computer than that's just good.

 

[Padre]

In LoL you can minimize your UI but it's really nothing outstanding.

I don't like the health bars maybe because they remind me of LoL, in WC3 or HoN you gotta click a hero to know his hp/mp pool. I'm just used to it I suppose.

To me it's not the clutter that is the problem, it's the empty grey spaces which could have been used for something. I use the bottom bars for ally item/skill cd along with hp/mp.

Also notice they have apparently removed damage spread and possibly (?) armour is now counted in integer values. SF has 2 and DB has 0 armour. I think it should display the whole number. Then there are those 6 slots for abilities. Last two being summoner spells ? :D

But seriously, dunno what's the problem with Discoinferno. Ability looks cool, has an amazing sound to it and generally this hero is perfect in every way. Not too strong, not too weak. Fun to play.

I hope DOTA2 will run decently on an old computer. Otherwise might just skip it.

 

[Wulfstand]

http://www.twitch.tv/clanlntc
Man, I've been watching these guys for over a year now, and I gotta say they're some of my favorite streamers. I generally hate streams, especially HoN streams, since they somehow manage to make it seem so fucking boring, but these guys, man... I've laughed so hard so many times while watching them.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcsz1iZ0eKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ENl2FNz ... er&list=UL

 

[Padre]

For more lulz, go to http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showforum=3311 and search for games casted by Sunsfan. He and his mates are just too funny

 

[Damned Registrations]

6 abilities is because shadowfiend has 6 abilities, derp.

Latest heroes added are broken. If you can't figure out at least 3 reasons why MoA is overpowered, you deserve to be beaten with a stick, and while Rhapsody is more subtle, she's pretty overpowered as well. People keep comparing her ult to Jeraziah's; but Jeraziah's can be purged and only affects physical damage. Her disco spell is enough to let you creep cut like legionaire can with a hero, only using any heroes you want. Nevermind what it does to creepstacks or pushes in general, or team fights.

 

[Padre]

Disco is good yeah but remember you gotta stay still to take effect. Jera's ult can be purged, but usually you only have 1 nullfire so that's one target purged. She on the other hand must remain in place, channel the ult and the radius is not really big. And you can just stun or ministun her to stop it. Her aura is where is at. That spell vamp is kinda sexy combiner with torturer.

And I like how people always cry that something is op before thinking how to counter it. MoA seems fairly strong yeah but I have yet to see him totally take over a game. He is made of tissue paper and should be treated as such. Say hello to a blink pebbles killing you everytime unless you go for Steamboots + 2xBracers early game which alone is 2500 gold down the drain just so he can't one shot you.

Besides overpowered or not, I like new heroes strong. That way you guarantee that they will see play time for a long period of time and get tested. You can always nerf them and new heroes are automatically banned in every tournament. For us, we have BD,BP to take care of that.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I haven't seen him taking over games either, but only because morons have been playing him. I HAVE seen him use his ult to shrug off a gank attempt by Fayde like it was nothing though. That was pretty lulzy.

You simply can't argue the mechanics. 12 attacks at ~500% attack speed is broken. It's triple what scout can do, and it's done from range. Try this out in practice mode: Steamboots, savage mace, level 9. 4/0/4/1 for skills. Load up say, moonqueen with steamboots, whispering helm and shrunken head. Fire stun, switch modes, ult, rightclick, enjoy delicious free kill. At worst you'll need to switch back to long range mode for the last shot. Throw on a nullfire, brutalizer, or lightning hammer for even more retarded damage and procs.

 

[Padre]

All fine and dandy but you forgot to mention scout has a build in crit with a disarm which Moa doesn't have. Also, he gets 400 attack speed and -50% damage. Of course procs are awesome on him. But your example is flawed. MQ can just press R and kill him in 2 seconds flat. Also, every high tier game I watched with MoA in it, everybody went for his Q and W because they think E is worthless early game. His damage and attack animation suck at the start. And btw, Scout with savage mace at lvl 9 will do more damage. So will Madman with 0/0/4/1 build at this lvl.

His skills are awesome, I agree. But you have to see the whole picture. His starting str and str gain are garbage, his mana pool is garbage. You have to cover these before you can try to farm those late game items. Items which leave you with 1k hp at lvl 12-16. You are food for any hero with burst. His ult can save him sure, but it's costly and it requires him not to be stunned to oblivion. And let's be honest, gankers tend to have a good old stun to catch those pesky carries.

I don't argue he doesn't need one nerf or another. Thing is, I'm tired of people who scream OP OP whenever a new hero gets released. I don't even know where he belongs right now. Testie played him a couple of times mid and generally failed because he was there against some better mid heroes. Don't know how he would fare in a trilane, never seen that before. We will have to wait and see.

 

[Damned Registrations]

His Str isn't any worse than magebane or sillhoutte or emerald warden, and none of them get a free 250 hp at level 6. (Or a two second stun, which certainly beats the shit out of disarm, let alone anything a ranged agi hero should have.) Scout and magebane aren't going to be doing any more damage when they get stunned on approach. Scout can't farm the jungle with a savage mace since he needs the hp/mana regen- MoA doesn't because he can just kite the creeps. His mana and Hp pools are irrelevant, because those are by far the cheapest stats to add in the game, and he's a ranged hero, so he doesn't need to use either to safely farm or get kills. Only retards run low on mana with him because they spam his split shot on creeps because it looks cool. The fact that you have to compare him to melee heroes with 3 second steroid skills to approach his level of damage is insane. How about comparing him to another ranged carry with a disable instead, like Puppetmaster? Oh no, puppetmaster will have a whopping 38 extra hp at level 10 over MoA. That totally makes up for the 500% attack speed, global ultimate, superior farming, scaling, last hitting, pushing and chasing abilities. And it'll multiply to 76 extra hp by level 20! That's like, almost 5% of either hero's hp total. Holy fuck! It'll take an extra third of a second to fire off the additional shot required to do that much damage.

Your argument is akin to saying behemoth isn't a very good hero because you've seen people use fissure to save enemies before. Of course he's not overpowered in the hands of a retard; nothing is. Fucking morons can't even use broken ass keeper to do anything but rush attack speed items and pretend to carry. Warden and Parasite and Revenant and Drunken Master are all garbage compared to the EA heroes. The only reason Rhapsody slipped through is the morons didn't realize how overpowered she'd be or they don't give a fuck as long as it's overpowered and good at pushing.

 

[Padre]

Wait, did you just compare MoA to PM? Because imo PM beats MoA in about everything. He can farm faster than MoA, his steroid is more powerful, not because of procs but because of sheer damage and 2x damage. In a 1vs1 match up PM will win this duel every time I think. Remember puppet can disable you for a long long time and with shroud he can 2 shot almost any hero.

Magebane has one of the best escape mechanism in the game, Sil has 2 escape mechanisms and a situational stun.

But really, we are just theorycrafting here. Right now he has 46% win rate. Rhapsody has almost 50%. I think we will have to wait and see what pros do with him but it will take another 3 weeks to check out.

I don't really like Warden and DM but Revenant and Parasite are great heroes to stomp wth, especially in CM mode where a fast lvl advantage on Parasite leads to him snowballing into mid game like a one scary motherfucker.

 

[Padre]

- Healing radius of the Wells increased to better match the actual water
- Tree of Life and Sacrifical Shrine now have truesight
- All teams now start with a basic Ground Courier by default
- Bottle is no longer refilled when held by a Courier
- Shieldbreaker: Increased damage by 10 per level from 30/45/60 to 40/55/70 and ignore's the target's Deflection when you attack them
* Deflection is the damage blocked by items like Helm of the Black Legion and Iron Shield
- Alchemist Bones' timer is now paused while the hero is dead


So what do you guys think about this patch? Since I'm often ward hoe for the team I'm really happy about the courier change. And shieldbreaker finally will be a viable orb.

 

[Zed]

I think that the courier should be an investment and that it should be able to refill bottle at well.
If they keep this change, they should increase CD on wards as well as the max stack in stores (to two or something).

I think all item cooldowns should continue when dead so I don't like the pause on Midas.

 

[Padre]

Well this cd on midas is for those ricers who don't come to teamfights, die due to ganks and still top gpm charts. Really hated that. With this change they want midas to be more of a secondary gold supply than your main source of income so to say.

Bottle ferrying was broken and abused imo. Some heroes would be impossible to beat in mid due to that. Think about TB and his unlimited mana, you really can't do much to outharass him.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I don't care about midas because it's a shitty item anyways. It would need to build into something useful or have a much higher effective GPM bonus to be viable.

Change to shieldbreaker is retarded, as the item was already OP. The only reason people weren't getting it is lack of understanding game mechanics, baddie supports not gettings sols, and games not lasting long enough for it to matter. Going to widen the gulf between melee and ranged heroes, since it's better on ranged heroes, who can afford to have less survivability through better positioning, and farm jungle by kiting without lifesteal. And makes the already sub par HotBL completely trash, even on melee heroes.

Courier should have been made more expensive, not less. It's already an automatic buy. Will help people trapped in MMR hell though.

Bottle ferrying doesn't matter too much to me. Probably a necessary change with the free courier; but generally speaking if you have rune control it's completely unnecessary. If you don't have rune control, you're trading use of the courier for staying in lane for xp while the other guy ganks with DD/Haste/Invis and yuour bottle sits full.

Shrine having truesight is irrelevant. At first I read it as sacrificial stone, which would have actually been kinda cool, making it a pretty viable item.

 

[Padre]

Actually now that you mention it, Sac stone having true sight would be great but too imba I think. Unless you would gain true sight after set number of charges on it.

As for Hotbl and shieldbreaker. I can't disagree more. You see, to me hotbl is already a fantastic item that is cheap, all parts are useful and is generally too powerful for it's price. On the other hand shieldbreaker was never seen, in pubs or in comp play. You say it will widen the gulf between melee and ranged. Won't really affect this until FWS gets nerfed. No ranged carry will get SB over FWS. Sure you will have superb damage but melee heroes generally have better steroids and ranged rely on positioning and kiting, things which you won't be able to do without Frostwolf.

I like this deflection piercing mechanic because now a Kraken, CD, Armaderp who got some early good farm will actually be killable. Mind you, this mechanic only affects the wielder of SB, rest of your team just does bonus damage due to - armour. And if you still think SB is op, head over to the balance forum. Hsssh, Anankha, Lethe have some good discussion about how SB was underpowered because of Sol's Bulwark and FWS dominance. Now it actually has its uses and a unique ability.

Also, today had a game against MoA. As soon as this guy picked him, went for PM. Mind you, he was a retard and couldn't complete savage mace till like 50 minute but he really wasn't doing much. Was kinda funny 3 shotting him with shroud.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Balance forum is filled with retards suggesting things like elder parasite wouldn't be viable even if it gave +300% attack speed because 15% vulnerability is too huge. Do the actual math and compare shieldbreaker to pretty much any other item and it comes out on top for damage dealt, BEFORE you factor in allies attacking as well and benefitting from bonus armor. Riftshards beats it narrowly but lots of hreroes have crits anyways. Making it start at 2500 gold was insane, adding 10 damage on top of that; you're looking at an item that pretty much doubles your attack power when you buy it for slightly more cost than a whispering helm, and builds into an even better item seemlessly. FWS will make you a tank that can kite melee heroes around; but the cost is way too high, and until it's finished all you have is a shit ton of hp that doesn't help you farm and doesn't let you affect team fights worth shit, and uses up an assload of item slots. FWS isn't why melee heroes are screwed in the meta right now, it's the fact that people have gotten better at being aggressive early on and a melee agi hero in the middle of an enemy creep wave trying to last hit things is a sitting duck. By the time you've farmed a FWS the game is already over. And yes, you can kite just fine without FWS. There are other sources of slowing and stuns in the game. You get to pick 5 of them before the match starts. Shrunken head doesn't last forever, and if the enemy team initiated on you (So you can't just back off until it's over) your disabler probably died from the initial stun rape combo anyways, if the enemy carry is farmed enough to have SH + actual damage items.

HoTBL on CD was retarded to begin with. 70% chance to reduce an attack by 20? That works out to 14 less damage on average, coming from heroes generally dishing out 100-150+. You beat that with a pair of punch dagggers. You'd get more durability out of a whispering helm. The only reason the item is useful at all is so melee heroes can farm stacks without melting instantly, but they nerfed camp stacking so that isn't as important now anyways. Otherwise it's just a way to merge your lifetube and shield together for people that don't realize you can just sell the damned shield and only lose 125 gold, and put the lifetube towards a nullstone or runed axe. (Or sell it too. Better to waste 500 gold selling items than 1500 turning them into something that is going to be worthless in another 10 minutes.)

 

[Padre]

Actually a rushed Hotbl is imo crucial on CD. Gives him much needed hp and hp regen with added block. He doesn't need any damage items for the first part of the game because everyone is maxing his second skill anyway. Hotbl can block 14damage on average sure but it makes tower diving a breeze. You are not immortal but you are tough enough to be in the middle of the fight where your ult and second skill shine. You say hotbl is retarded and people are dishing 100-150 damage. The only ones that do are ss, arachna and maybe pebbles by the time you have hotbl, unless you farm like a true loler with 120gpm. And even then, its 2-3 hits more you can take from them before dying. As heroes attack slowly at this point, you have another 3-5 seconds to live. And sometimes it's enough. Remember that for CD 3 seconds means +60damage for him and -60 damage for his opponent.

SB costs 2500 for 40 damage. Slayer costs 2200 for 46 damage and it's part of one of the two best dps items in the game (Savage mace). As I said, your theorycrafting is a little off, every comp play I saw was a ranged carry go for frostburn (shrunken somewhere in the middle too) followed by splitting it to geo and FWS. Of course it's the most expensive item in the game but you see it in every comp match, seeing it a lot in pubs too because build up is easy and very rewarding. You can start with frostburn, buy 2100 component and carry it with you and rice another 2k to get recipe plus glowstone. Ta-da, you have FWS with Firebrand. Gives shitton of stats, one of the best slows in the game that go through shrunken head and doesn't need to be stacked to be effective.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Hp are essential on CD for tower diving. No reason to get them from a HotBL. Do the math: You have ~1000 hp. Probably going to lose 500 of that to spells. So ~500 going to be lost to autoattacks. Assuming your enemy is level 7 with upgraded boots and some starter rings/bracers/whatever, 90-100 damage is perfectly reasonable. First tier towers already do 110. You'll have ~5 armor, so 23% damage reduction, or 650 effective hp to attacks. So you're dead in 7-8 autos. even being generous at 8 autos, helm is going to block only 96 damage on average. You'd be better off with a bracer than the shield + lifetube components.

Yeah you can reduce their damage with conduit, some enemies have shittier magic damage, blah blah. This is all when you're at absolute peak effectiveness for helm. 10 minutes later, everyone is level 11 and blocking 20 damage off a 150 damage SS is a joke. 30 minutes later you don't have room for a TP and token at the same time because you have a retarded helm filling an item slot because it blocks 5% of enemy auto attack damage, and you're 2000 gold short of having a Symbol of Rage that'd give you the same hp + some wicked life steal worth another 1000 hp easily.

And if you want to compare shieldbreaker to a slayer (Which doesn't reduce enemy armor by 2, giving you a relatively massive damage boost), how about we compare the stats of a warhammer with the stats on... nothing. Or the stats on a fully completed level 3 shieldbreaker with the stats on 2 parts of an unfinished savage mace.

Or, you know, ACTUAL FUCKING MATH.

 

[Padre]

Or you know. Some conclusions by the maker of the graph.

Do you already have an attack modifier? -> Savage Mace
Does an allied hero already have Shieldbreaker? -> Savage Mace
Does the enemy team have more than one annoying channeling spell? -> Savage Mace
Do your or allied hero spells do mostly physical damage? -> Shieldbreaker
Do you or an allied hero have spells that reduce enemy armor? -> Shieldbreaker
Does an enemy hero have one annoying channeling spell? -> Savage Mace
Does the enemy carry have a form of evasion? -> Savage Mace
Is your current damage currently above 175? -> Shieldbreaker
Did you answer "no" to all of the above? -> Savage Mace

Listen, I don't argue that it's a great dps item. t will be an awesome pick up on Pred for example. It is great because of abundance of +armour items and abilities. I rarely run around at endgame with below 20 armour. But it's an orb effect nevertheless. We will have to see what pros do with it. If I get a chance to play pred tonight I'm gonna go for it and try it out. He is one of the few that doesn't need a slow that much.

 

[Castanova]

Just picked this game up this morning. I'm 2-3 so far in solo random matches. Very difficult game to get started in -- first two matches I got zero kills and basically contributed nothing. Andromeda and Devourer were so far my most successful picks. The Gladiator was kinda fun but difficult to use, I thought.

Any other heroes I should focus on in the current stock of free ones?