So, anyone playing League of Legends?

[Hellraiser]

Not just any kind of true damage but true damage based on enemy max HP (in addition to doing base true damage). Which makes her the only AD carry which can reliably kill tanky champs without being fed as fuck. As long as they don't chain-cc and rape her that is. Plus she can easily mop up all the people running away after/during a team fight with her Q and passive which results in her getting fed more easily.

 

[Jaedar]

Vayne has hard CC as opposed to Grave's pretty shitty one, better escape mechanisms, a better ultimate and deals true damage.

We have no problem laning against Graves, but we ban Vayne in pretty much all matches.

Vayne's CC is only "hard" if the enemy positions themselves poorly ie right next to walls. Fairly easy to avoid in the majority of the laning phase. In the rest of the game, it depends a lot on where you engage, bases have very few places to use it, river and jungles have lots of spots.

And yeah, graves might not be OP in the sense that he's too powerful, but he sure counters Vayne, especially in the early game, unless the graves is retarded.

@Jim: Who the hell needs attack speed when you can 3 shot anyone after being reasonably fed? Attack damage is a much better investment imo, as it makes that third true damage hit do utterly insane damage. At least when you have lots of CC on your team, and we usually do as I mainly play Vayne these days with reject as Leona which means that there's plenty of CC to go around. The problem against graves is that there is no way to become fed because he can phase you very easily.

tl:dr Graves counters Vayne like a motherfucker, I am very butthurt about this.

 

[Excidium]

Well bro, sounds like you need a better support.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Attack damage is a much better investment imo, as it makes that third true damage hit do utterly insane damage.

The math behind why AD+AS is better on carries is a fairly simple one, as doubling your AD=doubling dps, doubling your AS=doubling dps, doubling both=quadrupling your dps. If you spend money on doubling your AD, then spend moneys to increase your AD by the same amount, you have merely tripled your dps.

Vayne on the other hand has her W, which is unaffected by attack damage, but gets stronger with attack speed. Similarly the ult gives attack damage which synergizes with attack speed. So Vayne is in many ways more dependent upon attack speed than other carries (like Graves, who gets an AS steroid).

 

[Grunker]

I was just about to say that. Bloodthirster/Inf. followed by Phantom Dancer is the way to go on Vayne (and most carries honestly). In some cases the PD should be delayed for a Banshee's or Sash, of course, but two damage items in a row are not recommendable the way I see it.

 

[Excidium]

He seems to be having problems against Graves mainly on laning phase so I don't think changing his late game items will help much...

 

[Mystary!]

Or maybe just try someone other than Vayne against him. Picking strongest isn't always better, picking a counter is. Caitlyn should be able to harrass his ass off.

 

[Grunker]

honestly caitlyn counters just about everything but yeah the idea is right

 

[Excidium]

Or just tell rej to play an aggressive support with good sustain like Alistar (or Janna since he only plays gurlz), support Leona won't scare anyone out of a lane.

 

[Berekän]

According to Chaox, the most powerful AD carries right now are Graves, Kog'Maw and Sivir, so there's that.

 

[Excidium]

That's on his level of play. On our world of unranked draft/ ELO hell, those three easily fall behind Vayne.

Kog'maw and Sivir...GP presses Q twice and gets a kill.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm still not level 30 yet, but if any of you guys want to play some matches together my LoL name is Stormlock, on the NA servers.

 

[Excidium]

I'll add you when I get home on friday.

 

[Mystary!]

And still, just because they are the most powerful carries doesnt necessarily mean they can counter each other, just saying. Paper doesnt beat paper.

 

[Grunker]

According to Chaox, the most powerful AD carries right now are Graves, Kog'Maw and Sivir, so there's that.

Yep, I saw this, and I must disagree with him. Kog'Maw I agree on, but I don't at all see the other two. Sivir has an insanely strong lane, but her late-game is pretty bad, and most fights seem to go to late game right now. Graves I don't agree with AT ALL though, I think there are clearly stronger alternatives. Chaox is notoriously fickle when it comes to supporting champions, so let's see if his opinion sticks or not.

 

[Jim Cojones]

The math behind why AD+AS is better on carries is a fairly simple one, as doubling your AD=doubling dps, doubling your AS=doubling dps, doubling both=quadrupling your dps. If you spend money on doubling your AD, then spend moneys to increase your AD by the same amount, you have merely tripled your dps.

Vayne on the other hand has her W, which is unaffected by attack damage, but gets stronger with attack speed. Similarly the ult gives attack damage which synergizes with attack speed. So Vayne is in many ways more dependent upon attack speed than other carries (like Graves, who gets an AS steroid).

Pretty much this but also:

The difference between slow and fast attack speed is often equal to a difference between hitting enemy three times (getting bonus damage from Silver Boilts) before he flashes away/Alistar push you back etc. and hitting only twice before enemies react.

Infinity Edge is a great item but if it's your only source of critical chance, you don't benefit that much from its passive.

If the enemy has got a Phantom Dancer and you don't have one, he's got huge speed advantage which means he decides when the fights happen. You won't really be able to punish him when you have an advantage because he will run away while he will be able to benefit from every single mistake you make.

 

[Dark Matter]

Can someone explain to me why jungle Tryndamere isn't more popular? I always thought his early game laning was his biggest weakness but you avoid that problem by jungling. He's really good at ganking too with his E+W (basically flash+exhaust on ridiculously short cooldowns), and once you hit level 6, you can even tower dive them if you have to.

 

[Excidium]

Probably because his core is expensive as fuck so he needs the top farm.

 

[Mystary!]

The kind of people that plays Tryndamere are usually not junglers, and junglers wouldnt touch Trynd with a 10 foot pole. The mentalities just doesnt mix well. But sure, it can be effective when they do.

 

[Phage]

Graves is indeed a very powerful AD carry. If he is matched with Soraka, Sona or Alistar, he should easily dominate Vayne in lane. Caitlyn, Sivir, Ezreal and Corki post-level 6 can give him some problems in lane though. Even though they have some natural advantages (Cait - Range, Sivir - Poke/Shield, Ezreal - Pokes, Corki lvl 6 - Poke), Graves can still very easily pull ahead if he can land a couple Q's without taking damage.


Having said that, Vayne's single target damage is still significantly higher (she's up there with Kog'Maw for the highest) at endgame.

Can someone explain to me why jungle Tryndamere isn't more popular? I always thought his early game laning was his biggest weakness but you avoid that problem by jungling. He's really good at ganking too with his E+W (basically flash+exhaust on ridiculously short cooldowns), and once you hit level 6, you can even tower dive them if you have to.

He's one of the strongest top-laners currently (only has a couple counters), and doesn't gain enough farm in the jungle unless you get fed off your ass ganking (unlikely) or solely focus on farming the jungle (which means you aren't helping your lanes)


Also Mystary!'s statement is just simply... silly. I've played a fair amount of Trynd (second most used Ranked char) both jungle and lane. Jungle can work, but he's much stronger in lane unless you get hard-countered (an expertly played teemo for example)

 

[Phage]

I'm still not level 30 yet, but if any of you guys want to play some matches together my LoL name is Stormlock, on the NA servers.

I'm metaSHODAN on the NA servers, feel free to add me.

 

[Grunker]

Tryndamere is quite alright in the jungle, but he's fucking top tier with a gold star top. That's why, in my mind.

 

[Mystary!]

Also Mystary!'s statement is just simply... silly. I've played a fair amount of Trynd (second most used Ranked char) both jungle and lane. Jungle can work, but he's much stronger in lane unless you get hard-countered (an expertly played teemo for example)

Oh so it doesn't apply to you, grats, doesn't change the fact that the majority of Trynd players only play him to take advantage of his pubstomping qualities when fed against an disorganized team, and they could care less about jungling or team composition.

 

[Grunker]

Having said that, Vayne's single target damage is still significantly higher (she's up there with Kog'Maw for the highest) at endgame.

don't forget twitch amirite

 

[Darth Roxor]

I like how Trynd suddenly went from 'lololololo nobody ever plays trynd ranked, noob champ, so easy to counter' to "HOLY SHIT TOP TIER' without even any positive changes. Probably 'cause someone saw him once on a high elo stream. League of Legends community in a nutshell. R00fles!