Decline So Vampire: The Masquerade 5e is going to be a thing.

[Morkar Left]

I never really cared about WoD but reading how Paradox is treating the studio is embarassing. But it fits my impression to better stay far away from all things Paradox...

 

[udm]

Swedes gon swede

 

[Ismaul]

Imagine that: Paradox has been voted in as finalist for Best Developer in this year's Steam Awards. Disgusting.

 

[Vibalist]

After initially being relegated to an 'antagonist faction', The Sabbat now has its own rulebook for V5:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/385327/The-Black-Hand-Playing-the-Sabbat

 

[Larianshill]

I don't think this is official.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Isn't v5 a total trainwreck in terms of lore retcons?

 

[Vibalist]

I don't think this is official.

It is.

 

[Vibalist]

Isn't v5 a total trainwreck in terms of lore retcons?

Based on what I've read, I don't think so. They don't retcon as much as they move things forward. The Sabbat, for instance, has lost much of its power and has gone from ruling entire cities to resorting to sporadic terrorist attacks and infiltration missions into enemy territory, a change I actually like a whole lot because I always thought they worked better as shadowy boogeymen than a ravaging army. Clans are less tied up to a specific sect, meaning that Lasombra and Tzimisce can be found within Camarilla, Anarch and Sabbat respectively (and vice versa). I like this too as it gives the players more options for costumization, ie. playing a Tzimisce who isn't tied to the Sabbat.

The most controversial lore development in V5 is probably The Beckoning, a mysterious siren call that draws most elder vampires (generations 8 and upwards) to the Middle East to fight in the Gehenna War, effectively removing any vampire older than 300-400 years of age from the setting. Some people dislike it because it places even more emphasis on the impending apocalypse, but at the same time it gives younger vampires (ie. player characters) a real opportunity to shine and do something that wasn't just orchestrated by an elder.

 

[Storyfag]

The most controversial lore development in V5 is probably The Beckoning

Probably, but the establishment of Clan Hecata is a very close second. It'd work, had they stopped short of inviting the Nagarahaja in, as these licks aren't descendants of Cappadocius. Plus the whole "mysterious changes in the blood" rewriting the Clan weakness are meh to say the least.

 

[Semiurge]

Based on what I've read, I don't think so. They don't retcon as much as they move things forward. The Sabbat, for instance, has lost much of its power and has gone from ruling entire cities to resorting to sporadic terrorist attacks and infiltration missions into enemy territory, a change I actually like a whole lot because I always thought they worked better as shadowy boogeymen than a ravaging army. Clans are less tied up to a specific sect, meaning that Lasombra and Tzimisce can be found within Camarilla, Anarch and Sabbat respectively (and vice versa). I like this too as it gives the players more options for costumization, ie. playing a Tzimisce who isn't tied to the Sabbat.

A cammy Tzimisce. Now I've heard of everything. These changes per every revision are an act of watering down the lore, fitting as this is exactly what happens to all kindred per each new generation sired. Everything is homogenized and the lines blurred so that every player can better stroke their vanity.

 

[Caim]

Cammy Tzimische weren't impossible before, but A: they were extremely rare, B: they joined up for very specific reasons, C: never attained any rank in the Camarilla and D: were powerful enough to take care of themselves. Honestly I wouldn't allow such a character in a game unless it was a highly specific all-Elder game, and even then they are a stretch.

Not sure if the Tzimisce are actually playable, and it's too bad that their powers have been turned into a variant of Protean.

 

[Vibalist]

Tzimisce are playable and actually have been for a while now. As far as I can tell, all sects and clans are. They probably wouldn't have been without massive backlash from the fans, but hey, at least White Wolf listened.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Isn't v5 a total trainwreck in terms of lore retcons?

They don't retcon as much as they move things forward.

Yeah, improper word usage on my part. That's what I was curious about with them moving the plot forward and doing it in a poor manner.

Watched some reviews of the edition in the past and what stayed with me from the more negative ones was that while some mechanical changes were neat (hunger if I'm not mistaken), that the fluff changes were quite bad (with the Camarilla no longer being a cohesive and influential main force in vampire politics being chief among them, unless I misremember things).

 

[Storyfag]

Not sure if the Tzimisce are actually playable, and it's too bad that their powers have been turned into a variant of Protean.

Oh no, it actually makes more sense.

 

[Vibalist]

Isn't v5 a total trainwreck in terms of lore retcons?

They don't retcon as much as they move things forward.

Yeah, improper word usage on my part. That's what I was curious about with them moving the plot forward and doing it in a poor manner.

Watched some reviews of the edition in the past and what stayed with me from the more negative ones was that while some mechanical changes were neat (hunger if I'm not mistaken), that the fluff changes were quite bad (with the Camarilla no longer being a cohesive and influential main force in vampire politics being chief among them, unless I misremember things).

I actually think you're misrembering with regards to the Camarilla. They're pretty much the same. If anything, they're doing better now that The Sabbat has almost disappeared.

 

[Caim]

So how about WerewolV, eh?

Uktena and Wendigo have been renamed into the Ghost Council and Galestalkers, the Stargazers fucked off and the Get of Fenris collectively started to suffer from Hauglosk and now are a bunch of werewolf Doomguys who can be friend or foe. There's been an interview and a Q&A, with some of the details being:

- Tribes have been retooled into losing their ethnic background. The Fianna still have their name and when the writer claims that it's just a word the Hiberian elements of the fanbase got pissy over getting their culture erased. Guess that means that Paradox believes that the Irish are white and therefore cannot be oppressed.
- Black Furies have been retooled into a generic anti-oppression angle.
- Auspices are mostly unchanged in form and function, even though Klaives are now better suited to being used in Homid or Glabro form.
- Gnosis as a resource and concept is gone, its function taken over by Renown, Rage and Willpower.
- No more Kinfolk or being born into a tribe: there's just Kin out there with the potential to be a werewolf, with existing ones trying to trigger their first change. As such, a werewolf's babies aren't automatically werewolves or kin themselves. At least this cuts out the furry/bestiality angle somewhat.
- No more Sense Wyrm and similar gifts: if you want to see if someone's corrupted by the Wyrm, you've gotta do some sleuthing and draw your conclusions from there.
- And with Sense Wyrm gone, Vampires no longer automatically ding the WYRM TAINTED RIP AND TEAR meter of the Garou. Vampire/Werewolf teamups are now possible.
- A complete and utter removal of the word "savage" in all instances.

Here's a google doc with the Q&A, note that it's 11 pages long:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TI9FGZeku83c_rdJQl2cZzbaUg2MEMInYMG4pjUFfyw

 

[Alex]

So how about WerewolV, eh?

Uktena and Wendigo have been renamed into the Ghost Council and Galestalkers, the Stargazers fucked off and the Get of Fenris collectively started to suffer from Hauglosk and now are a bunch of werewolf Doomguys who can be friend or foe. There's been an interview and a Q&A, with some of the details being:

- Tribes have been retooled into losing their ethnic background. The Fianna still have their name and when the writer claims that it's just a word the Hiberian elements of the fanbase got pissy over getting their culture erased. Guess that means that Paradox believes that the Irish are white and therefore cannot be oppressed.
- Black Furies have been retooled into a generic anti-oppression angle.
- Auspices are mostly unchanged in form and function, even though Klaives are now better suited to being used in Homid or Glabro form.
- Gnosis as a resource and concept is gone, its function taken over by Renown, Rage and Willpower.
- No more Kinfolk or being born into a tribe: there's just Kin out there with the potential to be a werewolf, with existing ones trying to trigger their first change. As such, a werewolf's babies aren't automatically werewolves or kin themselves. At least this cuts out the furry/bestiality angle somewhat.
- No more Sense Wyrm and similar gifts: if you want to see if someone's corrupted by the Wyrm, you've gotta do some sleuthing and draw your conclusions from there.
- And with Sense Wyrm gone, Vampires no longer automatically ding the WYRM TAINTED RIP AND TEAR meter of the Garou. Vampire/Werewolf teamups are now possible.
- A complete and utter removal of the word "savage" in all instances.

Here's a google doc with the Q&A, note that it's 11 pages long:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TI9FGZeku83c_rdJQl2cZzbaUg2MEMInYMG4pjUFfyw

I would feel bad for Werewolf players (all 3 of them), but the amount of cringe they seem to be going for by mixing what was already an edgy take on captain planet with full on sjw has some pretty great lulz potential. Hopefully they add the dumbest aspects of playing a lycanthrope from the non werewolf books as well.

 

[Caim]

So how about WerewolV, eh?

Uktena and Wendigo have been renamed into the Ghost Council and Galestalkers, the Stargazers fucked off and the Get of Fenris collectively started to suffer from Hauglosk and now are a bunch of werewolf Doomguys who can be friend or foe. There's been an interview and a Q&A, with some of the details being:

- Tribes have been retooled into losing their ethnic background. The Fianna still have their name and when the writer claims that it's just a word the Hiberian elements of the fanbase got pissy over getting their culture erased. Guess that means that Paradox believes that the Irish are white and therefore cannot be oppressed.
- Black Furies have been retooled into a generic anti-oppression angle.
- Auspices are mostly unchanged in form and function, even though Klaives are now better suited to being used in Homid or Glabro form.
- Gnosis as a resource and concept is gone, its function taken over by Renown, Rage and Willpower.
- No more Kinfolk or being born into a tribe: there's just Kin out there with the potential to be a werewolf, with existing ones trying to trigger their first change. As such, a werewolf's babies aren't automatically werewolves or kin themselves. At least this cuts out the furry/bestiality angle somewhat.
- No more Sense Wyrm and similar gifts: if you want to see if someone's corrupted by the Wyrm, you've gotta do some sleuthing and draw your conclusions from there.
- And with Sense Wyrm gone, Vampires no longer automatically ding the WYRM TAINTED RIP AND TEAR meter of the Garou. Vampire/Werewolf teamups are now possible.
- A complete and utter removal of the word "savage" in all instances.

Here's a google doc with the Q&A, note that it's 11 pages long:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TI9FGZeku83c_rdJQl2cZzbaUg2MEMInYMG4pjUFfyw

I would feel bad for Werewolf players (all 3 of them), but the amount of cringe they seem to be going for by mixing what was already an edgy take on captain planet with full on sjw has some pretty great lulz potential. Hopefully they add the dumbest aspects of playing a lycanthrope from the non werewolf books as well.

From the looks of it they're toning down the lulzy Captain Planet stuff, which was half the appeal of Werewolf.

 

[Alex]

So how about WerewolV, eh?

Uktena and Wendigo have been renamed into the Ghost Council and Galestalkers, the Stargazers fucked off and the Get of Fenris collectively started to suffer from Hauglosk and now are a bunch of werewolf Doomguys who can be friend or foe. There's been an interview and a Q&A, with some of the details being:

- Tribes have been retooled into losing their ethnic background. The Fianna still have their name and when the writer claims that it's just a word the Hiberian elements of the fanbase got pissy over getting their culture erased. Guess that means that Paradox believes that the Irish are white and therefore cannot be oppressed.
- Black Furies have been retooled into a generic anti-oppression angle.
- Auspices are mostly unchanged in form and function, even though Klaives are now better suited to being used in Homid or Glabro form.
- Gnosis as a resource and concept is gone, its function taken over by Renown, Rage and Willpower.
- No more Kinfolk or being born into a tribe: there's just Kin out there with the potential to be a werewolf, with existing ones trying to trigger their first change. As such, a werewolf's babies aren't automatically werewolves or kin themselves. At least this cuts out the furry/bestiality angle somewhat.
- No more Sense Wyrm and similar gifts: if you want to see if someone's corrupted by the Wyrm, you've gotta do some sleuthing and draw your conclusions from there.
- And with Sense Wyrm gone, Vampires no longer automatically ding the WYRM TAINTED RIP AND TEAR meter of the Garou. Vampire/Werewolf teamups are now possible.
- A complete and utter removal of the word "savage" in all instances.

Here's a google doc with the Q&A, note that it's 11 pages long:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TI9FGZeku83c_rdJQl2cZzbaUg2MEMInYMG4pjUFfyw

I would feel bad for Werewolf players (all 3 of them), but the amount of cringe they seem to be going for by mixing what was already an edgy take on captain planet with full on sjw has some pretty great lulz potential. Hopefully they add the dumbest aspects of playing a lycanthrope from the non werewolf books as well.

From the looks of it they're toning down the lulzy Captain Planet stuff, which was half the appeal of Werewolf.

The wyrm's new plan involves making people assert obvious falsehoods such as there being only 2 genders or that marriage is between a man and a woman. Fortunately, the garou have a strong ally in the big companies that, now free from the taint of the wyrm, only seek to bring the world to a bright future.

 

[NecroLord]

New Werewolf:The Apocalypse quest initiated:
Attend BLM rally.