Solasta Solasta: Crown of the Magister Thread - now with Palace of Ice sequel DLC

[Desiderius]

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

Successful trolls use truth against those determined to avoid it.

 

[lukaszek]

shadow-ranger-whatever-the-name is most dmg dealing class in whole game.

Against soraks/few other mobs - sure. Otherwise - hardly.

everything relevant and their mother got darkvision.
Then for favored enemies you pick undead along with monstrosity and again... that pretty much covers everything

 

[fantadomat]

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

I wouldn't call it successful,it is like the meme with "just pretending to be retarded,brah". Tho there is always the option of just being a retard.

 

[Parabalus]

shadow-ranger-whatever-the-name is most dmg dealing class in whole game.

Against soraks/few other mobs - sure. Otherwise - hardly.

fanta it is you who keep bringing kangmaker in first place

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

Incidentally those guys are also immune to poison.

 

[Desiderius]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...amic-environments.138703/page-73#post-7357575

 

[fantadomat]

shadow-ranger-whatever-the-name is most dmg dealing class in whole game.

Against soraks/few other mobs - sure. Otherwise - hardly.

fanta it is you who keep bringing kangmaker in first place

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

Incidentally those guys are also immune to poison.

Sooo for a third time,hope it is the lucky time. How much damage the ranger does max per turn???

 

[fantadomat]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...amic-environments.138703/page-73#post-7357575

Yes you dipship,we are talking about solasta. Are you a fucking retard for real,spit dripping and playful eyes and all ?

 

[Parabalus]

shadow-ranger-whatever-the-name is most dmg dealing class in whole game.

Against soraks/few other mobs - sure. Otherwise - hardly.

fanta it is you who keep bringing kangmaker in first place

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

Incidentally those guys are also immune to poison.

Sooo for a third time,hope it is the lucky time. How much damage the ranger does max per turn???

It was answered:

Sooo my rogue did:

First attack had: 1d8+1d6 necro+ 1d4 reocuring damage +5 from dex +4 i believe from prof +5d6 sneak. Which is max of 57 and 1d4 per round, then my off hand did 1d8+1 2d6+1 necro + 5 dex and don't remember if prof was possible for offhand, so it ends up at max of 27 damage. So total possible per round of attack was 84 damage per round. On top of that you have a uncanny dodge and another defensive skill that i don't remember.


So what is the pure damage of ranger ? The best bow was storm something and had 1d8 + 1d6 electrical or something similar.

Prof isn't added to damage and rogues can't add attribute bonus to damage with the off hand, need TWF for that, which ranger has.

With the same weapons it comes down to SA 5d6 vs 10+1d8+1d6, latter (ranger) wins on average (but you'd obviously swap OH and MH, dunno why you have a stronger oh even on rogue, do you never haste him?).

But if you use the greataxe of sharpness it's over for the rogue.

Biggest issue is you won't sneak attack every round, especially since the rogue often wins on initiative.

He wins even with the same suboptimal setup, without any other class bonuses.

No idea what's the max, I'm stuck with a shadowcaster rogue and no way I'm replaying.

 

[fantadomat]

shadow-ranger-whatever-the-name is most dmg dealing class in whole game.

Against soraks/few other mobs - sure. Otherwise - hardly.

fanta it is you who keep bringing kangmaker in first place

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

Incidentally those guys are also immune to poison.

Sooo for a third time,hope it is the lucky time. How much damage the ranger does max per turn???

It was answered:

Sooo my rogue did:

First attack had: 1d8+1d6 necro+ 1d4 reocuring damage +5 from dex +4 i believe from prof +5d6 sneak. Which is max of 57 and 1d4 per round, then my off hand did 1d8+1 2d6+1 necro + 5 dex and don't remember if prof was possible for offhand, so it ends up at max of 27 damage. So total possible per round of attack was 84 damage per round. On top of that you have a uncanny dodge and another defensive skill that i don't remember.


So what is the pure damage of ranger ? The best bow was storm something and had 1d8 + 1d6 electrical or something similar.

Prof isn't added to damage and rogues can't add attribute bonus to damage with the off hand, need TWF for that, which ranger has.

With the same weapons it comes down to SA 5d6 vs 10+1d8+1d6, latter (ranger) wins on average (but you'd obviously swap OH and MH, dunno why you have a stronger oh even on rogue, do you never haste him?).

But if you use the greataxe of sharpness it's over for the rogue.

Biggest issue is you won't sneak attack every round, especially since the rogue often wins on initiative.

He wins even with the same suboptimal setup, without any other class bonuses.

No idea what's the max, I'm stuck with a shadowcaster rogue and no way I'm replaying.

How does he win? he have just generic damage of d8 and d6 from elemental,his only bonus is getting favourite enemy of which he gets max 4 damage lol. Are fucking messing with me? How are you compensating for the sneak outside of your make believe shit? It is clear that ranger is useless character all around. Both fighter and rogue are better in melee and their range capability is the same lol. Why are you arguing the obvious facts is beyond me. Are you some kind of ranger fanboy or what?

Oh and 24 is not bigger than 30 lol.

 

[Thac0]

Rogues are clearly not worse than the base ranger. Rogues have some of the best pre level 5 in the game, and that is where the hardest part of the content is anyway. They fall of a bit in terms of damage after 5, but in evasion and uncanny dodge they gain some of the strongest defensive features in the game. They go from hyper focussed glass cannons to bruisers with extremely high battlefield mobility, above average damage output and good defense. Overall the rogue is a lot stronger than the ranger, because it is a stronger class by default anyway, and Solasta supports the rogue very strongly.
Excellent dex weapons, wonderfull shortswords and daggers can be obtained very early. A rapier is the strongest one handed weapon in the game. Bows are kinda meh by comparison, and you will need a lot longer to get decently enchanted longbows.

However I think that the shadow tamer ranger as a single subclass is stronger than any rogue build. That subclass is nuts. Darkslayer triggers against Soraks and strong undead. Coincidentally every remotely hard fight in the early and midgame is against Soraks and strong undead. Sure they will lack behind while you pummel humans and other monsters, but they are strong when it matters.

 

[Desiderius]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...amic-environments.138703/page-73#post-7357575

Yes you dipship,we are talking about solasta. Are you a fucking retard for real,spit dripping and playful eyes and all ?

Read the comment above it you were responding to (your reply is in past tense to distinguish from the game we’re talking about now). Every else can read it, but don’t give enough of a fuck about you to make you confront the lie.

I did. But yeah you’ve convinced me you’re not worth the trouble. The general point that goes far beyond P:K is that rangers are almost always underrated in cRPGs. Don’t fall for it without testing yourself and when you test do it with an open mind.

Rogues often have the same problem because they really were pretty bad in the early games.

 

[fantadomat]

. That subclass is nuts.

How comes? It is just 4 damage and 4 attack at best. It is nothing special. Nothing compared to 5d6 sneak.

 

[jackofshadows]

In terms of raw damage - hardly but THC does matter. Rangers have advantage over rogues with fighting style already and with dark slayer it becomes glaring. I've seen so many misses with my rogue, it's painful (sometimes even from stealth).

 

[Thac0]

. That subclass is nuts.

How comes? It is just 4 damage and 4 attack at best. It is nothing special. Nothing compared to 5d6 sneak.

Ranger has quite a bit of stuff in the class itself. Hunter's Mark for +1d6, extra attack, fighting style for +2 damage or +2 accuracy (bow or duelling, more if you want dual wielding), healing spells and summons deep late. As a tradeoff the subclasses are all pretty shit, hunter is only +4,5 to damage against hurt targets once per turn for example.
If you take the potent base kit of ranger and put that much more raw damage and accuracy on top he melts enemies.

Damage comparison at level 5, dual wielding Whiteburn and Frostburn dagger for both (I think you can get both very early) and dex+4

Rogue: 2d6+5 + 1d4+1d8+1 + (3d6)
12 + 8 + 10,5
30,5

Ranger: 2d6+8+1d6 + 1d4+1d8+8+1d6 + 2d6+8+1d6
10,5 + 8 + 10,5 + 8 + 10,5+8
49,5

With hunters mark active at level 5, and darkslayer extra damage active ranger outdamages rogue hard
If you do not get the +3 from subclass it is still 30,5 damage against 40,5 if all things hit. Only if you subtract hunters mark (10,5 damage for 3 hits) does the rogue outdamage the ranger at level 5, and only barely. Fighting style two weapon fighting adds full ability score to second hand attack, and one extra attack with all the magical weapons laying around in Solasta is a lot of damage.
On higher level this comparison only gets worse for the rogue, each time proficiency bonus raises he gets +1 damage to each of the three attacks.

 

[Lhynn]

speaking of sneaking and rogues, its like if locked chests disappear in 2nd half of the game

Rogues themselves also seem to be pure garbage.

I've seen people say you can replace them with any low-life background class, highly recommended.

Sneak attack is pretty good,but 5e is pretty retarded,they fucked up a lot of classes with half ass simplification. Utility wise the rogue have become pretty useless,shame. Back in 3.5e it was the king of utility with a lot of skills,pretty good for main character on campaigns with other shit than muh combat.

SA is complete trash because of the 1/turn limit.

Much better to take a fighter or ranger instead.

I dunno why they nerfed sneak attacks so badly in 5e.

Sneak dice was always highly conditional in Pathfinder and 3.5. The fact you got it on every attack was powerful, but it usually took a lot of set up to achieve. You either had to flank (many enemies are immune to flanking), be invisible/stealthed or do feints which required a bluff check vs quite high DCs on high level enemies.

Any enemies immune to precision (which at high levels would be at least one creature per encounter) or enemies with fortification (again not that uncommon at high levels) could counter it quite easily as well.

It was one of those high risk/high reward things most of the time, as the Rogue had to expose themselves to quite significant danger usually to be capable of pulling them off.

Rogues are skillmonkeys with a single high damage attack and a lot of flexibility. Rogue can be pretty much anywhere in the battlefield thanks to their cunning action, and every attack they make can be a sneak attack. In average they will do in that single attack more than fighters can in 1 attack, generally speaking every time a fighter gets an extra attack a rogue will get 2d6, which means if you dont add attribute bonus to damage they wont fall behind a fighter, as most fighters dont use a weapon capable of doing 2d6. This, of course, gets skewed with attribute bonuses, magical weapons, buffs like haste, etc. But in exchange for the loss that they can do about a million other things.

Uncanny dodge in an edition where most enemies have 2 attacks at most guarantees a reduction of 25% of the damage in almost every environment, evasion is immunity to AoE damage.

Its a superb class that would have seen a lot more use in a game that wasnt a simplified version of 5e. Like, there are very few traps, very few locked chests, no real secret walls, you cant steal, you miss out on some pretty amazing sub classes, etc.

 

[jackofshadows]

Damage comparison at level 5

That's where ranger outdamage rogue the most, what's even the point, that's obvious. Darkweaver can also have his bonus prof damage pretty much all the time, SA hit almost always unlike ranger's favored enemy. Poisonous is no joke as I've pointed out above and 5d6 in SA is also a much bigger bonus at lvl cup.

The problem is, at least in Solasta's base module enviroment that melee rogue lacks THC and I'm not sure how to fix that. Because of that he might feel inferior to ranger in some cases.

 

[lukaszek]

guys stop arguing, clearly we were never meant to reach lvl5 in this game

 

[Thac0]

Damage comparison at level 5

That's where ranger outdamage rogue the most, what's even the point, that's obvious. Darkweaver can also have his bonus prof damage pretty much all the time, SA hit almost always unlike ranger's favored enemy. Poisonous is no joke as I've pointed out above and 5d6 in SA is also a much bigger bonus at lvl cup.

The problem is, at least in Solasta's base module enviroment that melee rogue lacks THC and I'm not sure how to fix that. Because of that he might feel inferior to ranger in some cases.

That is the point where ranger overtakes rogue, and rogue is never able to catch up. The damage comparison was without even favored foe, only with the darkslayer thing. Maybe level 7 is worth doing, rogue gets +1d6 while shadow tamer only gets advantage to stealth and some very small stuff. On level 8 when dex goes to +5 ranger benefits more aswell, since he gets dex bonus damage to all three attacks, not only to one like the rogue.

Also on ranger being too strong compared to rogue:
Ranger is stronger than fighters in this game aswell. Solasta gave rangers two massive buffs. Shadow tamer is stronger than any official subclass, and the normal PHB ranger gets no combat benefits from favored foe. Zero.
Giving him both of these at once has catapulted the ranger a good bit ahead of the other martials, I think a shadow tamer is as strong as a paladin now.

 

[Lhynn]

Not having power attack/sharpshooter/crossbow expert really hurts fighters damage numbers, battle masters are like, the most fun fighter subclass and its not in the game.

 

[Parabalus]

shadow-ranger-whatever-the-name is most dmg dealing class in whole game.

Against soraks/few other mobs - sure. Otherwise - hardly.

fanta it is you who keep bringing kangmaker in first place

Yes, quite successful trolling I might say.

Incidentally those guys are also immune to poison.

Sooo for a third time,hope it is the lucky time. How much damage the ranger does max per turn???

It was answered:

Sooo my rogue did:

First attack had: 1d8+1d6 necro+ 1d4 reocuring damage +5 from dex +4 i believe from prof +5d6 sneak. Which is max of 57 and 1d4 per round, then my off hand did 1d8+1 2d6+1 necro + 5 dex and don't remember if prof was possible for offhand, so it ends up at max of 27 damage. So total possible per round of attack was 84 damage per round. On top of that you have a uncanny dodge and another defensive skill that i don't remember.


So what is the pure damage of ranger ? The best bow was storm something and had 1d8 + 1d6 electrical or something similar.

Prof isn't added to damage and rogues can't add attribute bonus to damage with the off hand, need TWF for that, which ranger has.

With the same weapons it comes down to SA 5d6 vs 10+1d8+1d6, latter (ranger) wins on average (but you'd obviously swap OH and MH, dunno why you have a stronger oh even on rogue, do you never haste him?).

But if you use the greataxe of sharpness it's over for the rogue.

Biggest issue is you won't sneak attack every round, especially since the rogue often wins on initiative.

He wins even with the same suboptimal setup, without any other class bonuses.

No idea what's the max, I'm stuck with a shadowcaster rogue and no way I'm replaying.

How does he win? he have just generic damage of d8 and d6 from elemental,his only bonus is getting favourite enemy of which he gets max 4 damage lol. Are fucking messing with me? How are you compensating for the sneak outside of your make believe shit? It is clear that ranger is useless character all around. Both fighter and rogue are better in melee and their range capability is the same lol. Why are you arguing the obvious facts is beyond me. Are you some kind of ranger fanboy or what?

Oh and 24 is not bigger than 30 lol.

You're missing the +10 fixed damage from attributes which rogue doesn't get, 5 from extra MH swing and 5 from applying it to OH with TWF fighting style.

Paladin is prob better than all three depending on how much smite you spam, but rogue is bottom of the barrel.

Darkweaver can also have his bonus prof damage pretty much all the time

Is the description bugged and it also applies to melee or what?

 

[Thac0]

Ok tier list time:

Caster tier:
1. Clerics
2. Wizards

Martial tier:
3. Paladin
4. Ranger (dark, otherwise below rogue)
5. Rogue
6. Fighter

 

[fantadomat]

. That subclass is nuts.

How comes? It is just 4 damage and 4 attack at best. It is nothing special. Nothing compared to 5d6 sneak.

Ranger has quite a bit of stuff in the class itself. Hunter's Mark for +1d6, extra attack, fighting style for +2 damage or +2 accuracy (bow or duelling, more if you want dual wielding), healing spells and summons deep late. As a tradeoff the subclasses are all pretty shit, hunter is only +4,5 to damage against hurt targets once per turn for example.
If you take the potent base kit of ranger and put that much more raw damage and accuracy on top he melts enemies.

Damage comparison at level 5, dual wielding Whiteburn and Frostburn dagger for both (I think you can get both very early) and dex+4

Rogue: 2d6+5 + 1d4+1d8+1 + (3d6)
12 + 8 + 10,5
30,5

Ranger: 2d6+8+1d6 + 1d4+1d8+8+1d6 + 2d6+8+1d6
10,5 + 8 + 10,5 + 8 + 10,5+8
49,5

With hunters mark active at level 5, and darkslayer extra damage active ranger outdamages rogue hard
If you do not get the +3 from subclass it is still 30,5 damage against 40,5 if all things hit. Only if you subtract hunters mark (10,5 damage for 3 hits) does the rogue outdamage the ranger at level 5, and only barely. Fighting style two weapon fighting adds full ability score to second hand attack, and one extra attack with all the magical weapons laying around in Solasta is a lot of damage.
On higher level this comparison only gets worse for the rogue, each time proficiency bonus raises he gets +1 damage to each of the three attacks.

Your math on the rogue is off. Why use a dagger when you could go for double rapier and why only 4 dex bonus? Also why calculate it only at level 5 and not at end level to see the total damage output? Also what is this hunter's mark,haven't seen it in the wiki? Is that the bonus for favourite enemies ?

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Why use a dagger when you could go for double rapier

Isn't rapier does not count as light weapon, so rogue cannot attack twice per turn with rapier in both hands? Or this can be bypassed somehow?

 

[Parabalus]

. That subclass is nuts.

How comes? It is just 4 damage and 4 attack at best. It is nothing special. Nothing compared to 5d6 sneak.

Ranger has quite a bit of stuff in the class itself. Hunter's Mark for +1d6, extra attack, fighting style for +2 damage or +2 accuracy (bow or duelling, more if you want dual wielding), healing spells and summons deep late. As a tradeoff the subclasses are all pretty shit, hunter is only +4,5 to damage against hurt targets once per turn for example.
If you take the potent base kit of ranger and put that much more raw damage and accuracy on top he melts enemies.

Damage comparison at level 5, dual wielding Whiteburn and Frostburn dagger for both (I think you can get both very early) and dex+4

Rogue: 2d6+5 + 1d4+1d8+1 + (3d6)
12 + 8 + 10,5
30,5

Ranger: 2d6+8+1d6 + 1d4+1d8+8+1d6 + 2d6+8+1d6
10,5 + 8 + 10,5 + 8 + 10,5+8
49,5

With hunters mark active at level 5, and darkslayer extra damage active ranger outdamages rogue hard
If you do not get the +3 from subclass it is still 30,5 damage against 40,5 if all things hit. Only if you subtract hunters mark (10,5 damage for 3 hits) does the rogue outdamage the ranger at level 5, and only barely. Fighting style two weapon fighting adds full ability score to second hand attack, and one extra attack with all the magical weapons laying around in Solasta is a lot of damage.
On higher level this comparison only gets worse for the rogue, each time proficiency bonus raises he gets +1 damage to each of the three attacks.

Your math on the rogue is off. Why use a dagger when you could go for double rapier and why only 4 dex bonus? Also why calculate it only at level 5 and not at end level to see the total damage output? Also what is this hunter's mark,haven't seen it in the wiki? Is that the bonus for favourite enemies ?

The better weapons you use the worse for the rogue since ranger gets an extra swing.

Ok tier list time:

Caster tier:
1. Clerics
2. Wizards

Martial tier:
3. Paladin
4. Ranger (dark, otherwise below rogue)
5. Rogue
6. Fighter

Battle clerics are prob pretty high on the martial list too.

Above rogues definitely.

 

[Thac0]

Also what is this hunter's mark,haven't seen it in the wiki?

Strong ranger exclusive spell.
https://solastacrownofthemagister.wiki.fextralife.com/Hunter's+Mark
Math is actually a bit off, because that one takes a bonus action, so you do less damage the turn you apply it.
To do the math properly I would have to do two turns damage comparison, since my ranger rotation was:
Turn 1: Hunters mark + shoot longbow twice Turn 2: Three attacks in melee

Why use a dagger when you could go for double rapier and why only 4 dex bonus?

Because you can get only +4 dex on a point buy character by level 5.
Also you can't wield double rapier unless you disable some rules or take a feat. Whatever you do, the ranger can do the same anyway. Higher damage dice on the weapons is worse for the rogue as the ranger gets to strike more often.

Also as I said, this math gets a lot worse for the rogue as the level gets higher. On max level a well built ranger leaves the rogue in the dust, if you do start with same stats.

Ranger is more clunky to play because no cunning action, also strangely more squishy because no evasion/defense on reaction. But after 5 he hits a lot harder.
Wild card is the poison thing jackofshadows mentioned, I have not seen that in action, but the game has potent poison. Even against all the poison resistant enemies that might give rogue a leg up.