Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Oliiver]

Also tried the others L5 Mage spells : only Hold Monster seems to work properly ... nice to hold 4 draconians per cast .
Cone of cold, Cloud kill, Feeblemind don't seem to affect targets.
I'm unsure for the bestow curse and poison spells, but PFG seems to confer some protection, and spells cause serious wounds, cause blindness or cause disease work as they should (target has to be at contact).
I think the #44 Cleric "Bestow Curse" should work, but i repeatedly got 'unaffected' effect on targets, while the #100 bestow curse does not seem to affect anything.
Also tried Level 5 cleric spells, without any luck.

 

[Joonas]

Thanks Oliiver, saw your post. Spell indexes in scrolls are actually in same order as spells in character / monster data records, so you can figure the index values from those. Check the "Resources\Character file formats\"-folder under GBC. At the time I didn't include evil / unofficial spells, but might do so at some point. The un-id byte clearing for scrolls in SGE is a bug.

 

[Metro]

Curse of the Azure Bonds
Headed south to go after the red wizard of Thay.

I had some trouble with the drow lord (Burly?) on the way down the tower, as he was capable with a good roll of one-shotting most of my characters. Luckily the game allows you to rest prior to facing him. I memorized and then cast a bunch of buffing spells (bless, prayer, haste, protection from evil) before the combat, and was even able to get Slow to stick on the drow lord during combat, which seriously decreased his lethality.

My enlarged/hasted fighter/thief landed the final blow with an ultra-satisfying backstab that did 64 damage. It was a thing of beauty.

The rest of the tower was not very difficult, and I relied on my fighters for most of the fixed and random encounters. I had some trouble the first attempt at the final battle in the courtyard, but spread my characters out during the second attempt and focused on the guards before sending my fighter/thief hulked up and insane with rage like Jason Vorhees to stalk the Dracandros himself. However, the red wizard apparently escaped at some point (or maybe the game glitched?) and I found myself suddenly winning the battle.

Enjoy CoAB. Secret of the Silver Blades can get kind of sloggy and the setting is limited in terms of geography. Still decent, but the worst in the FR series.

 

[Cael]

Also tried the others L5 Mage spells : only Hold Monster seems to work properly ... nice to hold 4 draconians per cast .
Cone of cold, Cloud kill, Feeblemind don't seem to affect targets.
I'm unsure for the bestow curse and poison spells, but PFG seems to confer some protection, and spells cause serious wounds, cause blindness or cause disease work as they should (target has to be at contact).
I think the #44 Cleric "Bestow Curse" should work, but i repeatedly got 'unaffected' effect on targets, while the #100 bestow curse does not seem to affect anything.
Also tried Level 5 cleric spells, without any luck.

Did you take into account spell resistance? Dracs have that.

 

[Null Null]

Bestow Curse (and a lot of the reversed 'cure' spells) require a to-hit roll AND a failed save...still if you got the others to work it may have been removed.

One thing with Animate Dead you could try is casting it on a dead character of yours. That was one of the two applications in Pool of Radiance (the other being animating dead human enemies, which you tried). I wouldn't be too surprised if it's been totally removed, though, given what you've said.

Oh, and if you ever get bored...Secret has a 'tribble' race that can't be created normally but can be changed to using an editor.

 

[dmwyvern]

Hi Team!

This thread is an absolute gold mine of tips and strategies for the Gold Box series. I am planning an eventual playthrough of every title for my YouTube channel.

I do have one question about the Pools series. I understand that demihuman PCs will face severe level cap restrictions in PoD compared to human PCs. Is it still possible to complete PoD with a largely multi classed demihuman party? I have no plans to take on Dave's Challenge, mind you.

 

[Cael]

Hi Team!

This thread is an absolute gold mine of tips and strategies for the Gold Box series. I am planning an eventual playthrough of every title for my YouTube channel.

I do have one question about the Pools series. I understand that demihuman PCs will face severe level cap restrictions in PoD compared to human PCs. Is it still possible to complete PoD with a largely multi classed demihuman party? I have no plans to take on Dave's Challenge, mind you.

I doubt it. Level cap is about 40. Demi-human cap is about 5-10.

 

[octavius]

ProphetSword has done it, I think.

 

[Null Null]

Hi Team!

This thread is an absolute gold mine of tips and strategies for the Gold Box series. I am planning an eventual playthrough of every title for my YouTube channel.

I do have one question about the Pools series. I understand that demihuman PCs will face severe level cap restrictions in PoD compared to human PCs. Is it still possible to complete PoD with a largely multi classed demihuman party? I have no plans to take on Dave's Challenge, mind you.

Seriously, don't. Doing a full Pool-to-Pools run with demihumans is less 'suboptimal but fun for flavor purposes' and more 'nearly impossible and would require hundreds of reloads'.

1st ed rules are really bad for demihumans: dwarves are capped at 9 for fighters, half-elves at 8 and elves at 11 for mages, and that's with max STR and INT. Everyone else is even lower. If you really want to put a demihuman in your party, use a dwarven fighter/thief (make sure STR is at 18 and CON is at 19), who remains reasonable in combat and has a few extra HP, or a half-elven or elven fighter/mage/thief, who can buff the party and themselves for fighting. (Remember that elves can't be raised from the dead, so you'll have to reload if they die.)

 

[Cael]

Hi Team!

This thread is an absolute gold mine of tips and strategies for the Gold Box series. I am planning an eventual playthrough of every title for my YouTube channel.

I do have one question about the Pools series. I understand that demihuman PCs will face severe level cap restrictions in PoD compared to human PCs. Is it still possible to complete PoD with a largely multi classed demihuman party? I have no plans to take on Dave's Challenge, mind you.

Seriously, don't. Doing a full Pool-to-Pools run with demihumans is less 'suboptimal but fun for flavor purposes' and more 'nearly impossible and would require hundreds of reloads'.

1st ed rules are really bad for demihumans: dwarves are capped at 9 for fighters, half-elves at 8 and elves at 11 for mages, and that's with max STR and INT. Everyone else is even lower. If you really want to put a demihuman in your party, use a dwarven fighter/thief (make sure STR is at 18 and CON is at 19), who remains reasonable in combat and has a few extra HP, or a half-elven or elven fighter/mage/thief, who can buff the party and themselves for fighting. (Remember that elves can't be raised from the dead, so you'll have to reload if they die.)

Half-elves are fine. Full elves get the shaft.

If you want to play demi-humans in Gold Box, play the Krynn series. It is far more demi-human friendly.

 

[octavius]

(Remember that elves can't be raised from the dead, so you'll have to reload if they die.)

Resurrection works on Elves in the Forgotten Realms games.

 

[Dorateen]

Dwarf fighter, elf fighter/magic-user and halfling fighter/thief in the party. It is possible to complete Pools of Darkness with such a composition.

 

[octavius]

I tried to complete Curse of the Azure Bonds with an all incloosive party. With a Cleric limited to lvl 5 my quest came to an end when we met a group of Wyverns.

 

[dmwyvern]

Seriously, don't. Doing a full Pool-to-Pools run with demihumans is less 'suboptimal but fun for flavor purposes' and more 'nearly impossible and would require hundreds of reloads'.

1st ed rules are really bad for demihumans: dwarves are capped at 9 for fighters, half-elves at 8 and elves at 11 for mages, and that's with max STR and INT. Everyone else is even lower. If you really want to put a demihuman in your party, use a dwarven fighter/thief (make sure STR is at 18 and CON is at 19), who remains reasonable in combat and has a few extra HP, or a half-elven or elven fighter/mage/thief, who can buff the party and themselves for fighting. (Remember that elves can't be raised from the dead, so you'll have to reload if they die.)

Hey Null!

I have read your postings about the Gold Box games from FRUA the Community Forums:

http://ua.reonis.com/

If anyone would know what is reasonably possible in a PoR to PoD playthrough, it would be you. I'll take your word for it.

I am thinking to run with a demihuman party from PoR to the beginning of the SoSB and then switch out for an entirely human party. Here is the setup I am considering:

Human Paladin
Elf Fighter / Mage
Elf Fighter / Mage
Dwarf Fighter / Cleric
Human Magic User
Human Cleric

... I've heard that you don't really need thieves, so I am going to forgo including one in favor of extra arcane power. How does this look to you and the rest of the Codexers? Viable until Secrets of the Silver Blades?

 

[octavius]

Don't underestimate the power of a Fighter/Thief's backstab. In Curse of the Azure Bonds I wished I had a party of them when fighting the Drow. When magic doesn't work or enemies have so low AC that your fighters can hardly hit, a well places -Backstab!- will save the say.

A Dwarf is of limited value as a Cleric but has no restrictions as a Thief, and only misses 0.5 APR as a F/T.
Better to use the Paladin a secondary healer.

 

[dmwyvern]

Don't underestimate the power of a Fighter/Thief's backstab. In Cure of the Azure Bonds I wished I had a party of them when fighting the Drow. When magic doesn't work or enemies have so low AC that your fighters can hardlt hit, a well places -Backstab!- will save the say.

A Dwarf is of limited value as a Priest but has no restrictions as a Thief, and only miss 0.5 AP as a F/T.
Better to use the Paladin a secondary healer.

Great tip on thinking to include a Dwarf Fighter / Thief!


How does this look to you now?

Human Paladin
Elf Fighter / Mage
Dwarf / Fighter Thief
Human Magic User A
Human Magic User B
Human Cleric

 

[octavius]

Yeah, that looks pretty good.
I would consider making one of the magic users a Ranger instead and dual class to Mage at lvl 8 or 14 (IIRC you'll need 15 STR, 15 WIS and 17 INT). That's the stongest possible character in the game, and mine was last man standing in the final battles of Pools of Darkness.

 

[Null Null]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. But they always tell you to consult multiple sources. That's a lot harder to do with semi-obscure 30-year-old games, of course. But you don't have to take my word for it--it's in the manuals.

I agree with Octavius; the backstab is useful against magic-resistant enemies.

Paladin, fighter/mage, fighter/thief, ranger->mage, mage, cleric sounds pretty reasonable for Pool and Curse. Don't forget that you can't make a ranger or paladin in Pool without Gold Box Companion (the classes hadn't been fully coded in at the time the game was made.)

 

[Cael]

Yeah, that looks pretty good.
I would consider making one of the magic users a Ranger instead and dual class to Mage at lvl 8 or 14 (IIRC you'll need 15 STR, 15 WIS and 17 INT). That's the stongest possible character in the game, and mine was last man standing in the final battles of Pools of Darkness.

Humans dual classing has always been the strongest possible in the FR GB games. I ran with a party of 3x Pal/Mage + 3x Rng/Mag back in the day. There is a hard limit of 3x Rng per party, unfortunately.

 

[dmwyvern]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. But they always tell you to consult multiple sources. That's a lot harder to do with semi-obscure 30-year-old games, of course. But you don't have to take my word for it--it's in the manuals.

I agree with Octavius; the backstab is useful against magic-resistant enemies.

Paladin, fighter/mage, fighter/thief, ranger->mage, mage, cleric sounds pretty reasonable for Pool and Curse. Don't forget that you can't make a ranger or paladin in Pool without Gold Box Companion (the classes hadn't been fully coded in at the time the game was made.)

Hey Null / Codexers!

Need some help planning the Party Strength for my playthrough. According to the incomparable Stephen S. Lee's GameFAQ on this game, it is:

A character's contribution to Party Strength is the sum of:
* 0.4 * cleric level
* 0.8 * magic-user level
* 0.5 * each point of AC below 0 (0 if AC is 0 or above)
* 0.5 * each point of THAC0 below 21 (0 if THAC0 is 21 or above)
* 0.1 * current hit points
rounded down to the nearest integer. The values used for AC and THAC0 are the ones shown on your character screen.

Party Strength is the above contributions for every character summed.

How do character attributes impact random encounter difficulty, if at all? Looks like PoR does not check for character attributes beyond AC and current HP.

Also, can you get through PoD without bumping your PCs up to max HP cheese?

 

[Null Null]

Party Strength only matters in Pool of Radiance. It shows up in a few minor encounters in Curse and never again. I brought it up in the discussion on hacking FRUA thieves as a way to estimate strength of custom classes, not as a guide to party construction...sorry!

If you have a high Party Strength, random encounters (particularly in the Slums, Kuto's Well, Podol Plaza, the Temple of Bane, and the wilderness) get annoyingly large; this mostly manifests in parties with large numbers of magic-users or low AC. I believe you are on two mages now, which is pretty standard and should be OK. You might want to make sure if you've maxed out your DEX (wise for later games) you're not carrying around too many guys with -1 ACs through the slums (you can always opt for chainmail or ready your shield in combat.)

I'd also argue for dealing with the Slums, Kuto's Well, and Podol Plaza early in the game for just this reason.

You can get through PoD without savescumming HP, it's just harder.

 

[dmwyvern]

You can get through PoD without savescumming HP, it's just harder.

Awesome. Thanks Null!

How much harder are we talking here? Like, will it be a little more challenging or multiple reloads infuriating? :D

Also, beyond AC modifiers and HP totals, how do character attributes impact random encounter difficulty, if at all?

 

[Null Null]

You're going to have multiple reloads either way. You seem really set on using the same party (I assume you are using GBC to create Rangers and Paladins in Pool? I've never done this), so I say go for it.

You mean the big six? STR and DEX will affect THAC0, and CON will affect HP. Assuming Mr. Lee is correct, I don't think there would be any further effect. Once you get past Pool any incentive not to max out your characters' ability scores vanishes, to be honest.

I did fighter, fighter, fighter, fighter/mage/thief, cleric, mage. I dualled one of my fighters to a mage in Secret and another to a cleric in Pools.

I've beaten Pool with six fighters and with a single cleric/fighter/mage and a single fighter/mage/thief; Pool is forgiving, the later games less so.

 

[Harlin]

Pool of Radiance ludicrously-detailed guide updated to v1.40: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/564785-pool-of-radiance/faqs/73869

Additions and fixes:

• Overhauled location numbers to mostly match those actually used by the game, and by Gold Box Companion and Gold Box Explorer. (I hadn't known about any of these before I wrote the original version.) There are still places where I don't use the internal numbering, to keep things simpler. This all makes this version incompatible with all previous versions, if going into that level of detail.
• Split each map section into an overview section and a details section.
• Added more game text.
• Added coordinates to map annotations, if not ambiguous.
• Added full section on Wilderness Lairs.
• Added formalized list of bugs. (This is not comprehensive by any means.)
• Added detail on how to successfully backstab.
• Added yet another reason not to use NPCs: they make random combats larger.
• Added strategy for using Animate Dead.
• You can in fact fight Ogre Leaders, in the Wealthy Area or Temple of Bane. It requires a high Party Strength to have any chance of happening (at least 66) and is unlikely even then.
• Snake Charm and Animate Dead scale to caster level, not caster hit points.
• Dust of Disappearance will work even against enemies that see invisible, and is supposed to.
• Magical armor never actually provides a saving throw bonus.
• Rings of Protection rarely actually provide a saving throw bonus. The only one I know of where that actually works is the one carried by the THEURGIST (#110). (Another case where I was led astray by that working more reliably in the sequels.)
• The Wand of Paralyzation can bypass Tyranthraxus's magic resistance.
• Added more executable offsets: classes allowed by race, statistics by class.
• Civilized Area: more detail on available NPCs.
• Civilized Area: clarified that you must explicitly receive the commission for Podal Plaza to both perform and be rewarded for it.
• Slums: the script doesn't check if you ran away before crediting you with victory against a set combat.
• Slums: add description of bug that allows you to clear the area without fighting any set combats.
• Sokal Keep: searching for the diary only works reliably if you were told about it by the spectral defenders.
• Mendor's Library: more detail, including mechanics for green slime in the garden.
• Podal Plaza: parley mechanics expanded and corrected.
• Cadorna Textile House: you can't ever get all the random encounters without defeating the ogre.
• Cadorna Textile House: added exploit which allows you to open the Cadorna family treasure repeatedly.
• Wealthy Area: random encounter probability corrected.
• Wealthy Area: added detail on how random encounters are constructed and resolved.
• Wealthy Area: the four-orc patrol counts as encountered as long as you do anything other than fight them.
• Nomad Camp: the Shaman's Bracers AC 2 is actually AC 4.
• Yarash's Pyramid: now split into two separate sections, both for clarity and because that's how the game handles it internally.
• Buccaneer Base: resting is disturbed by the next random encounter, if active.
• Valhingen Graveyard: the two-handed sword vs. undead isn't actually a good choice here.
• Stojanow Gate: more detail and accuracy.

 

[dmwyvern]

Pool of Radiance ludicrously-detailed guide updated to v1.40: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/564785-pool-of-radiance/faqs/73869

Additions and fixes:

• Overhauled location numbers to mostly match those actually used by the game, and by Gold Box Companion and Gold Box Explorer. (I hadn't known about any of these before I wrote the original version.) There are still places where I don't use the internal numbering, to keep things simpler. This all makes this version incompatible with all previous versions, if going into that level of detail.
• Split each map section into an overview section and a details section.
• Added more game text.
• Added coordinates to map annotations, if not ambiguous.
• Added full section on Wilderness Lairs.
• Added formalized list of bugs. (This is not comprehensive by any means.)
• Added detail on how to successfully backstab.
• Added yet another reason not to use NPCs: they make random combats larger.
• Added strategy for using Animate Dead.
• You can in fact fight Ogre Leaders, in the Wealthy Area or Temple of Bane. It requires a high Party Strength to have any chance of happening (at least 66) and is unlikely even then.
• Snake Charm and Animate Dead scale to caster level, not caster hit points.
• Dust of Disappearance will work even against enemies that see invisible, and is supposed to.
• Magical armor never actually provides a saving throw bonus.
• Rings of Protection rarely actually provide a saving throw bonus. The only one I know of where that actually works is the one carried by the THEURGIST (#110). (Another case where I was led astray by that working more reliably in the sequels.)
• The Wand of Paralyzation can bypass Tyranthraxus's magic resistance.
• Added more executable offsets: classes allowed by race, statistics by class.
• Civilized Area: more detail on available NPCs.
• Civilized Area: clarified that you must explicitly receive the commission for Podal Plaza to both perform and be rewarded for it.
• Slums: the script doesn't check if you ran away before crediting you with victory against a set combat.
• Slums: add description of bug that allows you to clear the area without fighting any set combats.
• Sokal Keep: searching for the diary only works reliably if you were told about it by the spectral defenders.
• Mendor's Library: more detail, including mechanics for green slime in the garden.
• Podal Plaza: parley mechanics expanded and corrected.
• Cadorna Textile House: you can't ever get all the random encounters without defeating the ogre.
• Cadorna Textile House: added exploit which allows you to open the Cadorna family treasure repeatedly.
• Wealthy Area: random encounter probability corrected.
• Wealthy Area: added detail on how random encounters are constructed and resolved.
• Wealthy Area: the four-orc patrol counts as encountered as long as you do anything other than fight them.
• Nomad Camp: the Shaman's Bracers AC 2 is actually AC 4.
• Yarash's Pyramid: now split into two separate sections, both for clarity and because that's how the game handles it internally.
• Buccaneer Base: resting is disturbed by the next random encounter, if active.
• Valhingen Graveyard: the two-handed sword vs. undead isn't actually a good choice here.
• Stojanow Gate: more detail and accuracy.

Very cool! Thanks for this Harlin!