Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[ProphetSword]

ProphetSword = rabid Gold-Box fan. Sounds about right.

 

[felipepepe]

BTW, I told David Klein about Douglas Wood's attempt at Phantasie V and he replied:

I have been in touch with Douglas Wood. So, we'll certainly see what the future holds as I have many fond memories of Phantasie myself!

 

[Comte]

Good stuff BUT I am not sure about the end part.

SSI went from perhaps 30 to 70+ employees on the back of the Gold Box engine. When it became tired, the company struggled to reposition itself. Dark Sun and M had to be bigger games to compete, but management really wished they'd have the same budget as Gold Box. Also, as a publisher, the dynamics of the rising console market were wreaking havoc with cost of goods and inventory. It was at the cancellation of M and the revising of Dark Sun, that SSI jettisoned most of its internal development team, and positioned itself for eventual sale. The formula that had worked for a dozen years no longer made economic sense.

I thought that the Panzer General wargame series was a big seller for SSI and helped keep the company afloat for some time.

 

[Kersey]

I thought that the Panzer General wargame series was a big seller for SSI and helped keep the company afloat for some time.

Panzer General was released only shortly after SSI had already been sold.

 

[Comte]

Panzer General was released only shortly after SSI had already been sold.

Yeah your right. Started looking for info on SSI after posting above.

 

[Kirben]

The Ring of Feather Falling in Pool of Radiance seemed like it was meant for the Thieves Guild in the well of Candorna's Textile House, but they forgot to add the check. As any character that was not a thief would fall and take damage, when attempting to climb down. I remember been annoyed when the ring failed to have any effect in that situation.

I'm not surprised the Savage Frontier series sold so poorly, the first game was really poorly handled, and most people would have been turned off by their experience:
Gateway to the Savage Frontier was based off a much older games engine (from Curse of the Azure Bonds) for some strange reason.
Gateway to the Savage Frontier felt incomplete, with many towns hinting at possible side quests that didn't exist.
The Amiga port of Gateway to the Savage Frontier was buggy, lacked a hard disk install option and even included note to save frequently due to the bugs!
The Commodore 64 port of Gateway to the Savage Frontier was not even finished. They couldn't be bothered to add back newer features (i.e. auto spell re-memorization) again, and re-used various older artwork from other games, instead of porting all the new artwork.

I originally played Gateway to the Savage Frontier on the Commodore 64, and was really disappointed at the state that game was released in. It was a real shame the Commodore 64 ports ended with that terrible version, rather than the well done port of Death Knights of Krynn

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Great first post! Welcome to the Codex!

 

[octavius]

I'm not surprised the Savage Frontier series sold so poorly, the first game was really poorly handled, and most people would have been turned off by their experience:
Gateway to the Savage Frontier was based off a much older games engine (from Curse of the Azure Bonds) for some strange reason.
Gateway to the Savage Frontier felt incomplete, with many towns hinting at possible side quests that didn't exist.
The Amiga port of Gateway to the Savage Frontier was buggy, lacked a hard disk install option and even included note to save frequently due to the bugs!
The Commodore 64 port of Gateway to the Savage Frontier was not even finished. They couldn't be bothered to add back newer features (i.e. auto spell re-memorization) again, and re-used various older artwork from other games, instead of porting all the new artwork.

I originally played Gateway to the Savage Frontier on the Commodore 64, and was really disappointed at the state that game was released in. It was a real shame the Commodore 64 ports ended with that terrible version, rather than the well done port of Death Knights of Krynn

I'm surprised the Savage Frontier games sold so poorly, since Gateway was on the top of CGW's bestseller list for several months.
I played the Amiga version of Gateway and I don't recall any problems. What was the biggest letdown for me was the very poor encounter design compared to earlier GB games (it was done by the same guy that later would design the infamour Ruins of Myh Drannor). Fortunately that was mostly fixed in Treasures, but by the time Treasures was released I think most people were tired of the GB games, so it was probably Treasures that caused the overall poor sales for the SF series, even though Treasure was superior to Gateway.

 

[Kirben]

I played the Amiga version of Gateway and I don't recall any problems. What was the biggest letdown for me was the very poor encounter design compared to earlier GB games (it was done by the same guy that later would design the infamour Ruins of Myh Drannor). Fortunately that was mostly fixed in Treasures, but by the time Treasures was released I think most people were tired of the GB games, so it was probably Treasures that caused the overall poor sales for the SF series, even though Treasure was superior to Gateway.

You were lucky not to have any issues with the Amiga port, there were many reports of problems, and there was a review in local magazine (Australian Commodore Amiga Review) complaining about these various issues.

The quick reference card for the Amiga port actually states:
IMPORTANT NOTE: You must save the game at least once every hour, or the game may fail. If failure occurs, you may restart the game from your last save.

I think the real problem was Gateway to the Savage Frontier been based off a much older game engine, and been rushed out too quickly. The developers didn't seem to have time to add back all the newer features, or flesh out the story (side quests), or add anything new/significant to the game engine.

 

[ProphetSword]

As was already mentioned, the Gateway series was done by a different development team. They were probably given an out of date engine from SSI, and that might have been for numerous reasons (like maybe they were working on updating it for their own titles).

Even still, they added a bunch of interesting features that didn't exist outside of the Gateway series that I wish had made it into "Unlimited Adventures," like underwater combat and the ability to call for reinforcements.

 

[octavius]

The one great thing that saved Gateway for me, and made slogging through all those boring encounters worth it, was the final battles where you had to fight three or more difficult battles without resting between. A bit lame that you didn't have to kill the Zhentil leader to win the game though.

 

[Dorateen]

Even still, they added a bunch of interesting features that didn't exist outside of the Gateway series that I wish had made it into "Unlimited Adventures," like underwater combat and the ability to call for reinforcements.

We did get underwater combat in Dark Queen of Krynn, though.

 

[ProphetSword]

Unfortunately, that's the only Gold-Box game I've never completed. Not because I didn't like it, but because of a game breaking bug that occurs during it that stops all progress and keeps the party from continuing. I've never been able to find a PC version of the game that doesn't have the bug. So, I've never been able to make a whole lot of progress with it.

 

[Kirben]

As was already mentioned, the Gateway series was done by a different development team. They were probably given an out of date engine from SSI, and that might have been for numerous reasons (like maybe they were working on updating it for their own titles).

Even still, they added a bunch of interesting features that didn't exist outside of the Gateway series that I wish had made it into "Unlimited Adventures," like underwater combat and the ability to call for reinforcements.

Underwater combat was not added until the Dark Queen of Krynn, where spells were actually adjusted. Gateway to the Savage Frontier only offered a single battle against Squids, which simply disabled certain spells (i.e. Fireball, Lightning) before the combat even started.

Reinforcements were added in Treasures of the Savage Frontier, along with weather effects during wilderness travel, and the romance angle between two characters in the party.

Gateway to the Savage Frontier failed to add anything new or significant to the game engine.

The one great thing that saved Gateway for me, and made slogging through all those boring encounters worth it, was the final battles where you had to fight three or more difficult battles without resting between. A bit lame that you didn't have to kill the Zhentil leader to win the game though.

The worst part was the game never even considers the party might defeat the Zhentil leader, so the end sequence isn't changed.

 

[ProphetSword]

Underwater combat was not added until the Dark Queen of Krynn, where spells were actually adjusted. Gateway to the Savage Frontier only offered a single battle against Squids, which simply disabled certain spells (i.e. Fireball, Lightning) before the combat even started.

Reinforcements were added in Treasures of the Savage Frontier, along with weather effects during wilderness travel, and the romance angle between two characters in the party.

Gateway to the Savage Frontier failed to add anything new or significant to the game engine.

Ah. Thanks for the clarifications. I guess I'm remembering it wrong.

 

[Null Null]

As was already mentioned, the Gateway series was done by a different development team. They were probably given an out of date engine from SSI, and that might have been for numerous reasons (like maybe they were working on updating it for their own titles).

Even still, they added a bunch of interesting features that didn't exist outside of the Gateway series that I wish had made it into "Unlimited Adventures," like underwater combat and the ability to call for reinforcements.

Underwater combat was not added until the Dark Queen of Krynn, where spells were actually adjusted. Gateway to the Savage Frontier only offered a single battle against Squids, which simply disabled certain spells (i.e. Fireball, Lightning) before the combat even started.

Reinforcements were added in Treasures of the Savage Frontier, along with weather effects during wilderness travel, and the romance angle between two characters in the party.

Gateway to the Savage Frontier failed to add anything new or significant to the game engine.

The one great thing that saved Gateway for me, and made slogging through all those boring encounters worth it, was the final battles where you had to fight three or more difficult battles without resting between. A bit lame that you didn't have to kill the Zhentil leader to win the game though.

The worst part was the game never even considers the party might defeat the Zhentil leader, so the end sequence isn't changed.

I always figured the guy regenerated (remember, he did during combat), so even if you killed him he came back afterward. Though you did get to swipe his stuff, even if you lost it in the next game.

There was apparently a hacked FRUA game where someone managed to turn on the underwater combat. One of the Ravenloft conversions.

Interestingly, as regards DQK, I remember I once had the option to pick up the Book of Amrocar in the dumbwaiter before fighting Trandamere's minions. It was also apparently possible to fight them and not get the book if you came in the front door, making the game unwinnable. Someone screwed up their event processing for that dungeon/scenario.

 

[Smashing Axe]

I managed to get PoR to work on my machine and save games properly. If I wanted to play through the entire series, should I even consider making demi-human characters given that all of them reach a level cap of 8th or 9th except for thieves? Should I just go human? I don't really want to get through half the series only to find out that one of my characters ain't going to progress any further at all.

 

[octavius]

The only viable demihumans are Dwarf or Half-Elf Fighter/Thieves IMO. Just make sure they have enough STR to reach lvl 7 to get that extra half attack per round.
Especially in Curse of the Azure Bonds a backstabber was nice to have, but he was pretty useless in the final areas of Pools of Darkness.

 

[Smashing Axe]

The only viable demihumans are Dwarf or Half-Elf Fighter/Thieves IMO. Just make sure they have enough STR to reach lvl 7 to get that extra half attack per round.
Especially in Curse of the Azure Bonds a backstabber was nice to have, but he was pretty useless in the final areas of Pools of Darkness.

What about an elven fighter/mage/thief? Fighter and mage reach the level cap, then full thief. It may give a bit of versatility later on. Are thieves only good for backstabbing, or do they have some utility as well?

 

[Trash]

The two Buck Roger games where some of my earliest experiences with the rpg genre and I love them to this day. Anyone ever made a fanmade sequel or something akin to it for Goldbox? With the amount of time poured into fanmade FRUA modules I can't imagine anything worthwhile and SF not having been made. Yet, I can't find 'em.

 

[rezaf]

What about an elven fighter/mage/thief? Fighter and mage reach the level cap, then full thief. It may give a bit of versatility later on. Are thieves only good for backstabbing, or do they have some utility as well?

In some of the Goldbox games, there's locks to pick or (very rarely) feats to perform, but in both cases it's usually possible to reach the goal by other means (Knock spell, brute force, some other means).
And multiclassed non-humans ... when I first played Pool of Radiance all those years back on the C64, I remember having basically a party full of Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric/Magic-User's. Awesome versatility, covering all the bases with the same character ... those were the days!
Needless to say, this is only really a viable party in PoR, and even there it can reach it's class limitations, but still...

Later on, I only played single-classed humans and MAYBE a single non-human thief. In the Dragonlance games I always took a Kender along. Other than that, all humans. More often than not, I'd even avoid dual-classing, though it could sure be useful.
I'd import the same dudes through all the games of a series, even hex-edited their class from Fighter to Paladin or Ranger since PoR didn't have those.

Heh, I really should do another GoldBox complete tour one of these days. I used to do them yearly, but the last one was ten years ago or something now.

The two Buck Roger games where some of my earliest experiences with the rpg genre and I love them to this day. Anyone ever made a fanmade sequel or something akin to it for Goldbox? With the amount of time poured into fanmade FRUA modules I can't imagine anything worthwhile and SF not having been made. Yet, I can't find 'em.

FRUA didn't really support the scifi stuff, which was a huge obstacle.
Still, I have fond memories of Harri Polsa's "Jade" series of modules. It's a bit on the "adults only" side and rather light on combat, but firmly scifi.
The titles of that series are As Seen Through the Eyes of Jade, GPCP Part 1 and Part 2 and The Last Days of Autumn.
_____
rezaf

 

[Ladonna]

In the Dragonlance games the other races could max out on certain classes. Kender for thief, Dwarf fighter (maybe Ranger too), Elf Mage and cleric.

 

[octavius]

The only viable demihumans are Dwarf or Half-Elf Fighter/Thieves IMO. Just make sure they have enough STR to reach lvl 7 to get that extra half attack per round.
Especially in Curse of the Azure Bonds a backstabber was nice to have, but he was pretty useless in the final areas of Pools of Darkness.

What about an elven fighter/mage/thief? Fighter and mage reach the level cap, then full thief. It may give a bit of versatility later on. Are thieves only good for backstabbing, or do they have some utility as well?

An Male Elf F/M/T with 18 STR would be viable, as he would be able to reach lvl 7 in Fighter.
The main use of thieves are for backstabbing; very rarely do you need them for anything else.

In the Dragonlance games I always took a Kender along. Other than that, all humans. More often than not, I'd even avoid dual-classing, though it could sure be useful.

Dual classing wasn't even possible in the Krynn games.
As for demi-humans, they were less useless in the Krynn games than in the Forgotten Realms games.
Silvanesti Elf Ranger/Clerics and Qualinesti Fighter/Mages are strong characters, especially the latter.
Dwarf Fighters also make the ultimate Dragonlance wielders if they have 19 CON.

To me the optimal Krynn party would be:
Human Knight
Human White Mage
Dwarf Fighter
Kender Cleric/Thief
Silvanesti Elf Ranger/Cleric
Qualinesti Fighter/Red Mage

 

[ProphetSword]

The two Buck Roger games where some of my earliest experiences with the rpg genre and I love them to this day. Anyone ever made a fanmade sequel or something akin to it for Goldbox? With the amount of time poured into fanmade FRUA modules I can't imagine anything worthwhile and SF not having been made. Yet, I can't find 'em.

I made two Buck Rogers modules for FRUA, one of which was a contest winner. You should look again.

 

[Trash]

The Chaos Factor module? It's neat but also a single short dungeon and the only one I ever found. I'm wondering if anyone ever did a lenghty game akin to the Buck Roger ones. Especially the space travel as it was in the BR games would appear to be rather hard to replicate.