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Star Control: Origins - Star Control reboot from Stardock

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Dr Tomo, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    Big difference between pacifism and skipping manual combat.

    You just set the fights to Cyborg++ and enjoy.

    Personally I fought the Sa-Matra manually but if you leave the combat on auto, it just auto-wins. One thing Origins does right is ask you before every fight if you want to auto-resolve. Unfortunately, as I said before the auto-resolve was programmed by a toddler hyped up on sugar so it's entirely worthless.
     
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  2. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    what
     
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  3. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    My point exactly. It fucking isn't.
     
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  4. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    So you missed the Point as well, just like Stardock?

    The melee combat is the Core of all the Star Control games, the bit in the middle surrounded by all these other gameplay elements, and it's their combined efforts that make the games what they are. Obviously there will be players who don't like the Core that much and prefer the other elements, but that doesn't change the facts. In there also lies the reason why SC2 gets all the love and praise: Because the other parts of SC2 actually work and are enjoyable in addition to the Core, they don't overstay their welcome and are kept smooth and simple. SC1 doesn't get so much praise because there's very little else to it than the Core, and I've yet to find a poor soul who enjoyed the colony management aspects of SC3. Origins then tries its hand and somehow mucks it up, even though it's copying a tried and tested formula.

    The fact that almost all combat in SC2 can be skipped doesn't refute my Point, it emphasizes it. It also shows more brilliant game design at work that there are options available to skip the Core, that's flexibility at work. That's why I brought up Fallout: At heart it's a role-playing game, yet it also has this rather neat combat system. Which part of Fallout is the Core? The character design/interaction? The S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system? The exploration of the Wastes? The combat? Which part of it is the most fun to play? Does the answer to the previous question change what is the Core of Fallout?

    Just because you and some others enjoyed the exploration aspect of SC2 more than the melee mode, doesn't change the fact that the melee mode is what sits at the heart of the game. It is the Core.
     
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  5. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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  6. Grauken Blobbers forever Patron

    Grauken
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    That's retarded on so many levels
     
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  7. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    That's certainly the perspective one would have if approaching SC2 from SC1, for sure. If you came from SC1, you already knew the combat, and thus the adventure part was mostly the wrapper to justify you getting into fights, just like in SC1, you had the melee mode, and then the strategy wrapper to justify why you were getting into fights.

    Of course, the plot was pretty damn good, so some people have come to see THAT as the big deal, and then you have imitators who then try to focus on the plot, while giving a relatively poor experience in the fights...and those haven't honestly panned out well. But honestly, if you think about it, the plot of SC2 never took itself all that seriously and it was mostly just a thing for getting you into fights.

    The Starsector guy seems to understand this, and thus has resisted calls for making the game into something else, like a trading game or something (which he has declared he hates), and instead focuses on the other elements of the game as context for getting into fights.
     
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  8. Grauken Blobbers forever Patron

    Grauken
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    SC1 was just a tech demo, with SC2 they had polished out the kinks and could focus on what really mattered, the actual game
     
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  9. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
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    Yes, but SC1 was a tech demo of FIGHTS.

    I think we can see this in Starsector vs. Starcom: Nexus. Both appear to draw some level of inspiration from SC2, in the sense of "one man wanders the galaxy looking for stuff".

    But StarSector understands that it is about getting in fights, and all the exploration and economy is there as a framing device to provide context to fights: Why you have these things to get in fights with, why are you getting in fights, and how you are going to get more things to get into fights with. The actual plot of the story is currently not really made yet, but people are still gleefully getting into fights.

    StarCom, on the other hand, took the opposite tack, having an SC2-esque story of "one man and his support base exploring the galaxy against the forces of doom out to get them". The problem? The fights are lackluster. The story does a decent enough job providing context for why we get into fights, BUT THE FIGHTS AREN'T ACTUALLY ANY GOOD!
     
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  10. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    The combat is the core of the Infinity Engine, not PST. PST demonstrated what could be done if the emphasis was to distance the game from that, which is very unconventional... but then again there are a lot of unconventional things about PST.

    And your (false) comparison is precisely what Bethesda had in mind when they snapped up Fallout and churned out all of their games: They thought that the combat is the core of Fallout. The Bethesda Fallouts clearly demonstrate that... and they're Wrong.

    You're basing this on the false assumption that SC2 was the game that they intended SC1 to be. The original release candidate for SC2 was just to fly around space, collect resources, build the ships and go fight the Ur-Quan. What happened is that TFB decided to withhold the game and work on it some more for six months. When they finally sent the game over to Accolade they had added the planets and the planet landing mini-game, but most importantly they also added the aliens and the interactions with them. These aspects were not part of the original design document, except in an abstract sense, at best. The design document states, and I quote it: "Star Control II will use much of the code and data developed for Star Control I, and add on a good (though not necessarily epic) role-playing shell."

    Guess what? That shell turned out to be pretty damn epic. It's so epic that you lot can't see past it and see the game underneath it, you think the shell is the game.
     
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  11. Grauken Blobbers forever Patron

    Grauken
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    That's like saying Colony Ship's core is the combat, because the demo is a combat-focused demo, when it's a just an important but not the defining part of the game. Same as for SC2
     
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  12. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    Saying the combat is the core of SC2, or Fallout for that matter is so retarded, everyone in the thread is now stupider after having read it.
     
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  13. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Just coming in to point out that all the posters that are going on about how other posters are retarded or stupider for stating their point, while not actually stating a counterpoint... yeah, thanks, morons. Great to have you here, care to try again?

    No? OK, bye then!
     
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  14. Reality Learned

    Reality
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    I actually tried to put the fabled "all autopilot" adventure mode in SC 2 to the test a few weeks ago -

    It is actually covered reasonably for the entire game … but it does take ship losses that would be seriously facepalmy compared to human play - In my opinion it kind of incentivizes getting full flagships engines and avoiding non-quest combat even harder than in a naturalistic playthrough.

    The main silly things -

    Ur Quan / Kohr Ah *early* throwing the AI controlled ships against them with anything that's NOT a yethat/utwig kind of ends in tragedy, while in human control they will be mowed down en masse by fwiffo - For all intents and purproses the optional fight to rescue the zoq foq pik was the single most interesting part of my playthrough

    Mycon - exceedingly sloppy play against them - AI will throw away both Pfunk and Arilou against them, when they should be pretty trival for a human -- I actually flat out re-ordered the playthrough and did the full Yehat sidequest first. And I don't mean fighting infinite numbers of them in space -- I did it JUST for the 6 guarding the sun device.

    Flagship with Hellbore Cannon - Don't give it to the AI until you have tracking, and even then they let Kohr AH/ UR-Quan do tons of unnecessary damage before winning (usually not lethal if you also take the time to ~200 crew, but it sure isn't the powerboost into godhood it is with human control)

    The AI is fine for everything else VUX/Druuge/Umgah/Thraddash - Ilwrath are kind of a special mention in that Arilou AI tend to work better than any others,(I know you don't need to fight with working cloaks any but for the purposes of simulating a blind playthrough)

    I can't completely judge what this would be like because I played it with human control first, but my impression is that a SC 2 playthrough emphasizing Autopilot combat makes the game feel more "quest-focused" than exploration focused... and while it's true that the AI isn't particularly great if you pick the best ship for the situation at all times (or kill everything with Fwiffo) it completely closes the door to silly, but fun and challenging things you can do with human controlled combat --- learn how to kill Kohr-ah with earthling cruisers, blowing up the Sa-Matra with Druuge instead of boring old Pfunk, and so on.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2020
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  15. Deadyawn Educated

    Deadyawn
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    I'd argue that exploration is the actual core of SC2 since not only is the main gameplay loop but also what you do in between other activities, like resource gathering and combat.
     
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  16. Zombra An iron rock in the river of blood and evil Patron

    Zombra
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    Down to $8 again on gmg, tempted to try this again, please talk me out of it again.
     
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  17. Efe Erudite

    Efe
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    you should definitely try it.
     
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  18. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If skipping content is okay in games, then skipping the game itself oughta be a piece of cake.
     
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  19. <3sRichardSimmons Arcane Patron

    <3sRichardSimmons
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    Eh... I'd say $8 is a decent price for it if you've got nothing better to play. You'll probably get at least 5-10 hours of enjoyment out of it before the package starts to wear thin. I also think it's worth pointing out that SC:O is basically one of those rare games that is less than the sum of its parts. A bunch of ok-to decent systems and writing just come together to make a mediocre whole. Can't speak to whether or not the DLC rectified any of this, but I think Unkillable Cat had a pretty negative response to it.


    Edit: Also, for the record, $40 (which is what I paid for it) is an absolutely absurd price-tag for it. I suspect that they launched at that price-point because they had to justify its extended development time, not because they had confidence in the product.
     
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  20. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Filthy Kalinite Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    https://forums.stardock.net/502901/star-control-end-of-2020-status-report
     
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  21. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    https://www.stardock.com/games/article/506573/star-control-originsversion-15-preview

     
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  22. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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  23. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    Why pleasant? It sucks. A slight visual improvement isn't going to save it.
     
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  24. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    The same reason why slow-mo train wrecks are oddly mesmerising.
     
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  25. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    https://steamcommunity.com/games/starcontrolorigins/announcements/detail/2950409820293818893

     
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