Star Control: Origins - Star Control reboot from Stardock

[Frogboy]

Also, the background of the space Battles will depend on the map as well. I.e. cosmetic differentiation as well as lay out and what’s in it.

For beta 1, a specific arena map was chosen to focus on performance, balance, etc.

For beta 2, there will be an arena editor, share your own maps, etc.

 

[Cael]

By the looks of it Stardock dug themselves into a hole.

They buy the Star Control license for a quarter mil, so they have to make that back by making a game based on it. Not wanting to repeat Legend Entertainment's mistake with Star Control 3, they won't use the characters and races made by Toys for Bob without , so obviously they try to bring them in. But *reasons* prevent that so they have to strike out on their own. Making a sequel seems out of the question, but a prequel... that could work.

So Stardock is making a Star Control game based on the notion that Mankind met space-faring races, in our part of the galaxy, before the Chenjesu arrived at Earth in 2112 and recruited them for the war against the Ur-Quan.

Then Toys for Bob become available for developing a Star Control game and Stardock is faced with a dilemma: Scrap their existing game and hand it over to TfB, or let them have a new title that they can work with from scratch. They chose the latter option, which is better for us Star Control fans, but leaves Stardock and the SC: Origins game in a bit of a pickle. Their only option is to go forward and hope for the best.

Making Origins lore work with Star Control lore is difficult, but not impossible. Off the top of my head, a rimward-bound deep space exploration mission for [PLOT REASON] is doable, as long as the end result is that Mankind either never learns about anything that took place during the mission, or that all information gained from the mission is kept Ultra Top Secret because [PLOT REASON #2]. Think the Water Chip quest from the original Fallout; the protagonist succeeds, but is banished from Vault 13 afterwards.

But hey, if we could stomach the narrative and story abuse of Star Control 3, we won't bat an eye over this! [/sarcasm]

Not being able to do a sequel is a cop out. There is nothing preventing them from creating a joint multi-race task force with the sole aim of exploring the galaxy like the old Millenieu did, and perhaps to see if there are any remnants of the Millenieu races that the Ur-Quan did not destroy. They arrive in a new part of the galaxy and it is adventure time a la Star Control 2, only this time, while you do have an upgradable mothership that you can customise using a set amount of RP before starting the game, your home "base" is a string of trader hubs in the area where you can request ships be built according to your specs (you start with the old races, and may get plans for new ones), recruit extra crew, buy weapons/fuel, upgrade your mothership using modules you have specs for, etc. Throw in a threat that slowly reveals itself (maybe a redo of SC3's bad guys in the new setting as the chessmasters using a few "Evil" races as pawns to take over this part of the galaxy?) that you stumble on to and have to resolve (unite some of the races, perhaps?).

Ignore SC3 altogether and restart the lore from the end of SC2 so that warp travel still works.

There. Old races AND new races all in one exploration/adventure/RPG package.

 

[Frogboy]

The whole point of not using the old races was to leave the door open so that The guys who wrote the original lore could do what you are asking for.

And they are: Ghosts of the Precursors.

So now people can have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Cael]

The whole point of not using the old races was to leave the door open so that The guys who wrote the original lore could do what you are asking for.

And they are: Ghosts of the Precursors.

So now people can have their cake and eat it too.

We shall see. The last few posts is throwing grave doubts on the name-only prequel.

 

[Frogboy]

Well to be fair, people have been throwing grave doubts since 2013 in this very thread.

Obviously, if the specific characters from sc 1,2,3 are the draw and not the sub-genre game, then the reboot is not going to be your cup of tea.

The game won’t succeed or fail based on being a Star Control game. Only if the final game is good will it succeed.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, hi Brad.

Crooked Bee DarkUnderlord Devtag for Frogboy, Stardock.

 

[Cael]

Oh, hi Brad.

Crooked Bee DarkUnderlord Devtag for Frogboy, Stardock.

That... explains a LOT...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

It's also greatly appreciated, we get feedback.

Hearing that we're seeing but one of several possible 'arenas' assures me somewhat, but I still think a second look at how the ships appear is needed.

 

[Frogboy]

In terms of how they enter the arena or how they look?

 

[Frogboy]

Also: clearly no one was clicking on my sig to my home page.

 

[Cael]

Also: clearly no one was clicking on my sig to my home page.

Clearly, I will never buy your product thanks to your actions here. Congrats.

 

[Frogboy]

Er. What actions? You’ve been here 2 weeks. What have I done to raise your ire?

 

[Infinitron]

Er. What actions? You’ve been here 2 weeks.

This is the RPG Codex, everybody is a banned troll's alt account

Unkillable Cat is cool though, answer his questions! Also MRY

 

[luj1]

Does Melee really look so bad though? I thought they more or less recreated the arcadey feel, the unpredictability and jumpy music.

 

[Cael]

Er. What actions? You’ve been here 2 weeks. What have I done to raise your ire?

Being a smug, supercillious twat. If you are going to promote a game you developed/are developing, I suggest a course in customer service and care. Another in professional selling would also help.

I was willing to let things go, until your prior post.

 

[Zombra]

I just realized something I'm willing to let go.

 

[Frogboy]

Er. What actions? You’ve been here 2 weeks. What have I done to raise your ire?

Being a smug, supercillious twat. If you are going to promote a game you developed/are developing, I suggest a course in customer service and care. Another in professional selling would also help.

I was willing to let things go, until your prior post.

I can see why you were banned.

Unlike you, I’ve been on here 8 years. I’m not “promoting” anything. I didn’t make this thread. I’m listening to the feedback and ideas people have to incorporate into the game and talking to other gamers on those thoughts.

If the community doesn’t want the game’s designer to be here, they’ll let me know and I’ll go.

 

[Cael]

I can see why you were banned.

Unlike you, I’ve been on here 8 years. I’m not “promoting” anything. I didn’t make this thread. I’m listening to the feedback and ideas people have to incorporate into the game and talking to other gamers on those thoughts.

If the community doesn’t want the game’s designer to be here, they’ll let me know and I’ll go.

Banned? Oh, I see. You are clutching at straws now to cover your faux pas by trying to come up with fictional stuff to bolster your standing. That's pretty SAD!

 

[Frogboy]

You’re rather unpleasant. You probably won’t be surprised to hear I’ve set it to ignore you.

Edit: wow. That works very well here. Kudos to the forum devs.

 

[Cael]

You’re rather unpleasant. You probably won’t be surprised to hear I’ve set it to ignore you.

Runs away when called on his LIES. Yep. He really would listen to criticism of his precious, precious game and change accordingly

 

[Zombra]

lol. There's a difference between reading a critic and making time to listen to a screaming bum on a street corner. Prestige is knowing what's worth time and attention and what isn't.

Respect is earned, not granted. You're not doing much to establish a quality brand the second time around. And you shouldn't talk about running away from a conversation

 

[MRY]

I don't really understand the hostility people feel toward this game.

The lander sequences look extremely goofy, but -- as I've mentioned before -- no game has really managed to crack this nut. Perhaps Starflight had the best, but there have been many, many failed attempts to modernize this pillar of the game (Star Control III, Mass Effect 1 and 2, The Long Journey Home, etc.). It's tempting to think that you could just take SC2 and go deeper, but for a variety of reasons I don't think you can -- part of the aesthetic of SC2 is relatively shallow, quick, arcade-y minigames, and if you have some Blaster Master level exploration or something, it's going to get in the way. I don't know if Brad's approach will work, but it's as good a try as any.

The ship customization initially worried me a lot, but it struck me that SC2 also featured ship customization (the flagship), so it's hardly alien to the franchise. The question is whether it is possible to maintain the iconic quality of the ships while adding customization -- I'm a bit skeptical here, as my experience with bloating the ship roster (Timewarp) was largely negative. SC2 had about the right number and there was ample variety already. Still, this doesn't seem an obvious flaw.

As I noted earlier in the thread, the aliens they featured have the the right look-and-feel (in contrast to Star Control 3, which lost the color, lost the cartoonishness, and gave up the neat fonts).

[EDIT: Compare the super melee ships, for instance, to see how Star Control 3 just didn't get it.

Spoiler

[END EDIT]

It is hard to set another exploration-based campaign in the same setting -- Starflight 2 pulled it off, but only by opening up a new area and by radically shifting the status quo. I'm not sure how Fred and Paul are going to approach it in their game, but honestly, just wiping the Star Control status quo away and following the first game in feel seems like a pretty decent approach. I've often liked that kind of soft sequel approach -- the non-direct sequel Gold Box games, for example, or the Final Fantasy series -- more than true sequels.

My main concern is simply that there is a pretty decent test run here for my own tastes, which is that Stardock made a clone of one of my favorite series (Master of Orion) and while I loved Master of Orion, I disliked Galactic Civilizations. And the reason for that dislike was that it seemed to have lost those parts of MOO that I consider the integral parts of Star Control (the zippy gameplay, the well-defined aliens, the aesthetic). Galactic Civilizations is a beloved franchise -- and certainly better than MOO3 -- so I don't consider myself the typical player. But, as I said, it's really the only thing that gives me any concern here.

 

[Cael]

I don't really understand the hostility people feel toward this game.

My main concern is simply that there is a pretty decent test run here for my own tastes, which is that Stardock made a clone of one of my favorite series (Master of Orion) and while I loved Master of Orion, I disliked Galactic Civilizations. And the reason for that dislike was that it seemed to have lost those parts of MOO that I consider the integral parts of Star Control (the zippy gameplay, the well-defined aliens, the aesthetic). Galactic Civilizations is a beloved franchise -- and certainly better than MOO3 -- so I don't consider myself the typical player. But, as I said, it's really the only thing that gives me any concern here.

The hostility on my part is mainly due to the fact that it is called Star Control but does not have any of the lore associated with Star Control. That is like saying Star Trek without the Federation or Klingon or Romulan or any of the millions of bits of lore associated with the franchise. Or Star Wars without the Jedi, Republic, Empire, Rebellion, lightsabers, Hutts and all the other bits of lore associated with that franchise. It makes the whole thing look like a cynical attempt to cash in on the name and good will of the IP and little more. As I mentioned before, I would have far more respect for it had they called it by any other name, and then said that it will be using a Star Control style game system and can be considered a spiritual successor to Star Control (e.g., what they did with Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate).

The hamfisted, sneery, snarky replies by the developer did not help, especially when the potential customer has ALREADY SAID that he will wait and see how things turned out, but the developer had to fire one last smug parting shot.

 

[Zombra]

There have been many, many failed attempts to modernize this pillar of the game [Star Control 2's lander sequences] (Star Control III)

Honestly, I thought SC3's solution was great: remove the lander sequences. I guess I liked them well enough in SC2, but they got old. Like Hyperspace flying, the lander was fat that I felt was rightfully trimmed.

The ship customization initially worried me a lot

Yeah, I'm still not sanguine. The thing about SC1 and 2 is that every power on every ship is unique! Some of them started to get a little redundant in SC2, but the distinction of every ship type was wonderful. Now we can mix and match powers, hull types, engines, etc.? Sort of renders all sense of identity meaningless, doesn't it? A ship's limitations give a race charm every bit as much as humorous dialogue screens, maybe moreso. Now if we don't like the limitations, we can just throw it away and make something else. But without those charming, distinctive limitations, you just can't have Star Control. One zebra's opinion.

 

[Frogboy]

I loved Master of Orion but I made Galactic Civilizations before there was a Master of Orion. The OS/2 version I wrote from my dorm room 24 years ago.

The ship designer is purely for modding for combat and such. You don’t design ships in the main game. You can customize your flag ship but that’s the extent.

Your points on the lander are well put and one of the reasons I Lurk here is this kind of insightful feedback.