Star Control: Origins - Star Control reboot from Stardock

[Cael]

Looks like Super Melee beta is live:



http://steamcommunity.com/games/starcontrolorigins/announcements/detail/2919884421337166986

And some other recent forum posts:

Beta schedule: https://forums.starcontrol.com/485793
Post about some Origins lore: https://forums.starcontrol.com/485923
Star Control 2 retrospective: https://forums.starcontrol.com/485810/Star-Control-II-25th-anniversary---On-the-shoulders-of-giants

That is a whole lot of bullcrap. That is no Star Control. In Star Control, it was explicitly stated that Earth did NOT have starfaring capacity until the Chenjesu came upon us. What we did have was a massive stockpile of nukes, large population and massive industry that was useful to the Alliance and so we were uplifted and sent into the fight.

Sounds like another Fallout 3 in the making in terms of taking a dump on the original IP.

 

[MRY]

They made a point of staying away from the events and aliens of Star Control II. That alone shows some restraint and respect. Having done that, they need to do something to make it a space game all the same.

 

[Cael]

They made a point of staying away from the events and aliens of Star Control II. That alone shows some restraint and respect. Having done that, they need to do something to make it a space game all the same.

The problem is that SC2 had a timeline that excluded any possibility of what they are doing. That means that they are basically taking a royal dump on established SC lore. That is an issue as that would make it a generic space game that is SC in name only, which is really going to set people off.

Making a prequel is fraught with dangers and this is one of them. They should have gone for a sequel, perhaps a few decades of centuries down the line which would have given them more freedom to create their own lore to add to existing lore.

 

[Frogboy]

Star Control:Origins exists in a different universe tha. SC2 specifically to avoid stepping on SC2 lore. The Humans don’t start with interstellar drive.

Also, Stardock considers SC3 existing in a different universe from SC2 as well. Only SC1/2 is canon to the Ur-Quan lore (and presumably Ghosts).

 

[Cael]

Star Control:Origins exists in a different universe tha. SC2 specifically to avoid stepping on SC2 lore. The Humans don’t start with interstellar drive.

Also, Stardock considers SC3 existing in a different universe from SC2 as well. Only SC1/2 is canon to the Ur-Quan lore (and presumably Ghosts).

Then it is a space game that is SC in name only. Oh well, look forward to a game called Star Trek that has Death Stars in it.

 

[MRY]

Star Control:Origins exists in a different universe tha. SC2 specifically to avoid stepping on SC2 lore. The Humans don’t start with interstellar drive.

Also, Stardock considers SC3 existing in a different universe from SC2 as well. Only SC1/2 is canon to the Ur-Quan lore (and presumably Ghosts).

Then it is a space game that is SC in name only. Oh well, look forward to a game called Star Trek that has Death Stars in it.

Got you covered, bro.

 

[Frogboy]

Fair enough. For me, Star Control means a space adventure game that merges exploration with an overall story arc.

If Stardock had called it Stellar Frontier and people asked what it was like, the answer would be “it’s a like like Star Control”.

But if the specific lore of Star Control II (but presumably not I or III) is what makes it real to you that’s fine too.

 

[Cael]

Fair enough. For me, Star Control means a space adventure game that merges exploration with an overall story arc.

If Stardock had called it Stellar Frontier and people asked what it was like, the answer would be “it’s a like like Star Control”.

But if the specific lore of Star Control II (but presumably not I or III) is what makes it real to you that’s fine too.

Calling it Stellar Frontier would be better.

Why bother calling something part of a particular setting when you use ZERO parts of that setting in your work? Other than cynical marketing, that is.

 

[Frogboy]

Fair enough. For me, Star Control means a space adventure game that merges exploration with an overall story arc.

If Stardock had called it Stellar Frontier and people asked what it was like, the answer would be “it’s a like like Star Control”.

But if the specific lore of Star Control II (but presumably not I or III) is what makes it real to you that’s fine too.

Calling it Stellar Frontier would be better.

Why bother calling something part of a particular setting when you use ZERO parts of that setting in your work? Other than cynical marketing, that is.

Because Star Control conveys a specific type of game for most people. It certainly does for me and I love the Orz and Spathi. But if my choice is between maximizing the fun of the game versus navigating 25 year old lore I’ll pick the former.

If you don’t agree, if to you it’s about the characters and lore then I totally get where you’re coming from. But for me, I’d be annoyed if, for instance, the new Star Control game was a first person shooter but had the characters and setting from SC2.

 

[MRY]

Of course, Star Control I and II were totally different kinds of games, linked only by Super Melee and lore.

Anyway, I'm glad the game's getting done. Should be fun!

 

[Zarniwoop]

Beta is on GOG.

It's a Spore clone. You will spend a billion hours customising that turret just right. Wouldn't be surprised if it has all that social network shit so you can post your shit fictional ships on your Facebewk twittergram.

With lolwhackyomgsogoofy turned up to 11.

Human commander is a chick with dyed hair as expected.

Jimmy status = unrustled.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Star Control:Origins exists in a different universe tha. SC2 specifically to avoid stepping on SC2 lore. The Humans don’t start with interstellar drive.

Also, Stardock considers SC3 existing in a different universe from SC2 as well. Only SC1/2 is canon to the Ur-Quan lore (and presumably Ghosts).

Then it is a space game that is SC in name only. Oh well, look forward to a game called Star Trek that has Death Stars in it.

Got you covered, bro.

Uhh... game already got you bros covered:

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Fred Ford and Paul the Third Reiche = dead to me.

Why?
They're working on Ghosts of the Precursors, not on this.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Fred Ford and Paul the Third Reiche = dead to me.

Why?
They're working on Ghosts of the Precursors, not on this.

This is why you don't drink and post kids.

Deleted.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I hope they eventually give option for true fleet battles (multiple ships simultaneously on battlefield) like Timewarp did.
Any idea how big ships can be made with current editor of this?

 

[Beastro]

I hope they eventually give option for true fleet battles (multiple ships simultaneously on battlefield) like Timewarp did.
Any idea how big ships can be made with current editor of this?

They'd haveto change Super Melee up a bit for that. Just from watching it I can see it becoming few confused with even half a dozen ships total flying about.

There's also the problem of going to all your hard work building up the fleet you want for the right situation, then having your AI buddies lose them being typical badly programmed AI.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I hope they eventually give option for true fleet battles (multiple ships simultaneously on battlefield) like Timewarp did.
Any idea how big ships can be made with current editor of this?

They'd haveto change Super Melee up a bit for that. Just from watching it I can see it becoming few confused with even half a dozen ships total flying about.

There's also the problem of going to all your hard work building up the fleet you want for the right situation, then having your AI buddies lose them being typical badly programmed AI.

That's pretty much how it was in Timewarp too.

Still it was kind fun to occasionally fight fleet against fleet or fleet against planet sized super-heavy ship.
One that looked like Executioner-class Star Destroyer was exceptionally difficult to destroy.

edit.
Old youtube video about Time Warp

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Oh man, SC Timewarp brings me back, haven't played that one in AGES.

4-player Timewarp was a blast, the handful of times me and my friends could get it to work. There are lots of new ships in there for those that only want the Super-Melee combat, including over a dozen new ships. Most of them are pretty meh, but a few were loads of fun to play.

One ship was fast but couldn't turn on a barn and had 4 powerful blasters on the front, but the CREW stat was just an extension of the BATT, meaning if you held down the fire button long enough you'd drain the crew as well as the battery. It did regenerate both BATT and CREW, though.

Another was the Leviathan. This was a Sa-Matra 'Lite' ship, with maxed-out CREW and BATT. CREW and BATT both regenerated slowly on their own, but the special weapon was stomach acid that would give both CREW and BATT back to the Leviathan, on a scale that even a grazing hit would go a long ways towards bringing it to tip-top shape. An absolute beast of a ship to kill.

 

[Average Manatee]

I thought in SC lore Earth had spacefaring, just not interstellar spacefaring?

Either way you could have stuff happening during the first war. SC1 isn't really a lore-y game, all that happens are a few unconnected campaigns then SC2 concludes it by saying the Alliance lost.

Star Control:Origins exists in a different universe tha. SC2 specifically to avoid stepping on SC2 lore. The Humans don’t start with interstellar drive.

Also, Stardock considers SC3 existing in a different universe from SC2 as well. Only SC1/2 is canon to the Ur-Quan lore (and presumably Ghosts).

Don't name your game SC:Origins if the Origin isn't canon with the original.

Hopefully they at least keep close to canon.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

edit.
I'm really not a fan of this enclosed arena thing.
Hope there will be option for original styled loops-into-itself battlescapes.

Same with asteroid damage. Would like to see an option to turn it off.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Don't name your game SC:Origins if the Origin isn't canon with the original.

Hopefully they at least keep close to canon.

By the looks of it Stardock dug themselves into a hole.

They buy the Star Control license for a quarter mil, so they have to make that back by making a game based on it. Not wanting to repeat Legend Entertainment's mistake with Star Control 3, they won't use the characters and races made by Toys for Bob without them, so obviously they try to bring them in. But *reasons* prevent that so they have to strike out on their own. Making a sequel seems out of the question, but a prequel... that could work.

So Stardock is making a Star Control game based on the notion that Mankind met space-faring races, in our part of the galaxy, before the Chenjesu arrived at Earth in 2112 and recruited them for the war against the Ur-Quan.

Then Toys for Bob become available for developing a Star Control game and Stardock is faced with a dilemma: Scrap their existing game and hand it over to TfB, or let them have a new title that they can work with from scratch. They chose the latter option, which is better for us Star Control fans, but leaves Stardock and the SC: Origins game in a bit of a pickle. Their only option is to go forward and hope for the best.

Making Origins lore work with Star Control lore is difficult, but not impossible. Off the top of my head, a rimward-bound deep space exploration mission for [PLOT REASON] is doable, as long as the end result is that Mankind either never learns about anything that took place during the mission, or that all information gained from the mission is kept Ultra Top Secret because [PLOT REASON #2]. Think the Water Chip quest from the original Fallout; the protagonist succeeds, but is banished from Vault 13 afterwards.

But hey, if we could stomach the narrative and story abuse of Star Control 3, we won't bat an eye over this! [/sarcasm]

EDIT: Missing word.

 

[Zombra]

I'm delighted Stardock is breaking canon and making their own story. Better that than waste effort trying to recreate the voice of writers who came before.

StarCon 3's only crime was that it didn't expand or improve on the worldbuilding in StarCon 2. Its writing was perfectly good on its own and it had plenty of cool ideas whenever the original races weren't around. It was a bad "StarCon 2 part 2" but quite a good "StarCon 2-like".

Of course Stardock's game may still be bad, but adherence to canon isn't what's going to make or break it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I had a go at the Star Control: Origins Beta, tried out the melee.

They're making a couple of fundamental mistakes.

Star Control's melee is based upon one of the oldest computer games ever made, Spacewar! from 1962. Toys for Bob decided to make a 'modern' take on that game back in 1990 with the very first Star Control, and some of their decisions are quite clever and sensible: They feature very colorful ships, with very recognizable shapes, on a black background that would zoom in and out as needed, depending on player proximity. In addition they made the 'thruster trail' a simple red dotted line, making it both noticeable and distinct from the ship itself. This gives both players near-instant battefield awareness, both of themselves and their opponent. This is a key point to the success of Star Control.

Stardock is not getting this.

# The background of their melee arena is blue-ish, not black.
# The ships are too similar in both appearance and color.
# The thruster trail is big and white (looking like an actual thruster burn) making it even harder to distinguish ships from one another.

This puts everyone at a disadvantage, too much time is spent in confusion as players are needlessly made to re-enact Abbott & Costello's famous "Who's on first?"-sketch.

A few further points which are not as bad as the above, but still are off from 'standard' Star Control gameplay:

# The 'battlefield' is no longer a wrap-around thing with a gravity well (planet) at the middle. Now it's a confined arena with an asteroid belt serving as the boundary all around.
# Said asteroids do damage to whatever ship collides with them, which is a departure from established Star Control gameplay.

This is both good and bad. Now the asteroids have a greater impact upon each battle. You can now 'hide' in the asteroid field to dodge incoming projectiles/fighters, but at great personal risk. On the downside it severely limits mobility, which is what ships designed for kiting sorely need.

I'll need more time with the ships themselves to give an accurate rating on them, but giving a 'shooting from the hip'-opinion I feel they're making the same mistakes as Legend Entertainment made with their line-up of ships. Also, the zoom feature feels off.

 

[Cael]

edit.
I'm really not a fan of this enclosed arena thing.
Hope there will be option for original styled loops-into-itself battlescapes.

Same with asteroid damage. Would like to see an option to turn it off.

I love the old system, but the autozoom was a PITA. You are fighting at point blank and suddenly a planet appears out of nowhere and removes half your crew before you can react. They need to do something about that.

 

[Frogboy]

Wrapped Battles will be there too. Just depends on the particular battle map.