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Starfield - Epic Shit Takes from Bethestards

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,995
That's because Morrowind already had content. It didn't need mods.

I'll never forget the vampire quest line that you actually had to find out for yourself.
The argument isn't about the content. The point is that, bugs aside, Morrowind is playable (despite of its many faults) out of the box. That's why it doesn't need mods, even though it may be highly recommended nowadays. So, yeah, "everyone played these games modded, always" is not true.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,265
You get rid of skills that range from 0-255(or even 100) and reduce them to "perks" which only have 0-4, and you really lower the resolution of how much divergence you can have in the elements that normally rely on skill checks.
Eh, that's not the real problem, and there's something to be said for not hassling the player every 3 seconds because his ability to fly fish specifically in a river specifically at dawn went up by 2%. Fo4 had a much better system than Fo3 and Oblivion, which really did have 4 perks per skill and the levels between were irrelevant.

The real problem is when the perks themselves are boring. You could have a perk that lets you grab ledges to climb onto rooftops. Hell, you could have a few so you've got varying levels of difficult climbs you can manage and that can open up extra solutions or partial solutions to all sorts of quests. Instead of needing a 65 climbing skill to make a check, you need the 2nd tier climbing perk and the 1st tier mechanic perk to open up a vent to break into a building, or a cutting torch to substitute for the mechanic perk and a grappling hook to reduce the climbing skill requirement- but they're both heavy.

But what you generally get are perks that increase the drop rate of ammo by 10% in a game where you'll never run out anyways and 'wacky' stuff like a 10% damage buff vs women or now your lasers can set people on fire *but the fire does 1 damage per minute. It's honestly insane how creatively bankrupt the people designing these perk trees are. There's always like half a dozen good ones amongst dozens of terrible ones, in pretty much any game that has such a system. It's like nobody developing this shit has ever played another fucking game in thier life. Steal good shit from the other games! I could dredge up like 100 cool perks for a game easily by just copying shit from various games.
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
12,585
Location
Behind you.
Eh, that's not the real problem, and there's something to be said for not hassling the player every 3 seconds because his ability to fly fish specifically in a river specifically at dawn went up by 2%. Fo4 had a much better system than Fo3 and Oblivion, which really did have 4 perks per skill and the levels between were irrelevant.
It most certainly isn't because the second you reduce things to the point they did in Fallout 4, you reduce the amount of things you can do with the game. The easiest example of this is locks. You went from the capability of having 100 different types of lock down to Beginner, Advanced, Expert and Master. This spreads throughout the design with everything that used to be a skill that was turned in to a perk. Sure, you could also add an attribute factor, but you also run in to the problem where attributes vie for the same pool of points that the perks take, meaning you have to decide between raising the attribute or getting another perk as opposed to the original system where attributes start off a certain significantly higher level, but are more difficult to raise. In the original system, it's much easier to gauge what to check for when you're looking to make something the level of difficulty you want. In Fallout 4's system, it's pretty much chaos when it comes to attribute checks which is why you don't see them much in the game. It degenerates to any character can do most anything because you can't really pin down what level character and what build should be required to do something.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,271
Has anyone really gotten into the outposts/player housing/shipbuilding? It feels like Beth expected people to build first and do the shitty quests as an afterthought. There are so many crafting systems and research projects that you could easily never notice because you were just doing terminal fetch quests for $3000

I also suspect that House Varuun was only one of multiple religions in the lore but some reddit soyboy had them cut spiritual references because they would offend the Chinese Communist Party. How could Akila's space Confederates not have a religious sect? Or Neon worshipping Slaanesh?
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,271
I also suspect that House Varuun was only one of multiple religions in the lore but some reddit soyboy had them cut
That's because...
The upcoming DLC is all about that faction.
I know about Shattered Space, I think Varuun was intended for the core game and the DLC was originally about something completely different, probably whatever happened after the Unity.

Maybe the ending was gonna be that you obtain Truesight/Detective Vision and can now see that there were ayys lmao around you all along (giving the scanner a reason to exist), and then the DLC would be like Star Trek: First Contact. There is no possible way in hell that Bethesda wanted to ship a space game with no xeno pussy
 
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0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
530
Location
Not here
If Failout 76 is any indication, give Starshit 5+ years of content and it might turn out passable.
No Man's Sky apparently did this.
Fallout 76 apparently did this.
Starfield will apparently do this.

They're still shit games - watching a "X is better than you think" or a "X is actually good now" YT video doesn't change that.

It just means that people are willingly lowering their standards because they're drowning in slop.

It doesn't change reality.
 

Drakortha

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,733
Location
Terra Australis
If Failout 76 is any indication, give Starshit 5+ years of content and it might turn out passable.
No Man's Sky apparently did this.
Fallout 76 apparently did this.
Starfield will apparently do this.

They're still shit games - watching a "X is better than you think" or a "X is actually good now" YT video doesn't change that.

It just means that people are willingly lowering their standards because they're drowning in slop.

It doesn't change reality.
And almost 15 years after Skyrim there's still no sign of a new mainline Elder Scrolls.

Warcraft 3, everyone thought it had a bright future, then suddenly the MMO hit, it was all over, never got a sequel again...

Now we're experiencing the same thing with Skyrim, ESO hit, never got a sequel, one is announced but who knows if that will even come out, looks like Bethesda is caught up in the Fallout hype again so probably not. If you are an Elder Scrolls fan your only choice is to mod the old games and play them again for the one hundredth time, or lower your standards and play MMO slop.

Developers like these don't want to make new games, they only want to continue to profit off the old ones. All the Skyrim remakes were clear red flags, Bethesda doesn't want to go past ESO.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,450
Location
The Satellite Of Love
In Todd's big interview recently, he responded to questions about new Fallout and TES games by saying "I don't think it's bad for people to miss things", which might be the wisest thing he's said in the last decade. I think he's right to hold off on TESVI, even if the reason for the delay is something as embarrassing as them being incapable of coming up with anything decent.

Skyrim is, astonishingly, still fairly popular and relevant in pop culture 13 years after its release; there's no real reason for them to introduce another game in the series while that's the case.

Also even if it'd be a guaranteed sales success, a hastily-made TESVI could damage the quality and integrity of the franchise, which I'd argue is pretty much what Fo4 and 76 did to Fallout even though the franchise is probably worth more now than it's ever been, money-wise.
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
12,585
Location
Behind you.
Has anyone really gotten into the outposts/player housing/shipbuilding? It feels like Beth expected people to build first and do the shitty quests as an afterthought.
This would be the only interest I have in the game. It would probably be the only reason I'd get it. Then I looked more and more in to the systems and it lost me. I can understand you need bigger engines to power bigger things, and stuff like that. What I don't understand is why components are locked to skills. Skills are somewhat understandable, I guess, but explain the level requirement to me without totally breaking the immersion that Bethesda is supposed to be so good at. I can completely get behind having factions in the game and the requirement of faction reputation being part of what faction equipment they'd be willing to sell you. That's a model that makes a bit of sense. But please explain who would know what level I am and deny me access to something because of that?

Also, the settlement building in Fallout 4 was complete shit. You need to really mod the game in order to make it remotely friendly. I have to wonder if they even bothered to do much testing on it when even the snapping didn't work worth a shit in the vanilla game.
 

Kruyurk

Learned
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
374
If Failout 76 is any indication, give Starshit 5+ years of content and it might turn out passable.
No Man's Sky apparently did this.
Fallout 76 apparently did this.
Starfield will apparently do this.

They're still shit games - watching a "X is better than you think" or a "X is actually good now" YT video doesn't change that.

It just means that people are willingly lowering their standards because they're drowning in slop.

It doesn't change reality.
It is the power of marketing. Even if normies know that these games are shit, they collectively delude themselves in thinking otherwise to align with the conception they had of these games prior to release. A weird case of "too big too fail". Even is TES VI is shit it will be highly profitable just because of the status of Skyrim with normies. They will be able, in time, to convince themselves that it is exactly what they wanted, whether the initial reception is good or bad.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,265
The easiest example of this is locks.
Locks are exactly the kind of thing I mean. In the older games it was just an RNG check anyways, so the only difference between a 65 lock and a 60 lock was you maybe using a different number of lockpicks or savescumming. As soon Oblivion came around, the exact skill level became irrelevant because the only impact it had was at the thresholds that let you attempt stronger locks. All the numbers in between were pure window dressing.

To be clear, I'm fine with extra granularity in stats, but having the player unlock a new skill level that does nothing literally hundreds of times during the game is inane. It smacks of skinnerbox design.

I'm not going to comment on the impact it has on challenge design because that's just a non-sequitor.
 

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