Starfield Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[rusty_shackleford]

There's plenty of reasons for a settlement of only children to exist. Most obvious: children running and hiding during a raid, the adults get murdered or captured.

Little Lamplight has existed as a settlement of only children since the Great War (i.e. for 200 years).

how am I supposed to know? do you think I played fallout 3?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

children running and hiding during a raid, the adults get murdered or captured.

Who will probably be prime targets for slavers...

*A really lightly defended and fortified settlement consisting of only children and teenagers.
Slavers: "It's free real estate!"

thanks for reminding me that absolutely silly things like FNV's boomers get a free pass for being ridiculous

 

[Robotigan]

I think that what people usually mean with "theme park" is more from a geographical point of view, when you have obviously makeshift worlds where "attractions" are crammed together like in a theme park.

I guess that does make it a bit more theme park-y, but at least for me, that's a good thing. Realistic amounts of tedium don't serve games well; they're games, let them abstract over boring things.

I, personally, if there is not a good reason to have everything crammed together, prefer sparse open worlds with meaningful ways to traverse them. However usually people are scared of sparse open worlds and cry hysterically if they don't find their attractions right in front of them.

When I get the urge to traverse a realistically proportioned landscapes with immersive gameplay, I go for a hike. I've even done a few runs with hardcore survival mechanics. I think they call it backpacking. Check out these graphics:

 

[perfectslumbers]

The way i see it is in a sandbox open world you make your own fun through self direction, experimentation, and emergent gameplay (eg botw.) In a themepark open world the fun is content that was placed by the devs such as hand crafted quests and dungeons (eg TW3.) All open world games contain both but the post-Daggerfall games lean to themepark quite heavily in my opinion

 

[Harthwain]

When I get the urge to traverse a realistically proportioned landscapes with immersive gameplay, I go for a hike. I've even done a few runs with hardcore survival mechanics. I think they call it backpacking.

Games like Death Stranding or Outward are proof you can have traversal games that are fun to play, with proper mechanics.

 

[anvi]

I never understood the Theme Park thing. I always assumed it meant that the world was accommodating, wherever you go is a dungeon like a roller coaster, it's fun for 20 minutes, nobody gets hurt, then you go somewhere else that is fun.

Which seemed quite different to EQ which would brutally kill you over and over if you went somewhere you weren't ready for.

 

[Robotigan]

Games like Death Stranding or Outward are proof you can have traversal games that are fun to play, with proper mechanics.

Outward

fun

proper mechanics

Agree to disagree.

 

[thesecret1]

This is just critiquing narrative/setting concepts, I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not the game structure is a themepark. Otherwise you're saying Minecraft is a themepark for these same reasons which makes the term a bit fraught/useless.

Minecraft doesn't have any attractions though. Really, I don't think it makes sense to apply this term to games that aren't RPGs. And it's not true that it only critiques narrative and setting concepts, rather it criticizes the game's open world execution – the "open world" is, in reality, a mostly empty, bland area serving only to let you traverse between various locations. These locations then tend to have zero bearing on any other location, on the world around them, or even the NPCs across the world – they're perfectly isolated experiences that, if one were to remove a couple or add a couple different ones, nobody would notice, as they're just that modular. This is not much of an issue when it comes to random cave #163 whose only purpose is to be looted by the player, but when it comes to places featuring NPCs with various quests and backgrounds and what not, it becomes rather stark.

 

[Robotigan]

Minecraft doesn't have any attractions though. Really, I don't think it makes sense to apply this term to games that aren't RPGs. And it's not true that it only critiques narrative and setting concepts, rather it criticizes the game's open world execution – the "open world" is, in reality, a mostly empty, bland area serving only to let you traverse between various locations. These locations then tend to have zero bearing on any other location, on the world around them, or even the NPCs across the world – they're perfectly isolated experiences that, if one were to remove a couple or add a couple different ones, nobody would notice, as they're just that modular. This is not much of an issue when it comes to random cave #163 whose only purpose is to be looted by the player, but when it comes to places featuring NPCs with various quests and backgrounds and what not, it becomes rather stark.

Minecraft has attractions, there are dungeons and villages that operate exactly how you describe save for being procedurally generated. I can see what you're getting at, but I guess my thinking approaches from a different angle. They might not have much relation to one another in a literal sense, but in terms of gameplay they feel very interconnected. Your encounter at any location and the resources/experience you encounter there informs how you approach every other location. And that's the more abstract notion of game structure that I'm talking about. Now if you want to distinguish between Skyrim and very open games like Minecraft or Rust, then fair, Skyrim is more of a theme park than either of those.

 

[Harthwain]

Agree to disagree.

I maintain my position that moving from point A to point B can be turned into something interesting. It is not easy, but possible.

 

[Robotigan]

I maintain my position that moving from point A to point B can be turned into something interesting. It is not easy, but possible.

Oh, it's a very cool concept that I hope more devs experiment with. But the initial idea is like 10% of game design. A lot of devs/players rub me the wrong way because they think merely having the idea warrants praise. Death Stranding at least invested a lot into pulling it off so that deserves credit.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

There's plenty of reasons for a settlement of only children to exist. Most obvious: children running and hiding during a raid, the adults get murdered or captured.

Little Lamplight has existed as a settlement of only children since the Great War (i.e. for 200 years).

The writing of Fallout 3 was a mishmash of content making sense for a game set two years or so after the nuclear apocalypse, content making sense if set 20 years or so after the apocalypse, content making sense half a century or so after the apocalypse, and content actually making sense for the ostensible date of two centuries after the apocalypse. Thus the game simultaneously presents edible packaged food lying around in supermarkets (2 years), an abandoned attempt to de-radiate the region's water supply (20 years), or the backstories for Rivet City and Megaton (50-60 years or so).

Little Lamplight would make sense for a date of two years after the apocalypse, or perhaps slightly longer, with a number of children managing to survive in a cave after the adults supervising them on a field trip had been killed, while anyone turning 18 is sent away to another location, which had its own quest attached.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I think that what people usually mean with "theme park" is more from a geographical point of view, when you have obviously makeshift worlds where "attractions" are crammed together like in a theme park.

I guess that does make it a bit more theme park-y, but at least for me, that's a good thing. Realistic amounts of tedium don't serve games well; they're games, let them abstract over boring things.

I, personally, if there is not a good reason to have everything crammed together, prefer sparse open worlds with meaningful ways to traverse them. However usually people are scared of sparse open worlds and cry hysterically if they don't find their attractions right in front of them.

When I get the urge to traverse a realistically proportioned landscapes with immersive gameplay, I go for a hike. I've even done a few runs with hardcore survival mechanics. I think they call it backpacking. Check out these graphics:

0/10, no light shafts.

 

[Giskard]

But you can have both, 'Theme park' mechanics in a sandbox game...can't you?

Spoiler

Nuka World in Fallout 4

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Theme park design means "Open world sandbox, but I don't like it". Like all video game descriptions, it doesn't fit 90% of the times its used.

WOW was a "theme park" because instead of the gritty and realistic mechanic of saying "hail" to every random NPC in the hopes they'd offer you something to do, WOW had big obvious exclamation points over quest giver NPC's heads.

There's a grain of truth to it, WOW does feel like a world made to guide the player through it. Everquest felt (more) like a world the player was dropped into and expected to figure out.

Of course, there's a pretty good reason disneyland and six flags mark their attractions and offer easy to follow pathways to see all the content they offer, because people come there to have fun and experience that content. Maybe there'd be some interest in an unmarked version of a "theme park" where you have to find the rides yourself but it'd likely be far less popular.

 

[Harthwain]

Maybe there'd be some interest in an unmarked version of a "theme park" where you have to find the rides yourself but it'd likely be far less popular.

You mean, like Morrowind or Gothic?

Some people think people are stupid and need to be guided all the way from the start to end, but if Dark Souls taught me anything it is that people are not as stupid (or challenge-shy) as some people believe them to be.

 

[thesecret1]

Theme park design means "Open world sandbox, but I don't like it".

No, it does not. The fact you think so only marks you as a dumbfuck.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Maybe there'd be some interest in an unmarked version of a "theme park" where you have to find the rides yourself but it'd likely be far less popular.

You mean, like Morrowind or Gothic?

Some people think people are stupid and need to be guided all the way from the start to end, but if Dark Souls taught me anything it is that people are not as stupid (or challenge-shy) as some people believe them to be.

No, like as in a real life theme park. Thus the comparison to six flags and disneyworld.

I already made the video game comparison between everquest and wow.

Maybe some people are so stupid they need to be guided all the way from start to end

 

[Crispy]

0/10, no light shafts.

I rate this rating 0/10, they're called God rays. Hello?

 

[Harthwain]

Maybe some people are stupid they need to be guided all the way from start to end

Or, maybe, your posts lack clarity (among other things).

You said it yourself:

Theme park design means "Open world sandbox, but I don't like it".

Morrowind is an open world sandbox.

Then you said:

Maybe there'd be some interest in an unmarked version of a "theme park" where you have to find the rides yourself but it'd likely be far less popular.

Morrowind is a perfect fit - it's an "open world sandox" and the "rides" there are unmarked. And it still didn't stop people from exploring the world to find the "attractions" hidden therein or making The Elder Scrolls series popular.

Some games don't expect every player to experience everything. Morrowind being the best example here. The world is so big and open it's not likely that a single character will find out every little bit of it. It's much more likely to happen on repeated playthroughs, with different characters. There is also a difference in presentation: the world in Morrowind is supposed to be realistic (as far as a fantasy world can be), meaning it doesn't feel like a theme park at all.

That said, I don't think your definition of a theme park is valid at all (your definition being: "Open world sandbox, but I don't like it"). Morrowind doesn't fit it, despite fulfilling all of the criterias described by you. It also doesn't suit the "all attractions gathered together in one place for player's convenience" statement due to how everything is placed: it's less a theme park and more an actual world.

 

[Zombra]

Turns out that the obsessive need to put neat, punchy labels on things, and expecting that to be infallibly sufficient to define their totality, is destructive to understanding and ultimately meaningless.

 

[Stavrophore]

If Starcuck won't have dynamic mesh collision masks then i will be pissed. This shit bugged me so much in skyrim where beards can clip through helmets and coifs if you use open visor/open head headgear. It would also prevent other ugly issues in the ingame world with clipping of objects.

 

[just]

yes, dynamic mesh collision masks is the only thing holding me back from preordering the game

 

[Stavrophore]

yes, dynamic mesh collision masks is the only thing holding me back from preordering the game

This was pretty ridiculous in ESO, where you could have a long beard, wear a helmet and then puff, no beard. Immersion ruined.

 

[NecroLord]