Starfield Thread - now with Shattered Space horror expansion

[likash]

Interesting design on this helmet

 

[RobotSquirrel]

Sorry if I'm mixing things up, it's not my specialty, but I thought that's what Precombines were - draw call optimisations. The way it works in the CK is that you lay the level down with all those tiles and plugs and whatnot, and then you "combine" multiples into a single collection for performance, though I don't know at exactly what level that acts. Note that this is separate from Previs.

The majority of Fallout 4's worldpsace makes heavy use of this Precombine approach, with the exception being settlements, where a lot more stuff needs to be interactible (but you still have precombined meshes for everything you can't change). You can actually see the performance gap yourself in a heavy area like downtown Boston if you go to your fallout4.ini and, under [General] set bUseCombinedObjects=0. At that point, each object gets treated individually (e.g. you can scrap 'em in settlements), but performance tanks.

No you're right that is what they are, my terminology is different to theirs because Unity,Godot its referred to as batching so that confusion was on my end, my apologies.
What is shocking is that they point out the performance gets even worse. Ok so its not that. Now its even more confusing to me, because they are clearly batching their meshes then based on that documentation.
Similarly I proved earlier in the thread they were also using GPU bound textures. So again where the hell is the poor performance coming from. Very strange indeed. Thanks for posting that info.

Further research is pointing to Lighting and Shadows being a big culprit in Fallout 4. But I noticed some mods also focus on Texture resolution and LODs to improve performance. It's really difficult to put a finger on what's going wrong probably because a lot is going wrong and its not going to be just one big thing.

 

[Swen]

 

[Heroic Liberator]

So how's the ridiculously easy looter shooter Bethesda game, bros?

It's comfy, but...

Spoiler

I'm in the minority that prefers this sort of 'low SF' setting over ME style space operas, so yeah.

One of the main draws for me was the aesthetic and "NASA-punk" setting. It's just too bad the gameplay sounds like utter shit.

It's typical BSG casualized shit, although I'd say that it's better than Bethesda's Fallout (& recent TES) titles which was somewhat of a surprise for my admittedly quite low expectations for it in the gameplay & mechanics department.

 

[Lyre Mors]

It's typical BSG casualized shit, although I'd say that it's better than Bethesda's Fallout (& recent TES) titles which was somewhat of a surprise for my admittedly quite low expectations for it in the gameplay & mechanics department

Good modding potential, but certainly not worth the time in its current state.

 

[darkpatriot]

2. enemies barely react to being shot (but I can shoot the jetpack!!!1!)

A lot of people are saying this but I don't get it at all, human enemies have pretty dramatic staggering animations. Animals are a bit less impressive but you can still trigger all kinds of wounded/staggered animations for them.

Nigga they barely even react to being shot at, much less manage to respond in a threatening manner.

I see lots of staggers and reactions to being shot. Also special animations like heavily wounded people dropping to their knees and trying to crawl away and when you get jetpack kill shots.

Maybe it is related to the damage you are causing? I tend to focus on weapons that have higher per shot damage as opposed to low damage but high rate of fire weapon.



One thing I have also really appreciated is that enemies try to fall back if you are overwhelming them, both individually if they take damage and as groups if you take out a bunch of them. It is quite satisfying to see the last 3 surviving members of a group of 7 try to flee and seek safety behind a rocky outcropping after you gun down the first 4 of them in quick succession.

Although, I think this behavior isn't as apparent in crowded indoor environments where you encounter most human enemies.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

How is the outpost mechanic? The only things that look interesting to me are upgrading ships and developing outposts and possibly the main story if it's decent

There's actually quite a developed system of production and supply chains, you need to build multiple outposts with inputs/outputs to feed different resource consumption and... do something? Most of it is locked behind skills I don't have so I don't see what the ultimate benefit of building colonies is, especially since money is easy to make by just selling loot.

 

[Robotigan]

It's just tiring, really. A friend of mine only buys games once the inevitable GOTY editions come out and I'm starting to think he's got the right idea. Probably good savings on the hardware side, too.

The only reason I play games on release anymore is so I can participate in the codex thread before it dies. Maybe I need to change my ways. Starfield feels like it needs a year or two of work for sure.

The game's fine. It has the same game loop as Tears of the Kingdom but with more fleshed out quests and fewer shrine puzzles. The bugs are minimal, and frankly whenever Codex--defender of the buggy, underappreciated gems--complains about bugs it's a giant warning sign that you're about to read some bullshit.

As I said before, I think Codex talks a big game about organic, open-ended games like Kenshi and Outward. But given how little discussion those games get outside of direct comparisons to Bethesda and how often someone butts in to say "akshually Morrowind is bad", you can infer that this place is mostly story-oriented gamers who prefer heavy-handed narratives albeit ones they can manipulate. The fundamental change that New Vegas or Enderal makes to the Bethesda formula is that they cut down on the extraneous adventuring and structure everything around the central campaign. Josh Sawyer has even explicitly said his design goals center around illusory choice and supporting specific character archetypes. No one who truly believes in a Morrowind-style game should want this.

And most of what Codex considers to be good narrative tends towards obvious and tediously sophomoric diatribes on politics and philosophy you might overhear from some jobless socialist at a Middle European cafe. Even fucking Gollum did this, but everyone in the Euro RPG scene is too embarrassed to claim their child. I'm not saying this stuff doesn't provide intriguing plot hooks when handled with some grace, but when a 'revered classic' like BG2 hits you with a prisoner's dilemma hypothetical straight off the blocks without so much as attempting to adapt it into the setting or story you can tell fandoms are more drawn to the subject matter than the execution.

 

[darkpatriot]

Is a dialogue heavy character viable in this game because combat looks like ass

For quest resolution, yes. Most quests I have seen have a way to talk your way through them, which I do. An entirely pacifist/talking way through is not possible, but you can skip many fights, portions of quests, and sometimes gain allies to help you fight via talking options and successful persuasions.

For world exploration, especially the procedural generated filler stuff, there are not a lot of ways to make use of talking skills and you will have to fight to gain loot. Most of that is optional though and you don't have to do it for the most part.

 

[Fedora Master]

One thing I have also really appreciated is that enemies try to fall back if you are overwhelming them, both individually if they take damage and as groups if you take out a bunch of them.

The AI is garbo and whatever you may attribute to it is most likely a fluke that's completely coincidental.

 

[darkpatriot]

One thing I have also really appreciated is that enemies try to fall back if you are overwhelming them, both individually if they take damage and as groups if you take out a bunch of them.

The AI is garbo and whatever you may attribute to it is most likely a fluke that's completely coincidental.

I've noticed it multiple times, so it is definitely deliberate. I don't think it is super advanced AI to give enemies some kind of survival motivation or anything. I think the reason games generally don't do that isn't because it is hard to program. They don't because players might not like it the enemy isn't constantly trying to aggressively attack them and it actually makes the combat easier. It is harder to deal with multiple enemies that are aggressively trying to attack you at the same time.

It isn't like they full on run away (wouldn't want players to lose out on loot, after all), but if you are decisively winning a fight (which you are usually in this game), the enemy does often try to fall back if they can. Especially if they have been wounded.

 

[Lemming42]

BG3 and Starfield don't need to fight. They're both good. Two big-name RPGs in the space of about a month, and they're both actually good. Not perfect, plenty of criticisms to make, especially of Starfield's first few hours and BG3's final few hours, but both are better than pretty much anything we got back in the 2000s.

Great year for people who ACTUALLY PLAY VIDEOGAMES

Anyway, Crimson Fleet questline: I really love what they're going for but it doesn't fully come off. There are a few "social stealth" bits that almost suggest like they're going to play out like Hitman. Infiltrating the party on the luxury cruiser and trying to steal the ComSpike from the military ship are both way cool conceptually, but torpedoed by the presence of the quest compass. I think one great mod could be a quest compass removal one, like Skyrim had - though navigating New Atlantis would be a massive fucking hassle without the compass.

Still, Crimson Fleet is one of the most varied and engaging questlines Toddthesda have come up with in a long time.

 

[Eisenheinrich]

Interesting design on this helmet

Insert starcock here.

 

[Fedora Master]

Two big-name RPGs in the space of about a month, and they're both actually good.

No

 

[kroki]

its almost release weekend. please do the needful and buy starfield sirs
t. Siddharth Rakshit, 3D Artist

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Is a dialogue heavy character viable in this game because combat looks like ass

For quest resolution, yes. Most quests I have seen have a way to talk your way through them, which I do. An entirely pacifist/talking way through is not possible, but you can skip many fights, portions of quests, and sometimes gain allies to help you fight via talking options and successful persuasions.

For world exploration, especially the procedural generated filler stuff, there are not a lot of ways to make use of talking skills and you will have to fight to gain loot. Most of that is optional though and you don't have to do it for the most part.

That's the difference between bg3 and this. Bard dialogue options were cool but I actually didn't like missing out on big fights because the combat is fun (tho a bit too easy.) Dialogue skills are well developed but so is combat.

Combat looks very snoozy in this. Can you make credits doing non combat stuff like outposts and shipping cargo? Only thing that sounds fun is a talker/outpost/pilot type build

 

[Tehdagah]

Only in videogame boards a 88 score is considered bad.

 

[Lemming42]

Combat looks very snoozy in this. Can you make credits doing non combat stuff like outposts and what non? Only thing that sounds fun is a talker/outpost/pilot type build

You can make money off outposts and from mining. You also get a lot of money from doing quests, which often don't involve combat (though you're typically not made aware of what's going to happen ahead of time, since they're story-based with twists and such). Pleasingly, the majority of quests have speech solutions.

You may also make good money as a thief in this game, I think.

 

[darkpatriot]

Is a dialogue heavy character viable in this game because combat looks like ass

For quest resolution, yes. Most quests I have seen have a way to talk your way through them, which I do. An entirely pacifist/talking way through is not possible, but you can skip many fights, portions of quests, and sometimes gain allies to help you fight via talking options and successful persuasions.

For world exploration, especially the procedural generated filler stuff, there are not a lot of ways to make use of talking skills and you will have to fight to gain loot. Most of that is optional though and you don't have to do it for the most part.

That's the difference between bg3 and this. Bard dialogue options were cool but I actually didn't like missing out on big fights because the combat is fun (tho a bit too easy.) Dialogue skills are well developed but so is combat.

Combat looks very snoozy in this. Can you make credits doing non combat stuff like outposts and what non? Only thing that sounds fun is a talker/outpost/pilot type build

You can make a lot of money doing quests. Some of them involve no combat, have avoidable combat, or the amount of combat can be reduced by talking.

The main thing money is needed for, that I have found anyway, is starship customization. You can get enough credits from quests for that. I haven't really felt a need to spend on anything else.

I have only done a little base building. I started one basic outpost to check it out and drop off an NPC to make room to travel with other NPCs, but have yet to return to it to develop it more. But it sounds like you can automate production of things and stop by from time to time to pick them up to sell. Others who have done more extensive base building can probably answer better, though.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

I've playing this about a couple of hours. It is definetively one of the bethesda games of all time. Anyway, in what planet is that cute gurl from the pictures you are posting? Asking for a friend

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

I really, really do not like Bethesda combat lol. It's always so boring

 

[ind33d]

I really, really do not like Bethesda combat lol. It's always so boring

fallout 4 feels like destiny mixed with doom 2016, this is an insane opinion

 

[Late Bloomer]

I've playing this about a couple of hours. It is definetively one of the bethesda games of all time. Anyway, in what planet is that cute gurl from the pictures you are posting? Asking for a friend

That is a mod to make the hag more tolerable to look at.

 

[Tyranicon]

>Very Positive steam reviews

>Trailing BG3 in concurrent players on steam

Man, did not expect either of these.

 

[man-erg]

A couple more hours, a few more "It's so bad it's good" laugh out loud moments.

Does it not bother anyone else that this world is 300 years in the future, yet everything looks just much the same of the world of today? That 300 years ago, we didn't have computers, cars, planes, offices, ipads, trains, antibiotics, machine guns, yet now we have these and 1000s of other things. Yet in 2300, what is there new ? Nothing, only spaceships that appear to have less tech than a modern fighter. Offices look the same as today - and less futuristic than in Deus Ex, set a decade from now. I'm probably just an old man ranting shaking his fists at passing clouds, but this should in no way be called a sci fi game. There is no science fiction in it. It's easier to list the "future things" in it than the "things of today strangely appearing in the future". Because future things is ... nothing. Things of today "everything - except cars, we forgot them". I'm half expecting a plot twist and you find you were in 2023 USA all along, only being used for some CIA mind bending virtual reality experiment. That would be cool! Though that is already showing more imagination than Starfield.

I thought the NPCs were supposed to be realistic now? All I've seen is them stand around in spaceports, wherever, looking like zombies on valium, occasionally wandering 50 feet in one direction, before wandering back again. Love the googly eyes, though! Conversations with NPC's are surreally bland and in that uncanny valley. We can do better now, eg RDR2 you could go for hours talking to your group and random NPCs and a) what they said made sense in context b) rarely heard the same thing twice. The world building here is like some low budget indie title of 20 years ago, compared to what the big studios are doing now. Those who play the other AAA games, Cyberpunk, GTA, RDR, Assassins Creed etc, do they really not see how far behind them Starfield is in world building?

And then the shooting...it is so lacklustre. The weapons are dull. Is there anything that can match a fireball or lightening spell?

The law of big numbers, there's always somebody who will like anything, but surprised how often the same thing is getting mentioned in reviews - that people are "having a blast " with it. Sure, we have different tastes, but this has aspects that are close to ojectively bad. it's like some 1980's games that advertised "thousands of locations" yet all looked the same in the glorious wireframe 3D of the day. The UI is shaky, inventory management as poor as ever. The RPG elements, I can't really comment on as 6 hours in and I can't say I've seen any RPG in it yet. Go here...talk to this person who has something bland to say. I can't remember characters names, they are all so forgettable. I even forget the games name .. Spacefield,? Starworld?

It is all very unimaginitive, vanilla, safe and sterile. I guess we are all at different stages, and there's plenty of youngsters out there and casuals who haven't wasted decades on gaming (like I have), and I suppose for them it will give a few dozen hours of shallow, easy pastime. But for those further along the path, there's little of value in it. Nothing you won't have seen many times before - and done better. Ironically, even by Bethesda!