Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

[Tytus]

Preimse of robots stabbing you in the back is pretty retarded. Giving them any kind of programming that sort of gives them "free will" also so.

"Sire the robots are rebelling!"
"Rebelling? Why?"
"We programmed to become unruly if they didn't get oil change often enough"
...

You don't have to research sentient AI, but that means you'll be missing out on the bonuses they give. Other civs might research AI even if you don't, so your luddite civ will fall behind, and if their robots revolt it might spill into your empire enyway.
Sounds like choices have consequences

Yeah and that would go really cool with espionage (once they include it in an expansion) and CBs. An alien empire conducting technology you deemed too dangerous (should be a button where you can list technologies as too dangeroes) should give ou and automatic Casus Belli on that empire so you can stop them from doing it. But first you need to know what technology are they working on now (espionage would work really well with this).

And things is they even have something like that in the game already, but only for Fallen Empires. When you have a Knowledge Keeper trait on a Fallen Empire it will attack anyone who develops technologies that they are scared of or think younger races shouldn't have. But I don't really like mechanics that are exclusive for the AI. Everyone should play by the same rules.

 

[Destroid]

Maybe you can sign AI non-proliferation treaties.

 

[IDtenT]

Paradox's design philosophy is to release a blank state then have a dozen designers of average intelligence play multiplayer sessions over the years to figure out what features to introduce. Lots of back and forth with no coherent design vision ensues.

But... That's the best way to game design...

 

[Spectacle]

IIRC I read somewhere that another possible end game crisis is something akin to the birth of Slaneesh in 40K

And that highlighs how utterly fucked humanity is in 40K. It's supposed to be very unlikely to have more than one end game crisis in a single game of Stellaris, but the Empire of Man has already seen at least 3: Robot revolt, Chaos emerging from the warp and Tyrranid invasions. The Emperor protect us all.

 

[Tytus]

And that highlighs how utterly fucked humanity is in 40K. It's supposed to be very unlikely to have more than one end game crisis in a single game of Stellaris, but the Empire of Man has already seen at least 3: Robot revolt, Chaos emerging from the warp and Tyrranid invasions. The Emperor protect us all.

And on top of that Imperium of Man is a Fallen Empire by Stellaris standards. They stagnated and no new technologies are being developed. Also I can think of one more end game crisis they are facing. The Orkz. It's a bioweapon that got out of anyone's control and is basically destroying and terraforming every planet it reaches just by being there (and dying there) by spewing spores everywhere. They are basically the pinnacle of what a Fungoind alien can achieve. Maaaan, I really need that WH40k mod for Stellaris.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Making a WH40K mod with paradox's usual shit combat doesn't make much sense, as the fun of the setting is its perpetual state of War, having lackluster space engagements, and number stacking ground invasions would feel anticlimactic.

A star trek mod, with its reliance on inter species diplomacy and exploration, that would be awesome.

 

[Tytus]

A star trek mod, with its reliance on inter species diplomacy and exploration, that would be awesome.

Star Trek mod is great for exploration but diplomacy wouldn't be it strong feature. Babylon 5 however would be awesome at this. Especially that in Babylon 5 setting you have galactic nations on different level of scientific development and with different sized militaries. (That would really fit Stellaris) In Star Trek everyone is basically equivalent of each other. (Maybe with the exception of the Borg).

Making a WH40K mod with paradox's usual shit combat doesn't make much sense, as the fun of the setting is its perpetual state of War, having lackluster space engagements, and number stacking ground invasions would feel anticlimactic.

You have a point. But it would be great to have mod where you can play a Fallen Empire that is basically hostile to everyone and conducts no diplomacy (an aspect of the always war mod for EU4 would be great for this).

 

[Spectacle]

Making a WH40K mod with paradox's usual shit combat doesn't make much sense, as the fun of the setting is its perpetual state of War, having lackluster space engagements, and number stacking ground invasions would feel anticlimactic.

That's pretty much how combat must seem to the High Lords of Terra and other imperial commanders. Sure on the detail level we see in 40K tactics, troop types and equipment matters, but from the top it just about throwing a few more regiments or another fleet into the grinder. For them war is about prioritizing vast but still limited forces for dealing with far too many ongoing crises.

 

[Destroid]

The Imperium of Man seems like an extremely decentralised government in most representations, with space marine chapters and planetary governors having almost total autonomy.

 

[kris]

You don't have to research sentient AI, but that means you'll be missing out on the bonuses they give.

I would argue that making robots sentient actually would be detrimenal to their effectiveness. Suddenly it would like to do other things than what it is supposed to do and that is to work 24/7.

 

[Spectacle]

You don't have to research sentient AI, but that means you'll be missing out on the bonuses they give.

I would argue that making robots sentient actually would be detrimenal to their effectiveness. Suddenly it would like to do other things than what it is supposed to do and that is to work 24/7.

You should still have dumb robots doing constant dumb work, but when you have sentient robots they can replace inefficient organic workers in far more jobs.

 

[Spectacle]

The Imperium of Man seems like an extremely decentralised government in most representations, with space marine chapters and planetary governors having almost total autonomy.

Sorta. Planetary governors are given a lot autonomy in how they govern their worlds, but the planets are also part of a central plan and are required to provide specific tithes. As long as a world pays the tithe then the Imperium doesn't get involved in the planetary government.

It's definitely true that Space Marine chapters are left to their own devices, if they are needed for particular campaigns they are given requests rather than orders.

 

[Alienman]

Is there any documents/books and such on warhammer 40k that describes the lives of the ordinary citizen? All your talk her got me interested.

 

[Malakal]

Is there any documents/books and such on warhammer 40k that describes the lives of the ordinary citizen? All your talk her got me interested.

Empire has millions of planets inhabited by untold numbers of citizens, its impossible to declare how the average citizen is living his life.

 

[Trash]

The Eisenhorn novels do a decent job of bringing the Imperium to live. Not to mention that they are one of the very few WH40K novels that are worth reading. Even when you're not into WH40K.

Otherwise you can try and look at some of the rpg stuff. Bound to be some fluff parts there for worldbuilding.

 

[Hoodoo]

Yeah you outsource the alpha testing to naive gamers for 3 years straight.

 

[kris]

You don't have to research sentient AI, but that means you'll be missing out on the bonuses they give.

I would argue that making robots sentient actually would be detrimenal to their effectiveness. Suddenly it would like to do other things than what it is supposed to do and that is to work 24/7.

You should still have dumb robots doing constant dumb work, but when you have sentient robots they can replace inefficient organic workers in far more jobs.

But you dont need sentient robots for that. You just need purpose built robots for whatever thing they are doing. Unless with work you mean "be a human".

 

[IDtenT]

Yeah you outsource the alpha testing to naive gamers for 3 years straight.

What are you talking about? Part of the enjoyment of playing the game is having to constantly change play-styles to adapt to the new version.

Paradox game design follows the same parameters as sport. You create a rough framework and then adapt that framework according to how people play. Hell, it's the same way the market works.

 

[Raghar]

Is there any documents/books and such on warhammer 40k that describes the lives of the ordinary citizen? All your talk her got me interested.

Complete utter shit. Become 5 year unemployed in some more nasty country, which wants to dicredit all on welfare, and you'd see.

 

[Spectacle]

You don't have to research sentient AI, but that means you'll be missing out on the bonuses they give.

I would argue that making robots sentient actually would be detrimenal to their effectiveness. Suddenly it would like to do other things than what it is supposed to do and that is to work 24/7.

You should still have dumb robots doing constant dumb work, but when you have sentient robots they can replace inefficient organic workers in far more jobs.

But you dont need sentient robots for that. You just need purpose built robots for whatever thing they are doing. Unless with work you mean "be a human".

I mean knowledge work, such as research, strategy, and other stuff that requires that you actually understand what you are working on and that can't be done by a simple automaton.

 

[kris]

You don't have to research sentient AI, but that means you'll be missing out on the bonuses they give.

I would argue that making robots sentient actually would be detrimenal to their effectiveness. Suddenly it would like to do other things than what it is supposed to do and that is to work 24/7.

You should still have dumb robots doing constant dumb work, but when you have sentient robots they can replace inefficient organic workers in far more jobs.

But you dont need sentient robots for that. You just need purpose built robots for whatever thing they are doing. Unless with work you mean "be a human".

I mean knowledge work, such as research, strategy, and other stuff that requires that you actually understand what you are working on and that can't be done by a simple automaton.

You dont need a robot for that and it dont need to be sentient. Of course, the slippery slope is if you put a AI in control of your military.

 

[Spectacle]

You dont need a robot for that and it dont need to be sentient. Of course, the slippery slope is if you put a AI in control of your military.

Exactly what do you think the difference between a sentient and non-sentient robot/AI is anyway?

(Strategy doesn't have to be military strategy btw.)

 

[kris]

You dont need a robot for that and it dont need to be sentient. Of course, the slippery slope is if you put a AI in control of your military.

Exactly what do you think the difference between a sentient and non-sentient robot/AI is anyway?

(Strategy doesn't have to be military strategy btw.)

That would be a discussion about what sentient means.

I saw it as something that is self-aware and/or emotional. for the discussion I would see that as a robot that can act outside its programmed main purpose.

 

[Spectacle]

You dont need a robot for that and it dont need to be sentient. Of course, the slippery slope is if you put a AI in control of your military.

Exactly what do you think the difference between a sentient and non-sentient robot/AI is anyway?

(Strategy doesn't have to be military strategy btw.)

That would be a discussion about what sentient means.

I saw it as something that is self-aware and/or emotional. for the discussion I would see that as a robot that can act outside its programmed main purpose.

But do you think a robot could handle highly abstract tasks such as doing original research without being sentient? I don't think that is possible for an automaton, no matter how advanced.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

Is there any documents/books and such on warhammer 40k that describes the lives of the ordinary citizen?

The one rule of 40K lore is that everything is shit, everyplace, all the time. It's basically RPG Codex IN SPAACCCEEE!!!!!! but with slightly less racism. Simply think of the worse possible real world historical equivalent to any given facet of life in the Imperium of Man and that's exactly what it's like dialed up to eleven. What's life like for a low ranking crew member aboard an Imperial starship? It's like the very worst aspects of 17th/18th century European navies. What's life like for the average factory worker? It's like the very worst aspects of 19th industrialism. What's life like for a high ranking member of the Ecclesiarchy? It's like the very worst excesses of 15th/16th century Popes.

Generally 40k fluff and fiction only covers this stuff in passing, because it's almost entirely military fiction. The only novels I can think of off hand that are entirely focused on civilian organisations is the Shira Calpurnia series.