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kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,891
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Cleveland Mark Blakemore said:
kris said:
Except we ain't exactly starving to death.

No, not before nightfall.

But tomorrow could be a different story.

It must be bliss to be you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/opini ... ef=opinion

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... exclusives

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... 4/food.usa

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120881517227532621.html

Ripped those out of the world's headlines in thirty seconds. Need a thousand more links?

It happened that a fire broke out backstage in a theater. The clown came out to inform the public. They thought it was just a jest and applauded. He repeated his warning, they shouted even louder. So I think the world will come to an end amid general applause from all the wits, who believe it is a joke.

– Soren Kierkegaaard

A minority starving ain't gonna change the reality that there is more than enough food to feed the world population and that we could easily produce more. Especially if we stopped with shit like ethanol fuels. A couple of thousands starving in remote places of the earth won't exactly points towards any apocalypse.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
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Joined
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Messages
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LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
Gnidrologist said:
Do you really believe Cleve is extraordinary man, Jas?
That would only indicate you'r lack of knowedge of people in general. I've met types like him in my life quite often. Most of them weren't so articulate about their views and were weak debaters, but the main essence of Cleve's views on life are absolutely the same.
Self promoting, self rightous dickheads, who are so sure about their enlightended state, that no one could brerak it even with the most solid and rational questioning.

Socrates wasn't kidding, when he said:
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
.

I can never take seriously people, who are so into their own imaginary world, that they wouldn't even try to refute other opinions by logic, instead making weak potshots and ad hominems (which, ironicly, some codex memebers were accused).

I've been involved in discussions about the themes at had with lots of people, as i'm quite interested in them, but Cleve is just not someone i would like to discuss anything with. He's on par with religious fanatic, who would run around your neighborhood and shout at you ''END IS NIGH''. Would you try to have a reasonable verbal discourse with that kind of a person?

Is English your second language?

I knew a guy who suffered a blow to his head in an industrial accident who talked like this. It was largely gibberish.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
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Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,713
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
Suicidal said:
This will soon become an another "best thread ever". It gets at least 2 new pages each day.

Once during the yearly obstacle course run at Fort Riley, I found myself coming up on a group of soldiers who had fallen far behind the lead. We were only a kilometer past the starting point of the three kilometer course.

They turned around at me, looked at how haggard and tired I looked and they all sneered at me. "Hang in there, dud! If you fall out troop we gonna have ta kick yo ass! You need to pick up yo slack, dud!"

I just nodded at them and politely began to accelerate around them. They sneered again "Don't kick too early, boy, you gonna wear yoself out! Yu don't know how ta pace yoself! Ya better save it fo latah!"

A sergeant who was close behind them said, "Do you guys realize who that is?" One of them sneered and said "Looks like some dud ta me who can't hang."

The sergeant pulled up beside them jogging and I heard him say just as I passed out of range. "That's PFC Cleve Blakemore. He's not from our planet. He's also on his second lap. He's already passed the entire field by about two kilometers. He doesn't get tired the way ordinary, run of the mill humans like you do."

I feel this same way intellectually all the time.
 

Gnidrologist

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is cold
Cleveland Mark Blakemore said:
Is English your second language?
Yep. Even more so, i was drunk, which explains the spelling errors.
Anyway, i don't give a fuck. I'm not one of those idiots, who appologise for their weak english and smile lowly. As if english is some kind of superiour language. It's only used as a common means to communicate globaly, because of the simplicity to learn it's basics.
Care to share some thoughts in latvian?

Anyway, i like that the points you don't want to address you conveniently title as ''gibberish''. :applause:
A clear sign on intelectuall and moral decadance.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
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Joined
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Messages
11,713
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
Gnidrologist said:
Cleveland Mark Blakemore said:
Is English your second language?
Yep. Even more so, i was drunk, which explains the spelling errors.
Anyway, i don't give a fuck. I'm not one of those idiots, who appologise for their weak english and smile lowly. As if english is some kind of superiour language. It's only used as a common means to communicate globaly, because of the simplicity to learn it's basics.
Care to share some thoughts in latvian?

Anyway, i like that the points you don't want to address you conveniently title as ''gibberish''. :applause:
A clear sign on intelectuall and moral decadance.

Drunk for that post?

Or just drunk, period?
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
One could ask you the same thing, Cleve. How arrogant your posts are! You see yourself as an intellectual titan and belittle everyone who is not an Asperger-afflicted genius.

Make no mistake, I do not doubt your intellectual capabilities - after all, I once collected C64 magazines, and know for sure.

But how you use your gift! How dreary your view of the world has become! You have given up. You have given up on people. Nothing will ever change. In your firm belief nobody under, say, IQ 130 understands you or other people who do try to change the world for the better; you are not changing it at all.

Tell me, Cleve. When the war comes - and I have little doubt it will come before 2100; I have learned too much about China not to - what will you do? Will you go to your bunker? Will you emerge triumphant after fourty years, telling what survivors - now turned to barbarism - you find "I told you so!"?

You have no respect for the common man, Cleve, and that is your undoing.

Brecht said:
Who built Thebes with its seven gates?
They only chronicled the names of kings.
Have kings carried the stones and boulders?
And Babylon, destroyed many a time -
Who rebuilt it so often? In which houses
of gold-emblazoned Lima lived the workers?

Where did they go on the eve as the Great Wall of China was completed?
Great Rome was full of Triumphal Archs. Who built them? Did the mighty Byzantine Empire only have
palaces for its inhabitants? Even in fabled Atlantis
the drowning, in the night in which the sea devoured it, yelled for their slaves.
Young Alexander conquered India.
By himself?
Caesar defeated the Gauls.
Didn't he at least have a cook along?
Phillip of Spain cried as his royal fleet had sunk. No one else?
Frederick the Second won in the Seven Year's War.
Who
won also?

A victory on every side.
Who cooked the food for the celebrations?
All ten years a great man.
Who paid the expenses?

So many accounts.
So many questions.

You speak of shadows on a cave wall.
Then you must extend your hand and guide people out of the cave to see the sun and be blinded by it; and if they bite your hand, you must extend your other hand.

You say that to reason with ordinary people is a waste of time. Had Sokrates thought so, he would have left us very, very little. Just like you will leave mankind very, very little.

You've made yourself a tomb of steel and mortar, and abandoned mankind. I always thought you cared about our civilization, and what others perceived as madness was just your own drive to save our culture. But I was wrong.

You have become bitter, and I am bitter in return. Instead of letting people learn you write them off as "ordinary". You do not even have the capability of telling who is ordinary and who isn't! You are full of hubris.

Ordinary men and women want sex, power and dominance? Maslow disagrees - once base desires are met, even the "ordinary" human - and the division alone is sheer hubris and arrogance - desire higher things, the most sacred of all transcendence.

What use is your bitter moping? What use your rambling? If you do not even think "ordinary" minds understand you?

You can not know who is ordinary and who is not. Nor will you ever.

Return to wherever you came. You've become a sad, empty husk of once-noble ideals and dreams.
 

luckyb0y

Scholar
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
355
I was wondering, if you're so smart that no one here can possibly comprehend what you are trying to say, why do you waste your time here? I mean over 70 posts in what? Six days. And quite wordy ones you must admit. I don't think even kc or andhaira aproached this level of involvement. Why bother? I thought people with your condition don't really care about other's opinion. Why waste your precious time on the pointless disscusions on the internet forum. Are you trying to enlight us? Well, your condescending attitude proves otherwise. If you think you are so superior that you just hitting the wall here, just piss off already.
 

Nutcracker

Scholar
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
935
I hope Cleve stays at the Codex.

His arrogance is annoying indeed, but how can you condemn him? He is intelligent and articulate, and although part of every Codexer wants to write him off as an oddball lunatic ...there's just something hammering away in my head that says maybe this guy is right. He's not crazy. Sure he's a little eccentric but what has he actually done to demonstrate insanity? Built a shelter to house his family if/when the apocalypse comes. They dont live in the goddamn shelter now. Maybe it wont get used in his lifetime...but hell, i wouldnt mind one as an insurance policy.

The fact that he built one shows commitment...shows determination, pride, dedication to his family. This man may well pass on his genes while our testicles wither from extreme doses of radiation. His theories on moral decline, whilst making use of muddled examples, essentially all have a kernel of truth of them that one can observe in the writings of Higher Game and Lyric Suite. Sure, Cleve may not be the Messiah or the genius of our times, but i'd rather read his posts than those of a good % of members here.
 

luckyb0y

Scholar
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
355
I didn't say he's insane, did I? I just find his attitude tiresome. No point in trying to discuss, when anything you say is dismissed as gibberish and only invites him to rant some more about his superiority.
 

Gnidrologist

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Humanityu has been in ''moral decline'' always. Because there weren't any straight and virtuos society ever. If one believes in that, one believes in fairy tale.

The fact that now we can know what any average joe likes to fuck in his spare time doesn't mean it's something new.
Does someone, besides Cleve, really believe, that this ''moral decline'' and the overflow of trash information that we are showered via various media, especially internet, is just a coincidence?

In, say, 19th century tale about some old geezer, who raped his daughter for 24 years in the basement would not go further than local neghborhood and police protocols. Now everyone and his dog is exposed to sutch information.

Some people really have too mutch illusions about the nature of human being. Internet, besides it's sheer entertainment value, is a good mirror, that honestly depicts all the various sides of us. No need to pretend, that it's just a product of some mythic decadance. Don't lie to yourself. We are what we are. Period.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
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LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
Gnidrologist said:
Humanityu has been in ''moral decline'' always. Because there weren't any straight and virtuos society ever. If one believes in that, one believes in fairy tale.

The fact that now we can know what any average joe likes to fuck in his spare time doesn't mean it's something new.
Does someone, besides Cleve, really believe, that this ''moral decline'' and the overflow of trash information that we are showered via various media, especially internet, is just a coincidence?

In, say, 19th century tale about some old geezer, who raped his daughter for 24 years in the basement would not go further than local neghborhood and police protocols. Now everyone and his dog is exposed to sutch information.

Some people really have too mutch illusions about the nature of human being. Internet, besides it's sheer entertainment value, is a good mirror, that honestly depicts all the various sides of us. No need to pretend, that it's just a product of some mythic decadance. Don't lie to yourself. We are what we are. Period.

This is what the televitz wants to train you to believe. It's wrong.

Don't start foaming, just wait a second and listen to me.

The most important feelings that our ancestors had, that modern people could not understand, arefear and shame. Oprah says it's a bad thing. She would, being a teen mother who aborted her child.

Let's compare modern people and Americans of fifty years ago, I'll show you the difference.

1. Men fifty years ago knew shame. They were fearful of being exposed as people of bad character, thought depraved or creatures of impulse. They had prodigious amounts of face to consider at all times. Not just bad people, either - people we would consider enormously virtuous sweated over tiny trivial details of their life they worried might expose them to scandal. Fifty years ago, your daughter being pregnant out of wedlock could actually require you to leave the country from sheer embarrassment. That's right.

2. Modern people scarcely have any acquaintance with these emotions. The only thing left in the world (Theodore Dalrymple, again, writes about this in his most recent book) that can make a modern person feel shame is to accuse them of child molestation or racism. Other than that, the sky is the limit. There is almost nothing else that can even prompt people nowadays to reflect on their own actions. For all intents and purposes, modern man is the first human generation to be born without any conscience of any kind in over a thousand years or more. That's how different they are from previous eras. Your average person knows no right or wrong outside of political correctness, which was formerly considered utterly different from codes of personal conduct.

3. Even more incredibly, scandal nowadays does not ruin a man, rather it enriches him and gives him social opportunity and access that might have previously been impossible. John Bobbit turned his ugly penchant for wife abuse and the resulting amputation of his penis into a lucrative career in the porn industry. The worse the bastardry, the higher a man can set his sights. George W. Bush has led a life of vice, villainy and sloth so appallingly abhorrent that in prior times he might have been a candidate for a lynch mob. Today he is President of the United States and has been for two terms.

4. This dysgenics does not just rule the broad public sphere. At every level of our society, men who clearly show signs they are sociopaths by nature tend to occupy our institutions and provide everyone else with the standard by which they will be judged. It's a dictatorship of the least, the worst and the weakest and most offensive.

Now rather than allow ourselves to get overstimulated by this insight, let's stay iceberg cool and think about previous eras. The final days of the Roman Empire are suspiciously similar, with a rogue's gallery of murderous monstrosities who seemed to lack any human compassion of any kind. Nero set fire to Rome and killed hundreds because he wanted to redesign it's layout. Caligula didn't just have his rivals killed, he had them tortured for years to madness. They poisoned, stabbed, burned and plotted their lives and the empire itself away for the sake of their mad desire for power.

Rome wasn't like that at all in the beginning. Neither was America. It's only like this at the end.

So all of that to present my summary.

Ascending societies are founded and fostered by people who are sincere.

Declining societies are looted and destroyed by sociopaths.

In terms of who occupies the institutions, the people in a society that is ascending are the biological anti-matter opposite of the people who ride it out into Ragnarok. Not just the people in the history books, either, but rather many men who never had biographers.

Again, I suspect biology somewhere at the root of all of this great cyclic recurrence.

P.S. Wherever you wake up/are born on this parabola, you are foolish indeed if you think you can change it one iota. That's not an adult perspective. You can only change your own destiny but you cannot intervene in the destiny of a civilization. If you look at any mosaic or depiction of destruction carved by ancient peoples, you will always see people in the lower right corner somehow surviving to make their way to safety. The only intelligent thing to strive for in times like ours is to someday appear at that place in that mural.
 

luckyb0y

Scholar
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
355
This is what the televitz wants to train you to believe. It's wrong.

Don't start foaming, just wait a second and listen to me.

The most important feelings that our ancestors had, that modern people could not understand, arefear and shame. Oprah says it's a bad thing. She would, being a teen mother who aborted her child.

Let's compare modern people and Americans of fifty years ago, I'll show you the difference.

1. Men fifty years ago knew shame. They were fearful of being exposed as people of bad character, thought depraved or creatures of impulse. They had prodigious amounts of face to consider at all times. Not just bad people, either - people we would consider enormously virtuous sweated over tiny trivial details of their life they worried might expose them to scandal. Fifty years ago, your daughter being pregnant out of wedlock could actually require you to leave the country from sheer embarrassment. That's right.

Are you so sure about that? You are talking about very specific social classes in a distinct type of society. How's that proving anything? Just because they were hypocritical and afraid of being exposed doesn't mean they were so virtuous behind the doors of their own homes. It's just that today's media-centric and celebrity obsessed society makes it more visible. While I think it is a bad thing I wouldn't go so far as to declare the decline of mankind. Actually I think that people will eventually become fed up with this voyerist crap and start going about their lives instead of indulging in this unhealthy fascination.

2. Modern people scarcely have any acquaintance with these emotions. The only thing left in the world (Theodore Dalrymple, again, writes about this in his most recent book) that can make a modern person feel shame is to accuse them of child molestation or racism. Other than that, the sky is the limit. There is almost nothing else that can even prompt people nowadays to reflect on their own actions. For all intents and purposes, modern man is the first human generation to be born without any conscience of any kind in over a thousand years or more. That's how different they are from previous eras. Your average person knows no right or wrong outside of political correctness, which was formerly considered utterly different from codes of personal conduct.

That is an assumption you base on a few individuals. I assure you that most people would be quite ashamed if they were caught not paying the bus fare. Just because degeneration sells and therefore is highly publicised doesn't mean its a trend in society.

3. Even more incredibly, scandal nowadays does not ruin a man, rather it enriches him and gives him social opportunity and access that might have previously been impossible. John Bobbit turned his ugly penchant for wife abuse and the resulting amputation of his penis into a lucrative career in the porn industry. The worse the bastardry, the higher a man can set his sights. George W. Bush has led a life of vice, villainy and sloth so appallingly abhorrent that in prior times he might have been a candidate for a lynch mob. Today he is President of the United States and has been for two terms.

John Bobbit example hardly convinces me. How about Herostratos burning a temple to gain fame - well he certainly succeeded. Bush support is dropping fast - that only proves people make mistakes, but they usually realise they did even if they don't want to admit it. Not to mention that he's not the only bad ruler in the history. I don't have time to look for it but I'm sure I could find plenty of tyrants and opressors ruling during good times, if I did.

4. This dysgenics does not just rule the broad public sphere. At every level of our society, men who clearly show signs they are sociopaths by nature tend to occupy our institutions and provide everyone else with the standard by which they will be judged. It's a dictatorship of the least, the worst and the weakest and most offensive.

While I share your disgust with politics in general. I don't really think it's that different from what's been going on for ages. There are two kind of politicians - people genuinly interested in making world a better place and people lusting for power, money etc. Unfortunately as with the famous statement that 90% of everything is crap, the latter outnumber the former 9 to 1.

Now rather than allow ourselves to get overstimulated by this insight, let's stay iceberg cool and think about previous eras. The final days of the Roman Empire are suspiciously similar, with a rogue's gallery of murderous monstrosities who seemed to lack any human compassion of any kind. Nero set fire to Rome and killed hundreds because he wanted to redesign it's layout. Caligula didn't just have his rivals killed, he had them tortured for years to madness. They poisoned, stabbed, burned and plotted their lives and the empire itself away for the sake of their mad desire for power.

Rome wasn't like that at all in the beginning. Neither was America. It's only like this at the end.

So all of that to present my summary.

Ascending societies are founded and fostered by people who are sincere.

Declining societies are looted and destroyed by sociopaths.

In terms of who occupies the institutions, the people in a society that is ascending are the biological anti-matter opposite of the people who ride it out into Ragnarok. Not just the people in the history books, either, but rather many men who never had biographers.

Again, I suspect biology somewhere at the root of all of this great cyclic recurrence.

P.S. Wherever you wake up/are born on this parabola, you are foolish indeed if you think you can change it one iota. That's not an adult perspective. You can only change your own destiny but you cannot intervene in the destiny of a civilization. If you look at any mosaic or depiction of destruction carved by ancient peoples, you will always see people in the lower right corner somehow surviving to make their way to safety. The only intelligent thing to strive for in times like ours is to someday appear at that place in that mural.

Overall you sound very bitter about modern world. I really can symphatise with this point of view as I am not entirely satisfied with it myself. I just don't think it's a sign of decline. You can't really compare a world where I can be on the other side of the globe in half a day, have acces to all the information I need or don't, don't have to strive for food and shelter all day long with ages past. Everything is different now and while it causes some future shock in more wys that I'd like it to I'm sure it will eventually work out in the end. Please don't just dismiss that thought as rambling of a man who can't grap things the way you can. You can be sure you're not the only one.

PS to admins
Can you make the window for editing your post any bigger. I have 20'' screen at work and it's so fucking small it's barely usable.
 

Nicolai

DUMBFUCK
Joined
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Messages
3,219
Location
Yonder
Cleve is basically a super-charged version of Jasede, it is all very :Auschwitz is a semaphore from the past that spells future:
 

aron searle

Arcane
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,720
Location
United Kingdom (of retardation)
Cleveland Mark Blakemore said:
1. Men fifty years ago knew shame. snip

You're confusing social intolerance to individual conscience and moral codes.

That's how different they are from previous eras. Your average person knows no right or wrong outside of political correctness, which was formerly considered utterly different from codes of personal conduct.

Except thats just complete bollocks.

3. Even more incredibly, scandal nowadays does not ruin a man, rather it enriches him and gives him social opportunity and access that might have previously been impossible. John Bobbit turned his ugly penchant for wife abuse and the resulting amputation of his penis into a lucrative career in the porn industry. The worse the bastardry, the higher a man can set his sights. George W. Bush has led a life of vice, villainy and sloth so appallingly abhorrent that in prior times he might have been a candidate for a lynch mob. Today he is President of the United States and has been for two terms.

Nowdays?

You'll need to provide some (non specific) examples as to how this is somehow a modern trait.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,713
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
kris said:
A minority starving ain't gonna change the reality that there is more than enough food to feed the world population and that we could easily produce more. Especially if we stopped with shit like ethanol fuels. A couple of thousands starving in remote places of the earth won't exactly points towards any apocalypse.

I was in Cole's supermarket today and when I asked what had happened to the fruit section, the manager looked like he was going to faint. He stammered something about "a problem that is not going to clear up any time soon." Then he said, "If you think there's a fruit shortage, go over and have a look in grains." Many of the shelves were empty there. Remember, I predicted the Trifecta in 1999 in my earliest post on Vault-Co. Back before it even sounded sane, I said the triangle of resource conflicts, climate change and the death of pollinators was going to produce the worst famine in human history. That was TEN YEARS AGO I predicted that. A decade ago, nobody knew what I was talking about. That's why I have Cassandra's Complex.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
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Oct 16, 2005
Messages
26,884
Location
Cognitive Elite HQ
Guys I just learned from a video from CNN that white people learn as babies from toys in their cribs, while black people, being more social and in general superior, learn from people (this difference is possibly why whites are so racist, they see everything as an object and playtoy). Also that white people hate jazz if they like Mozart.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
Cleveland Mark Blakemore said:
For all intents and purposes, modern man is the first human generation to be born without any conscience of any kind in over a thousand years or more. That's how different they are from previous eras. Your average person knows no right or wrong outside of political correctness, which was formerly considered utterly different from codes of personal conduct.

You are a fool that doesn't even know the meaning of consciousness. I seriously haven't read such a long winded piece of utter bullshit in a long, long time. Thank you. I needed that. My confidence is once again restored, so I can go back to being a sociopath. :roll:
 

Krancor

Scholar
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
115
luckyb0y said:
I was in sainsbury's yesterday and everything was fine and dandy. Sure the food prices are rising. Until recently they were the lowest ever. Predicting famine is pretty far fetched don't you think.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10252015

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10250420

Oh boy, the economist is always a laugh. 14 million people starve to death every year, but there is no food shortage? How it should read is "Between 1950 and 1975 food prices dropped 80% do to new fertilizers and since then they have steadily gained in price and the speed with which prices soar has been steadily increasing as well."

Half of the world has a ridiculous diet that consists mostly of rice and cooking oil.

There's plenty of famine and always has been and always will be so long as people continue to breed like maggots when they can't even feed themselves, it's just that the western world (for now) has all the economic advanatges over everyone else. That's rapidly changing, though, which means who starves and who has plenty could change as well.

I don't see how stockpiling rice is a great answer to this, though. Are you going to save enough rice for all your family to live off of indefinitely?

War at its heart is fueled by resource shortages. It is very simple to feed the whole world and live in peace and prosperity if people simply stop breeding beyond what it takes to replenish their populations, but even suggesting that crazy idea makes people call you a nazi. Stopping population growth should be the number one world priority.
 

luckyb0y

Scholar
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
355
Krancor said:
Oh boy, the economist is always a laugh. 14 million people starve to death every year, but there is no food shortage?

Half of the world has a ridiculous diet that consists mostly of rice and cooking oil.

There's plenty of famine and always has been and always will be so long as people continue to breed like maggots when they can't even feed themselves, it's just that the western world (for now) has all the economic advanatges over everyone else. That's rapidly changing, though, which means who starves and who has plenty could change as well.

I don't see how stockpiling rice is a great answer to this, though. Are you going to save enough rice for all future blakemores to live off of indefinitely?

War at its heart is fueled by resource shortages. It is very simple to feed the whole world and live in peace and prosperity if people simply stop breeding beyond what it takes to replenish their populations, but even suggesting that crazy idea makes people call you a nazi. Stopping population growth should be the number one world priority.

14 million as much as it is sad is hardly significant. I didn't say there is plenty of food for everyone, I just said it's quite far from the global disaster Cleve has predicted.

So fucking what they eat rice and oil. I don't eat lobster everyday either. The point is the basic nutrients are still there.

More like war is sometimes fueled by resource shortages. Do you honestly think that if we capped the population at current level all our problems would go away? Have you actually read these articles. It's easy and really cheap to spew lines like "the economist is always a laugh'' how about some thought out argument for a change. Eh?
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
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Messages
14,065
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Behind you.
Krancor said:
Oh boy, the economist is always a laugh. 14 million people starve to death every year, but there is no food shortage?

There's plenty of food to feed the entire world right now. The problem is that those 14 million people live in countries where the leaders withhold food for political powerplay reasons. North Korea and a huge chunk of African nations come to mind.

Of course, since we're doing stupid shit in America with our corn as opposed to importing sugar from Brazil and making ethanol out of that due to protectionist tariffs on sugar grown in Hawaii, who knows where we'll be next year. Turning our corn in to ethanol is the stupidest thing any country has done in a long time and it's having global consequences. We're producing less wheat due to subsidies on corn. It's driving up the cost of dairy products because feed for dairy cows has gone up. It's driving up the cost of meat as well because of the feed prices. It's bang your head on the desk stupid.
 

Krancor

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luckyb0y said:
Krancor said:
Oh boy, the economist is always a laugh. 14 million people starve to death every year, but there is no food shortage?

Half of the world has a ridiculous diet that consists mostly of rice and cooking oil.

There's plenty of famine and always has been and always will be so long as people continue to breed like maggots when they can't even feed themselves, it's just that the western world (for now) has all the economic advanatges over everyone else. That's rapidly changing, though, which means who starves and who has plenty could change as well.

I don't see how stockpiling rice is a great answer to this, though. Are you going to save enough rice for all future blakemores to live off of indefinitely?

War at its heart is fueled by resource shortages. It is very simple to feed the whole world and live in peace and prosperity if people simply stop breeding beyond what it takes to replenish their populations, but even suggesting that crazy idea makes people call you a nazi. Stopping population growth should be the number one world priority.

14 million as much as it is sad is hardly significant. I didn't say there is plenty of food for everyone, I just said it's quite far from the global disaster Cleve has predicted.

So fucking what they eat rice and oil. I don't eat lobster everyday either. The point is the basic nutrients are still there.

More like war is sometimes fueled by resource shortages. Do you honestly think that if we capped the population at current level all our problems would go away? Have you actually read these articles. It's easy and really cheap to spew lines like "the economist is always a laugh'' how about some thought out argument for a change. Eh?

So what you're saying is so long as you personally have food, there's no crisis even though about half the planet has the 'basic nutrition' of being hungry every day of their life. Well, it's not very smart thinking because like I said just because the west is on top now doesn't mean that will always be the case. Globalization means...globalization, as in everyone is in the same boat (and starving). You will have to fight for your rice all too soon if the world's conditions don't improve.

I agree that it's pretty alarmist of cleve because the sad truth is that even if (more like when) things get drastically worse the people who starve will almost all be outside the western world...but like I said, don't count on that being the case in 50 years. Of course we'll probably be dead then but that's no reason to fuck the next generation. Long before then people will see their diets become shittier and shiiter, though. Which has already happened to a surprising degree in the last 30 years.
 

luckyb0y

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Where did I say I don't care for these people? There were times in my life that I were starving and sustaining on really basic stuff. I don't envy people who live their whole lives like that. I just said that 14 million is relatively insignificant compared to 6 billion world population.

Also what saint said. The reasons people are starving are not beacause we don't produce enough food. Care to think about how much food is wasted everyday in the west. Just go through your or your neighbours bin someday. Think how many people feed this way in the so called developed world. I tell you, you can have quite a feast this way. People throw away unopened items just because best by date is few days past. How ridiculous is that?
 

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