Development Info Swen Vincke on the making of Divinity: Original Sin 2 at GDC 2019

[Excommunicator]

They are all traced to pipeline. Suddenly this amount of words becomes 1 million words? Decision to add full vo to RPG, a genre of games which take years to make, 9 months before release? multiple teams through different timezones working on multiple chapters? a lead arguing with 9 writers over the plot?

it is like trying to build a building where lead architect argues with workers layering walls and all workers are from different teams and half of them are deaf and other half is blind.

is there no systemic way of creating a goddamn plan for making a game? no wonder games come out is such a sorry state, this is madness, not development.

That's just another way of spinning it and doesn't address the underlying problem that developers actually do have to give up their ridiculous obsession with ultra verbose RPGs, especially when they don't have the resources nor the skill to do it

 

[luj1]

I still believe full VO is a big mistake and completely unnecessary "feature", adding a huge cost. I wonder how big a part in overall DOS2 budget VO was.

It's a horrible trend

 

[Gwendo]

Play Divine Divinity again and then DOS or DOS2 again and tell me that either of the latter are more fun and engaging. No way.

DOS2 is, to me, much more fun to play than DD.

 

[Israfael]

Not sure about the dialogues VO but in the current environment voice actors certainly add more flavor and make the NPCs more memorable for the masses (compare original NWN2 to Pillars, for example) even if the story and character development is not that good. Would Minsc be remembered if his lines were not voiced, I wonder.

Also, don't really get the hate for 'unnatural' armor in a system that was game-y and not a simulation from the get-go. I guess some like mindless CC spam and tactical spell nukes from the level 1 instead of trying to play more strategically. And I'm saying this as a person who loathes the nu-XCOM more than anything. For some reason it's perfectly acceptable to 'git gud' in DS-like games, but here it's a huge no-no. Roxor seems to be fine with stat-gating in Elex, but here it's artificial and wrong somehow

 

[JarlFrank]

Also, don't really get the hate for 'unnatural' armor in a system that was game-y and not a simulation from the get-go. I guess some like mindless CC spam and tactical spell nukes from the level 1 instead of trying to play more strategically. And I'm saying this as a person who loathes the nu-XCOM more than anything. For some reason it's perfectly acceptable to 'git gud' in DS-like games, but here it's a huge no-no. Roxor seems to be fine with stat-gating in Elex, but here it's artificial and wrong somehow

It's just a lame system that leads to only one playstyle being valid: prioritizing high damage to get down enemy armor, then using the status effects.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Also, don't really get the hate for 'unnatural' armor in a system that was game-y and not a simulation from the get-go. I guess some like mindless CC spam and tactical spell nukes from the level 1 instead of trying to play more strategically. And I'm saying this as a person who loathes the nu-XCOM more than anything. For some reason it's perfectly acceptable to 'git gud' in DS-like games, but here it's a huge no-no. Roxor seems to be fine with stat-gating in Elex, but here it's artificial and wrong somehow

It's just a lame system that leads to only one playstyle being valid: prioritizing high damage to get down enemy armor, then using the status effects.

I could argue that the original system was even lamer: It had a clear dominant stategy that consisted in spamming ASAP your most effective CC-AoE spell and then finish the job confortably. This strategy was so dominant that made almost any fight in the game trivial no matter the difficulty level you picked.

Mind you, I'm not a fan of the solution they've implemented. Not at all. But it is fair to say that the new armor system was implemented because there was a (macroscopic) issue to be addresses in the first place...

 

[JarlFrank]

Also, don't really get the hate for 'unnatural' armor in a system that was game-y and not a simulation from the get-go. I guess some like mindless CC spam and tactical spell nukes from the level 1 instead of trying to play more strategically. And I'm saying this as a person who loathes the nu-XCOM more than anything. For some reason it's perfectly acceptable to 'git gud' in DS-like games, but here it's a huge no-no. Roxor seems to be fine with stat-gating in Elex, but here it's artificial and wrong somehow

It's just a lame system that leads to only one playstyle being valid: prioritizing high damage to get down enemy armor, then using the status effects.

I could argue that the original system was even lamer: It had a clear dominant stategy that consisted in spamming ASAP your most effective CC-AoE spell and the finish the job confortably. This strategy was so dominant that made almost any fight in the game trivial no matter the difficulty level you picked.

Mind you, I'm not a fan of the solution they've implemented. Not at all. But it is fair to say that the armor system was implemented because there was a (macroscopic) issue to be addresses in the first place...

Which is more of an issue of spell balance - some effects were overpowered, too easily triggered, and lasted to long. When a spell lets you stun-lock enemies for 3 turns without a saving throw, it's the spell that should be changed.

Now you have to whittle down the armor before any status effects at all can apply - and once the armor is down you use those same overpowered status effect spells again.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Also, don't really get the hate for 'unnatural' armor in a system that was game-y and not a simulation from the get-go. I guess some like mindless CC spam and tactical spell nukes from the level 1 instead of trying to play more strategically. And I'm saying this as a person who loathes the nu-XCOM more than anything. For some reason it's perfectly acceptable to 'git gud' in DS-like games, but here it's a huge no-no. Roxor seems to be fine with stat-gating in Elex, but here it's artificial and wrong somehow

It's just a lame system that leads to only one playstyle being valid: prioritizing high damage to get down enemy armor, then using the status effects.

I could argue that the original system was even lamer: It had a clear dominant stategy that consisted in spamming ASAP your most effective CC-AoE spell and the finish the job confortably. This strategy was so dominant that made almost any fight in the game trivial no matter the difficulty level you picked.

Mind you, I'm not a fan of the solution they've implemented. Not at all. But it is fair to say that the armor system was implemented because there was a (macroscopic) issue to be addresses in the first place...

Which is more of an issue of spell balance - some effects were overpowered, too easily triggered, and lasted to long. When a spell lets you stun-lock enemies for 3 turns without a saving throw, it's the spell that should be changed.

Now you have to whittle down the armor before any status effects at all can apply - and once the armor is down you use those same overpowered status effect spells again.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm prone to think that nerfing the cc spells would have been an even less popular solution.

The whole combat system in DOS is built around surfaces. They enhances the power and widens the AoE of CC spells. So, these spells have to be balanced 2 times: in the basic version and in the "enhanced" version. Which is to say, either you have an overpowered enhaced version or you have an underpowered basic version.

In the first game the devs clearly choose the former solution. Doing the opposite would have been even worse in my opinion.

 

[Israfael]

Mind you, I'm not a fan of the solution they've implemented. Not at all. But it is fair to say that the new armor system was implemented because there was a (macroscopic) issue to be addresses in the first place...

Yeah, it's a matter of preference. Also, there's different spells that are not affected by armor and there are spells and abilities (which AI sometimes uses) that allow you (or the NPCs) to get rid of the stun. I guess they could have added more and give them more oomph, but then it's be the same 'spam X' fest as usual. Maybe they could just remove stuns alltogether or add DR system like in WoW that diminished effectiveness with each successive loss of control

Now you have to whittle down the armor before any status effects at all can apply - and once the armor is down you use those same overpowered status effect spells again.

Have you, uh, actually played the game on harder difficulties? There are lots of ways to get armor back, immunity from certain elements (and related effects). I'd understand if you said it's too binary and predictable, but some people (not me, fwiw) like such 'chess-like' gameplay. I believe it's dull, but not worse than CC spamfest

 

[JarlFrank]

Yeah, it's still a bit too binary for my taste. Game was still fun, but I didn't like the armor system overall. It's a band-aid solution for problems that are more inherent and require a system overhaul to be fixed entirely.

Looking forward to what Swen will come up with for the next game in that regard.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I still believe full VO is a big mistake and completely unnecessary "feature", adding a huge cost. I wonder how big a part in overall DOS2 budget VO was.

I used to think this as well for years.
Now that the potential audience is much, much wider and the cost nowhere near as impactful as it could have been years ago, I've become more aware that this mentality is self-deluded pseudo-elitist crap at best.
No voice over is simply going to be a death sentence in the current market, unless you want to sell only to old grumpy Codexers. And don't even consider consoles as a remotely viable option without it.

Also, to everyone saying "it seems all the games' problems can be traced back to its writing": I strongly disagree.
The writing was competent enough for me to simply not care about it and the voice acting more than adequate.

I still think the shitty itemization and a flawed progression system with inflated numbers are the two most blatant shortcomings in the final game.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Yeah, it's still a bit too binary for my taste. Game was still fun, but I didn't like the armor system overall. It's a band-aid solution for problems that are more inherent and require a system overhaul to be fixed entirely.

Looking forward to what Swen will come up with for the next game in that regard.

I mean, the simplest and most logical solution would have been a system where physical and magical armor gave you both a damage reduction and a higher chance to resist some specific effects.
Instead they went for an "extra health bars" system that made both damage and effects 100% ineffective while it lasted, and then suddenly 100% effective once gone. Definitely not ideal neither from a rational or mechanical standpoint.

 

[Lyre Mors]

I mean, the simplest and most logical solution would have been a system where physical and magical armor gave you both a damage reduction and a higher chance to resist some specific effects.

Speaking of which, the Armor-based Saving Throws Mod does exactly that and makes the combat in the game so much more fun and interesting. It blows my mind that this isn't the solution Larian came up with themselves, as it preserves the initial concept of their armor system, but introduces the chance and risk (ie Fun) of skills and effects having a chance of working or not working in the first 1/2 - 3/4 of a fight. Highly recommend people give it a shot if they ever return to D:OS II. Such a little tweak has made the combat so much more enjoyable for me.