Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[ArchAngel]

SCL devs promised some more good info this week, hopefully finally something about mechanics.

 

[getter77]

Yeah, I'm expecting lots from this next Community Update else this information tease will have run well and truly thin given GDC is done and dusted and I'd rather see them trumpeting what they've got with ample bombast.

 

[Roguey]

Haha D&D alignment is garbage you grogs, even DraQ agrees.

 

[ArchAngel]

D&D alignment if not used is useless. If they would just be using it as something that stands on your character sheet and is never used, they might as well remove it. In BG1, you had that paladin in a Inn attack your party if anyone was Evil and that was it.

 

[Tigranes]

Meh. I'm expecting a more RPGier version of Dark Alliance.

 

[Zombra]

D&D alignment if not used is useless. If they would just be using it as something that stands on your character sheet and is never used, they might as well remove it. In BG1, you had that paladin in a Inn attack your party if anyone was Evil and that was it.

Exactly. Write your character alignments down on an index card and tape it to the screen and it'll have just as much game impact as in the classics.

 

[Mustawd]

Haha D&D alignment is garbage you grogs, even DraQ agrees.

Actaly agreeing on this

D&D alignment if not used is useless. If they would just be using it as something that stands on your character sheet and is never used, they might as well remove it. In BG1, you had that paladin in a Inn attack your party if anyone was Evil and that was it.

Exactly. Write your character alignments down on an index card and tape it to the screen and it'll have just as much game impact as in the classics.

 

[imweasel]

Haha D&D alignment is garbage you grogs

No it isn't.

At least not if you like character building and reaction modifiers. But non-grogs don't need that, because they already have the perfect RPG: Skyrim. A game where you can be anything and everything all at the same time and your choices and build options don't have any consequences or affect anything at all.

Looks suspiciously like Divinity Original Sin. Seriously.

The game looks very good visually. I prefer full 3D scenes over static 2D ones.

 

[Grunker]

even DraQ agrees.

It surprises you that the ultra-simulationist fag to surpass all ultra-simulationist fags dislikes obviously abstracted systems?

 

[Bleed the Man]

Haha D&D alignment is garbage you grogs

No it isn't.

At least not if you like character building and reaction modifiers. But non-grogs don't need that, because they already have the perfect RPG: Skyrim. A game where you can be anything and everything all at the same time and your choices and build options don't have any consequences or affect anything at all.

What has to do Skyrim with the aligment system being shit? Alignment needs to go in favor of reputation mechanics, alignment is very restrictive and doesn't mesh well with morally ambiguos concepts.

 

[prodigydancer]

What has to do Skyrim with the aligment system being shit? Alignment needs to go in favor of reputation mechanics, alignment is very restrictive and doesn't mesh well with morally ambiguos concepts.

A common fallacy. Alignment is not restrictive at all and doesn't preclude the character from making whatever choices he or she wants to make. Ultimately, however, alignment will shift to reflect the choices made. Morally ambiguous choices can be simply exempted because they are few and far between.

 

[Bleed the Man]

What has to do Skyrim with the aligment system being shit? Alignment needs to go in favor of reputation mechanics, alignment is very restrictive and doesn't mesh well with morally ambiguos concepts.

A common fallacy. Alignment is not restrictive at all and doesn't preclude the character from making whatever choices he or she wants to make. Ultimately, however, alignment will shift to reflect the choices made. Morally ambiguous choices can be simply exempted because they are few and far between.

I'm sorry, but how reputation mechanics are worse than alignment? They don't have comparatively any drawback, and the beneficts are just greater.

 

[prodigydancer]

Reputation is just a bland and one-dimensional concept.

If someone asked me to name three great things about D&D, I'd say: Monster Manual, Planescape and the alignment system.

 

[Bleed the Man]

Reputation is just a bland and one-dimensional concept.

I really fail to see how they're one-dimensional. And even then how is alignment any better?

 

[Sykar]

Reputation is just a bland and one-dimensional concept.

If someone asked me to name three great things about D&D, I'd say: Monster Manual, Planescape and the alignment system.

Alignment system is just as bland and even more arbitrary. No person is just strictly good/evil or lawful/chaotic. Every person has some of these traits to a degree or another. AD&D is a massive oversimplification which doesn't do the complex matter of morality any good or justice.

 

[prodigydancer]

how they're one-dimensional

Maybe by definition?

In fact, reputation has its purpose but it's not a replacement for alignment. What if I have high rep because I do all my evil deeds secretly? (Of course, video games generally don't care and give you -rep anyway even if there are no witnesses but that's just lazy design.)

 

[prodigydancer]

No person is just strictly good/evil or lawful/chaotic.

Alignment is a guideline, not a shoehorn.

I think I know where the misconception originates though. Some monsters, sometimes even intelligent ones, are indeed bound or compelled by their alignment because they don't have free will (either at all, like undead, or not in the usual sense, like demons). But you cannot apply that to humanoid PCs or NPCs.

 

[imweasel]

Alignment needs to go in favor of reputation mechanics, alignment is very restrictive and doesn't mesh well with morally ambiguos concepts.

Wat

E.g. Chaotic evil characters don't always have to act chaotically evil under every circumstance.

 

[Roguey]

Remember when Mask of the Betrayer could fuck over certain builds with alignment requirements because spirit-related crap would heavily shift your character to different alignments and you couldn't argue with the DM about it, bad times.

 

[ArchAngel]

Reputation is just a bland and one-dimensional concept.

If someone asked me to name three great things about D&D, I'd say: Monster Manual, Planescape and the alignment system.

The best RPG will have both. And use both during the game so the world actually feels alive. BG games had both but only used reputation and even that was not used often enough.

 

[Irenaeus]

Alignments are a great concept that fully represent motivations for D&D characters. Once you understand they are guidelines and PCs and NPCs are not little robots following their alignement blindly and that alignement shifts can happen, the game becames infinitely more interesting.

Remember when Mask of the Betrayer could fuck over certain builds with alignment requirements because spirit-related crap would heavily shift your character to different alignments and you couldn't argue with the DM about it, bad times.

C&C

 

[Infinitron]

Reputation is just a bland and one-dimensional concept.

If someone asked me to name three great things about D&D, I'd say: Monster Manual, Planescape and the alignment system.

The best RPG will have both. And use both during the game so the world actually feels alive. BG games had both but only used reputation and even that was not used often enough.

Uh, to make things clear, that's not really the kind of reputation we're talking about here, I think. "Reputation" in Baldur's Gate was just a silly light side/dark side karma score. We're talking about Fallout-style per-faction or per-location reputation.

 

[ArchAngel]

Reputation is just a bland and one-dimensional concept.

If someone asked me to name three great things about D&D, I'd say: Monster Manual, Planescape and the alignment system.

The best RPG will have both. And use both during the game so the world actually feels alive. BG games had both but only used reputation and even that was not used often enough.

Uh, to make things clear, that's not really the kind of reputation we're talking about here, I think. "Reputation" in Baldur's Gate was just a silly light side/dark side karma score. We're talking about Fallout-style per-faction or per-location reputation.

In that case, having alignment as well is not really needed. Per location reputation/karma is complex enough.

 

[Irenaeus]

Having alignments is mandatory.

 

[ArchAngel]

Having alignments is mandatory.

Since after 3e D&D has been moving away from alignment restrictions, even paladins don't need to be any specific alignment in 5e. If they are not going to do anything good with them in the game they are not needed. Better to have a system similar to PoE.