Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

[Infinitron]

Groggy? Hell, we don't even know if it's going to be an RPG yet.

 

[Zetor]

If someone decides to streamline my precious Sparq Beam, Blaster and Ion Rifle into a single weapon, I'll be mildly nonplussed... wait a second.

 

[Infinitron]

How System Shock Lured Warren Spector Back to Making Games

WARREN SPECTOR ALWAYS knew he’d get back to making games. His return was just a little earlier than he had planned.

After the release of Spector’s last game, Disney’s Epic Mickey 2, and the subsequent shuttering of Spector’s Disney-owned studio Junction Point, the designer left games for academia, leading a game development program at the University of Texas.

Two and a half years into a three-year commitment, though, Spector cut class. An old friend had made a job offer Spector couldn’t refuse. “Paul Neurath came along and said, ‘would you like to make a System Shock game?'” Spector says. “And it took me about two seconds to say yes—unfortunately for the university.”

System Shock, of course, was the groundbreaking 1994 first-person game that Spector produced. Blending action and role-playing with an emphasis on letting players solve problems in different, emergent ways, it was a smash hit that inspired later games like Spector’s Deus Ex and theBioShock series. Last year, Neurath’s new studio Otherside Entertainment announced plans to produce System Shock 3, and—as we know now—asked Spector to join him in reviving the series they had originated together decades ago.

“When you wave System Shock—one of the most satisfying game development experiences of my life—and offer the opportunity to introduce it to a 21st-century audience and take advantage of everything that I and we have learned in that time, I could not say no,” Spector says. “I think I disappointed a lot of people at the University of Texas, but I had to do this.”

Neurath and Spector first collaborated on Ultima Underworld, another early first-person RPG that was highly influential on subsequent PC game development. A year ago, Otherside launched a Kickstarter for Underworld Ascendant, a sequel to the 1992 classic in everything but (half a) name.

A Kickstarter for System Shock 3 may be in the offing as well, although Neurath says at this early stage Otherside is only “looking at” the possibility of crowdfunding.

Although System Shock has been dormant for quite a long time, its DNA continued on; Irrational Games had great success years later with BioShock, a spiritual successor to the series (creator Ken Levine actually worked as a designer on System Shock 2).

The success of BioShock, Neurath says, “has been keeping the System Shock name alive, and keeping people interested. When we were making games back then, we never would have conceived that anyone would still be aware of the games today. Games in that era were more like cotton candy; you digest it and move on to the next one. There was no thought that these things would have life beyond a few years.”

“Ken’s done an amazing job with his version,” says Spector, “but I think you’ll see us doing very different things… I think he went in a different direction than [System Shock studio] Looking Glass would have, had that series continued.”

What sort of very different things? “We’re too early in the process. We’re figuring it out on our own,” Neurath says.

Spector, though, has a slightly different take. “I want to talk about it,” he says, “but [Neurath] won’t let me.”

For Spector, heading to Otherside also offers a chance to get back into the good graces of the fans of games like Deus Ex, after a prolonged period of time working with Mickey Mouse.

“I got more and more heartfelt fan mail about Epic Mickeygames than anything I’ve ever worked on, by far,” Spector says. “But core gamers hated me… [they] thought I was a sellout. ‘You made a Mickey Mouse game!’ They never gave the game a chance, to show that it was expressing the exact same things that System Shock and Deus Ex were expressing, the underlying philosophy.”

Spector’s excited, he says, about creating a game that allows players to solve problems in creative ways in the era of Twitch streaming and Let’s Play videos. “Back then, it was hard to communicate that you could play through the games differently,” he says. “Now you can actually have people show off their unique playthroughs.”

As opposed to, I say, a linear first-person shooter experience that plays the same every time.

“If I ever make a game like that,” Spector says, “shoot me.”

 

[mindx2]

I really REALLY want to believe in this and hope for the best but then I read these things and... well...

“When you wave System Shock—one of the most satisfying game development experiences of my life—and offer the opportunity to introduce it to a 21st-century audience and take advantage of everything that I and we have learned in that time, I could not say no,” Spector says.

“I got more and more heartfelt fan mail about Epic Mickeygames than anything I’ve ever worked on, by far,” Spector says. “But core gamers hated me… [they] thought I was a sellout. ‘You made a Mickey Mouse game!’ They never gave the game a chance, to show that it was expressing the exact same things that System Shock and Deus Ex were expressing, the underlying philosophy.”

 

[Perkel]

Epic Mickey is the new System Shock we always wanted.

 

[Athelas]

I really REALLY want to believe in this and hope for the best but then I read these things and... well...

“I got more and more heartfelt fan mail about Epic Mickeygames than anything I’ve ever worked on, by far,” Spector says. “But core gamers hated me… [they] thought I was a sellout. ‘You made a Mickey Mouse game!’ They never gave the game a chance, to show that it was expressing the exact same things that System Shock and Deus Ex were expressing, the underlying philosophy.”

Funnily enough, that is actually true:

The game's key feature is the magic paint brush, which Mickey wields, that has the ability to draw or erase objects using paint and paint thinner. For example, obstacles can be erased from physical existence using the thinner and then restored using the paint, or enemies can be befriended by revitalizing them with the paint or destroyed completely using the thinner. Mickey is also able to materialize objects from sketches, which have various effects. Two of the three sketches, the watch and the television, slow down time and distract enemies, respectively.[4] Both fluids have limited reserves, adding a strategic element to gameplay: players must compromise between making various tasks harder or easier to accomplish.

There you have it: environmental manipulation, supports pacifist playstyles and you can use power-ups to make tasks easier. All of these are core aspects of Deus Ex.

I've never actually played Epic Mickey, so I can't comment on how well he achieved those goals. I'm guessing the answer is a resounding 'no'.

 

[mindx2]

[insert Mickey Mouse hat on SHODAN]

 

[agris]

This won't be the System Shock we want, it'll be the System Shock we deserve.

 

[Perkel]

I really REALLY want to believe in this and hope for the best but then I read these things and... well...

apperently epic mickey in early stages of production was completely different game. It was kind of mish mash between steampunk and gothic with disney characters grounded in reality and it wasn't just platformer either.

Then Disney found out and they said no for that and made normal game. Here is some concept art:

[/quote]

 

[Infinitron]

The commercially failed Epic Mickey 2 is available on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/245300/

Adding it to my wishlist for an examination at some point.

 

[felipepepe]

The success of BioShock, Neurath says, “has been keeping the System Shock name alive, and keeping people interested. When we were making games back then, we never would have conceived that anyone would still be aware of the games today. Games in that era were more like cotton candy; you digest it and move on to the next one. There was no thought that these things would have life beyond a few years.”

WUT? If anything, today's way worse in that regard, so I have no idea of what he's talking about.

 

[Perkel]

The success of BioShock, Neurath says, “has been keeping the System Shock name alive, and keeping people interested. When we were making games back then, we never would have conceived that anyone would still be aware of the games today. Games in that era were more like cotton candy; you digest it and move on to the next one. There was no thought that these things would have life beyond a few years.”

WUT? If anything, today's way worse in that regard, so I have no idea of what he's talking about.

How can you say that when back then you had literally 5 people in room saying something is good with 5 other people in europe saying same thing. Most of boards didn't exist and people got their news from magazines. Hell people actually wrote to magazines about games they like because they couldn't find anyone else playing games.
He isn't wrong.

Casual market is same as ever chasing every new fad.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm basing myself precisely on magazines. Every month the CGW had a ranking of the reader's Top 100 games, and many year-old games keep popping up.

Heck, the fact that they did such poll every month already shows a greater value for the past than what we have today.

 

[Infinitron]

I think he's talking more about the mentality of the game developers than the mentality of the players. Obviously, cult fandoms did form in those days.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://www.facebook.com/OtherSideEntertainment/posts/1720799238132245

Andrey Dineev Sorry to burst your bubble, but why the hype? Did you forget his tour of duty AFTER UU and SS1? It's not like it was full of glory and success.

Warren Spector becomes Director of Ion Storm studio - the studio releases sequels to Thief and Deus Ex, which are incredibly inferior to their predecessors, especially Deus Ex. HOW it was possible to make such a poor sequel to one of the best and successful games of all time? Studio closes.

Warren Spector becomes Director of Junction Point Disney whatever. Studio releases two games nobody heard of or cares about and closes.

Warren Spector joins Otherside Entertainment and directs SS3 project... Again, sorry for negative thinking, but I'm really worried about SS3 now.

(Heh, he's working at 1C Company.)

OtherSide Entertainment You shouldn't be. Warren has had more success than most-and no one--not even Looking Glass--has a 100% record. We all have failures. Sometimes why something doesn't work out has nothing to do with talent or intention. But, I would argue that Epic Disney is very much a Origin/Looking Glass type game. It has all the touch pionts of his earlier work, and frankly is very underrated. Also it outsold every other title he ever worked on, so nobody knowing or caring is far from the truth.

 

[Infinitron]

Finally got an official response to the question of whether this is going to be an RPG...sort of: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=960.msg17244#msg17244

We were thinking a mobile quick time event MOBA F2P for Shock 3.

Writing that hurt my soul.

The reality is we don't know yet. I like what we are doing in Underworld and can see many of the lessons learned here applying to Shock.

BTW it's Chris replying to people on Facebook too.

 

[Cassar]

"https://www.facebook.com/OtherSideEntertainment/posts/1720799238132245

Andrey Dineev Sorry to burst your bubble, but why the hype? Did you forget his tour of duty AFTER UU and SS1? It's not like it was full of glory and success.

Warren Spector becomes Director of Ion Storm studio - the studio releases sequels to Thief and Deus Ex, which are incredibly inferior to their predecessors, especially Deus Ex. HOW it was possible to make such a poor sequel to one of the best and successful games of all time? Studio closes."

Well, when he made Deus Ex it was a no interference project, no focus groups and most important, it was a PC game, with mouse and keyboard design and features. After that it was larger budget, console pleasing, gamepad designed games that tried to atract new, couch loving gamers. These guys i mean:

http://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-clues-hints/


Of course he fucked it up. He said an interesting thing in a recent interview for Deus Ex 15 year anniversary:

"It was the game i was gonna make somehow, someway, sometime and nobody was damn well gonna stop me. I didn't care if it sold three copies."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEz2rOlHzK8&feature=youtu.be&t=1m56s


I think this is the reason great games are made.

We'll have to see if the misterious entities that are backing them require modern console games or they can do their own stuff like in the old days and don't try to chase ACreed audiences. At least, Spector still promotes gameplay instead of cutscene simulators:

http://powerupgaming.co.uk/2015/10/...n-fail-to-make-the-most-of-video-game-medium/
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/WarrenSp...May_Not_Make_Games_But_They_Do_Make_Magic.php

 

[Perkel]

Finally got an official response to the question of whether this is going to be an RPG...sort of: https://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=960.msg17244#msg17244

We were thinking a mobile quick time event MOBA F2P for Shock 3.

Writing that hurt my soul.

The reality is we don't know yet. I like what we are doing in Underworld and can see many of the lessons learned here applying to Shock.

BTW it's Chris replying to people on Facebook too.

+2 to streetwise

 

[vonAchdorf]

I'm basing myself precisely on magazines. Every month the CGW had a ranking of the reader's Top 100 games, and many year-old games keep popping up.

Heck, the fact that they did such poll every month already shows a greater value for the past than what we have today.

Yes, they also had monthly genre top lists (of their own ratings) and naturally many spots were older games.

Did people really complain about him "selling" out because remade a Mickey game, or rather that the game(s) weren't that good, even though they had an interesting premise and he himself thought that they were great.

 

[Lhynn]

why is this thread on GRPGD?

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

why is this thread on GRPGD?

Because we don't know if System Shock 3 is going to be an RPG or not. It might just be.

 

[Roguey]

why is this thread on GRPGD?

The 2nd Shock has character customization.

 

[Aenra]

We were thinking a mobile quick time event MOBA F2P for Shock 3.

Writing that hurt my soul.

The reality is we don't know yet. I like what we are doing in Underworld and can see many of the lessons learned here applying to Shock.

No no no no no no.. no. That was just trolling. Right?

edit: Assuming one could look past the obvious..a MOBA? In nowadays? Had they not even seen how hard it is? How multi-million products fail, how literally only one succeeded at competing with DOTA? Decision making my ass.. who the fuck is making those calls? Again, assuming one could even forgive the decline.. jeesus.. not good..

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Sarcasm.

 

[Infinitron]

Don't believe his lies Aenra, it's totally going to be a MOBA.