Ten times zero is still zero.
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Fallout Tale of Two Wastelands, a proper look at Fallout 3 writings and designs
- Thread starter laclongquan
- Start date
Fallout: New Vegas is easily a candidate for best Western RPG ever made.
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The writing, maybe, because it is slightly ahead of the usual Bethesda drivel. The game is held back massively by its engine however. Everything else is blithe Codex nostalgia.
Sykar
Arcane
0+10=10. You fail.
Massively? It does most things right. Properly modded the most egregious stuff can be smoothed out considerably. FO3 can be outfitted with a 100 mods and it still fixes at most some of the graphics and gunplay to a degree. That is it. The godawful writing, dialogue system, etc. all remains. Maybe there are mods that adress the batshit insane easy maximization of most/all attributes/skills but I am fairly certain that most Failderp 3 dumbfucks enjoy their 10 all atributes 100 all skills boring Gary Stu running after his daddy LARPING their ass off with asanine BS.
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And that is the issue. Play NV without any mods and tell me it holds up.
Butter
Arcane
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The worst thing about unmodded NV is it crashes a lot and is too easy. All the positive things, like writing, quest design, freedom of character building, weapon variety, are still present. It's like a lot of other great western RPGs in that regard. You put up with some jank and some bullshit because of the great elements. It just has the added bonus that you're able to make it even better with mods.
Sykar
Arcane
Still a top notch RPG. Just not that good of a game when it comes to combat. /shrug
I also do not see how that changes anything. FO 3 even with 100 mods still stinks to high heavens. FO NV is still a good RPG experience with or without mods.
wishbonetail
Learned
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The only real downside to New Vegas i can think of is its godforsaking quest compass. Just remember the Find Cachino quest with an arrow pointing to the hotel just around the corner without not even a hint why you should go there. How much more it could have been with exploration of, lets say, Bloodlines.
Ol' Willy
Arcane
I played NV from a shady CD, no patches, no DLCs, wasn't crashing at all
laclongquan
Arcane
I made no argument about your point, koyota, I just make one about the point of needing some identity, as presented on the quote image.
And that point is very much consistent with a PA theme. People need some cultural base to keep themselves up, separate from barbarians/tribals.
It is why Caesar build Legion on Roman template, despite themselves more like Mongols than anything. Because the Khans themselves hoard the Khanate/Mongol empire template already, and they ruint that brand in NCR regions.
It is why the NCR founders build themselves up as New Republic on the model of America. Because no one use that template yet, and using it has legitimacy. And why they didnt build it up as medieval and feudal states, because that has no legitimacy.
It's why New Caananites, Reno mafia culture, and House giving tribals their identies, and even the Kings.
It make perfect sense in Post Apocalyptic theme among novels and games.
Compared to that, ex-military build themselves up as Knights of Old Republic, to Hold Fast to World Destruction Weapons, is not a bad idea, by itself.
And that point is very much consistent with a PA theme. People need some cultural base to keep themselves up, separate from barbarians/tribals.
It is why Caesar build Legion on Roman template, despite themselves more like Mongols than anything. Because the Khans themselves hoard the Khanate/Mongol empire template already, and they ruint that brand in NCR regions.
It is why the NCR founders build themselves up as New Republic on the model of America. Because no one use that template yet, and using it has legitimacy. And why they didnt build it up as medieval and feudal states, because that has no legitimacy.
It's why New Caananites, Reno mafia culture, and House giving tribals their identies, and even the Kings.
It make perfect sense in Post Apocalyptic theme among novels and games.
Compared to that, ex-military build themselves up as Knights of Old Republic, to Hold Fast to World Destruction Weapons, is not a bad idea, by itself.
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Who said anything about crashing? Although that is of course an issue with Gamebryo crap as well.
laclongquan
Arcane
Bitch please, you are messing with wrong audience here. A lot of us, did play FNV with no mods back in the day. I did play much later, but that doesnt mean my first run is littered with a bunch of mods either.
Vanilla FNV is awesome in design, writing, and pacing aspects. you can larp a courier, or a cowboy, or ncr military man, or legion raping and killing all over.
The only thing lacking in vanilla is tactical combat difficulty. Which is understandable considering FNV's aimed audience are storyfaqs and larpers, which are not very good at tactical combat at anything higher than a normal-normal diff.
rusty_shackleford
Unwanted
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going to write a paper on the correlation between enjoying FNV and being a transsexual
Sykar
Arcane
rusty_shackleford
Unwanted
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deep insights over at reddit as to why FNV is so great
Sykar
Arcane
And? I thought you wanted to write a paper, not quoting dumbfucks which is easy enough to do.
rusty_shackleford
Unwanted
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If you'd like to discuss your process of mutilating your genitals in private, I won't use your real name in my paper
Sykar
Arcane
What does that have anything to do with you writing a paper?
rusty_shackleford
Unwanted
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I have to explore the trans communities to write my paper ofc, which means hanging out on the codex and reluctantly reading reddit.
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Every time I see the title of this thread I cringe because of its false premise that Tale of Two Wastelands (a gameplay-centric mod that does nothing more than insert Fallout 3 into New Vegas with some other minor gameplay additions) could somehow elevate the rock bottom writing/design of Fallout 3.
laclongquan
Arcane
deep insights over at reddit as to why FNV is so great
I cant see shit about your posted image so I dont know what's your opinion.
As for the question, F3/FNV provided the chance of modding nekkid male bodies (with dicks) for the gays. That open the gate for the trannies.
I mean, the LGBTBBQ groups among F3/FNV modding communities are mostly pure gay, and gay-trannie anyway. I dont see much presence of lesbian, and lezzie-trannie.
You can point me to the correct groups or person, of course. But the rainbow crowd I spoke (and thus offended) sound like gays.
Onto FNV, two most important companions are gay (Arcade) and lesbians (Veronica and Christine). if you, from start, addperk confirmed bachelor and or Cherche La Femme, you can find more of them among lesser NPC as well. The ratio (and thus, presence) of gays and lesbians in FNV are much more than other game, I think. And they are very well written. No wonder the LGBTBBQ crowd larp it up~
+++ More importantly, the LGBT cause is not pushed to your face. You want the lesbians, you gotta get out of early area, into middle stage to have her, come what may. You want the fragile-heart gay, you gotta push beyond even that. This in an important and good point.
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laclongquan
Arcane
Not fixing so much as looking at it from different point of view.
I mean it.
I dont think others ever point out the potential for James' romantic partners like I did.
Although people did point out (though I didnt know about them at the time) that players of TTW can enjoy a very much different outlook on Ulysses (which is a raving patient who is on his last leg, that which lone wanderer humor him despite his trying to kill, because we need him to guard the entrance between Divide and Mojave). That mean my POV and my impression is shared among others.
And PLO's lobotomite procedure make a great joke. This lone wanderer from V101 get brainy operations from swamp to desert, from most primitive condition (PLO) to highest (OWB and Zeta)
It's a matter of from where you look and speak.
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The Brazilian Slaughter
Arcane
F76 retconning the brotherhood of steel into GOOD EX-US military (In contrast to the BAD ex-us military Enclave) medieval age Larpers, can go re-retcon itself please.
But that's not a retcon, that's what the Brotherhood of Steel is. The real dodgy retcon thing here is the whole "convincing a unit on the other side of the country to join us" thing. That's stupid.
I think this dialogue makes sense in the context of the Brotherhood not being the established organization it was in FO1, but a group forming itself and finding a new identity. Its pretty much LARPing until everyone gets used to it, then it becomes Tradition
It makes sense they would thrown off the old hierarchy, the old terms, because the Brotherhood wants to get out of the US Army hierarchy. Maxson doesn't want any of his subordinates to get silly ideas like creating a new american govt, because Maxson gave up on the old US of A. It would be like asking some german army offficer to recreate the Third Reich.
Like I said, I don't think it is.
I think both "Knights of the Wasteland" and "Xenophobic Technology Hoarders" are simplifications of a tridimensional, complex faction like the Brotherhood of Steel.
The Brotherhood of Steel was at first a bunch of US Soldiers going full Jefferson Davis. Later, they became heavily-armed survivalists seeking somewhere they can survive the nuclear war. Then, they became an order dedicated to the preservation of knowledge in the new dark age, one which is also dedicated to protecting humanity from itself and fighting technological threats. They're not nice, they're not super-friendly, but ultimately, their goal is to help the human species. They're not xenophobic because they hate outsiders (they're not Vault City), they just want to be left alone doing their own thing. Of course the Brotherhood is often self-serving, but there's not much wrong with that, they're just taking care of their own.
The Brotherhood in the classic games did a lot of good stuff for people. They protected everyone from the Remnants of the Master's Army running roughshod, and later introduced technology into New California with little disruption or chaos.
People mistake "Medieval Knight" for "Holy Warrior". Those are different things. A knight was a noble empowered by his blood, the blessings of the clergy and his oaths of fealty to a liege, to fight and protect the peasants and clergy. Peasants till and sow, Clergy prays, Burgers trade, Knights fight. Like any person, average knight ran the entire gamut from super-nice defender of people, to exploitative dick.
I think that ultimately, the Brotherhood is a moral faction. Its just that after Rhombus, the Brotherhood doesn't have much reason to exist. The Brotherhood managed to introduce technology back into New California. That's it, they won, cue credits. And now they have no idea what to do. They could join the NCR, but the Brotherhood hates politics and like being their own thing. They can't create a state because, again, they don't do politics and have no interest in conquest or lording over others, also NCR is already a thing in the West. They can take technology from the "unworthy" outsiders, but they just gave it, so that doesn't fulfill any true practical interest. They can just keep finding tech, preserving tech and making more tech, but that's what they always did. It's an identity crisis and they have no idea what to do.
Ironically, I think Fallout Tactics is one game which actually did the Brotherhood a lot of justice. True, its not THE mainline Brotherhood, but it asks some very interesting questions as to how the Brotherhood of Steel would do if it dropped the "Xenophobic" part. At first they seem like total go-getters, going around recruiting people, killing bad dudes and kicking ass. Then as you play, you start realizing the price of their "protection." They pretty much empty villages and tribes of their best men and women, they take their goods in exchange for safety, they use forced labour, brutally slaughter entire cities if they think those are full of enemies (like Macomb), perpetrate racial genocides (like with the Beast Lords), and slowly but surely turn into a fascistic organization. Sure, they're far better than raiders and such thugs, but they are not 100% good-guys.
Its funny, FOT did the same thing FO3 did, except FOT did it way better.
I think the idea here is to be able to look at Fallout 3 without being distracted by all the jank and crap mechanics it has.
laclongquan
Arcane
Fallout Tactic's BOS can do it because they just outgun the initial faction, raiders and ghouls. When they run into Super Mutants they got pressed hard by HP sponge mad melee fighters. When they meet Robot they got outperformed by guns (energy weapons) and HP sponge armors that they force to recruit some Super Mutant for heavy weapon specialist fighting up close combat.
Think of FTBOS as F3BOS during the scourging the Pitt campaign~ When Lyons meet Vault 87 Super Mutant they get stopped hard~ If you mod the Enclave armor as having 40+ DT or DR to emulate FT robots, things get very interesting indeed~ You just dont have enough ammo to shoot from afar, and need to get upclose, stick barrels onto their face and pray for crits. pulse weapons are practically rare goods.
Think of FTBOS as F3BOS during the scourging the Pitt campaign~ When Lyons meet Vault 87 Super Mutant they get stopped hard~ If you mod the Enclave armor as having 40+ DT or DR to emulate FT robots, things get very interesting indeed~ You just dont have enough ammo to shoot from afar, and need to get upclose, stick barrels onto their face and pray for crits. pulse weapons are practically rare goods.
Ol' Willy
Arcane
You should definitely play Sonora once it's translated; it has very interesting take on BoS
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