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Fallout Tale of Two Wastelands, a proper look at Fallout 3 writings and designs

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
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they need more FEV to create more supermutants? this seems logical to me
Who tells them to create new muties? Who tells them to look for more green stuff? Who tells them where to look?

Also, yet another idiocy. In Fallout 1, FEV laboratories were tucked far away from prying eyes in the deserts - The Glow or Mariposa, both in the middle of the desert in the previously restricted zones. In Fagout 3, they look for a FEV in the middle of fucking American Capital city. It's like looking for UFO experiments in the Times Square.
 
Unwanted
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Messages
50,711
Codex Year of the Donut
they need more FEV to create more supermutants? this seems logical to me
Who tells them to create new muties? Who tells them to look for more green stuff? Who tells them where to look?

Also, yet another idiocy. In Fallout 1, FEV laboratories were tucked far away from prying eyes in the deserts - The Glow or Mariposa, both in the middle of the desert in the previously restricted zones. In Fagout 3, they look for a FEV in the middle of fucking American Capital city.
what makes you think they need to be told this?
If they're smart enough to verbally communicate, they're smart enough to figure out they need to reproduce. Take your bias goggles off.
 

Yosharian

Magister
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Hammerfell
FO3 is fine as a 'Babby's First Fallout Game'. For anyone who is actually serious about this series, i.e. has played FO1+2 & FONV, it's a pretty bad game.
 

Ol' Willy

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If they're smart enough to verbally communicate, they're smart enough to figure out they need to reproduce. Take your bias goggles off.
Have you found green stuff? I haven't found any. Ever. Maybe it's a lie. Maybe we're wasting our time. We could be out killing...

A lie? A lie from whom?
 

Yosharian

Magister
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Hammerfell
Emil Pagliarulo
"Keep it simple, stupid."

That's Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 for you. This man is the greatest threat to the Fallout universe.

Him and his pals Todd and Pete.

Bethesda is one of the studios that makes a good case why IPs that have not been continued by their original developers or studios for some reason, should not be picked up by a different studio.
Pete Hines is by far the worst IMO
 
Unwanted
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Codex Year of the Donut
If they're smart enough to verbally communicate, they're smart enough to figure out they need to reproduce. Take your bias goggles off.
Have you found green stuff? I haven't found any. Ever. Maybe it's a lie. Maybe we're wasting our time. We could be out killing...

A lie? A lie from whom?
from other super mutants, they're communicating with each other -- a rumor.
jesus fucking christ ESLs
 

Ol' Willy

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from other super mutants, they're communicating with each other -- a rumor.
jesus fucking christ ESLs
And again, who starts the rumors that they can get more FEV in Washington? Who told them that they can procreate with FEV? Why even do they need to procreate? More people - less food
 
Unwanted
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Codex Year of the Donut
from other super mutants, they're communicating with each other -- a rumor.
jesus fucking christ ESLs
And again, who starts the rumors that they can get more FEV in Washington? Who told them that they can procreate with FEV? Why even do they need to procreate? More people - less food
easy: one of them found some and they communicated it with the others.
Why do you keep on assuming they cannot communicate with each other?
Why even do they need to procreate? More people - less food
to replace those that are killed
This is boring. We should be collecting more humans. We need more of us! The bucketheads have killed too many...

You're treating them like wild beasts rather than an unintelligent species capable of communicating (relatively) complex ideas.
 

Ol' Willy

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You're treating them like wild beasts rather than an unintelligent species capable of communicating (relatively) complex ideas.
Are you running "Supermutant Lives Matter" troll on me?
 

laclongquan

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I was not, am not, and probbably will not defend Bethesda writers. morrowind show their pompousness and this Fallout 3 show their incompleteness.

I am just saying, there's lot of opportunities, lots of chances, and they either ignored or didnt know how to build up from them.

Like I said, weapons and supplies are most probbable reason for muties to root around the ruins of Capitol. FEV? I dont think so.

Even if the devs keep harping V87 as the origin of Capital SM, there's no mechanism for them to make more. There's just no VAT like Fallout 1/2 to make more. And Vault 87 was abandoned, from the look of it. The ones left behind use it as place to sleep and eat. No machine can be said to allow more muties there. Unlike Fallout 1/2 simple method of throwing people into the vats of FEV goo.
++++ Also one beating dead horse fact: V87 people are not that numerous. As of last recognizable tally in terminal entries, there are 90+ known death with a super majority from experiment. Let's say there's 5 times that number so theirs are same as v112, highest in Capital vaults. It's still just freaking 450. Assuming total conversion by V87's FEV stock... An army of SM, sure, but nowhere near the unstoppable tides that press the brotherhood for years. And if they can make more, how?

You see? NOT fully developed. Such as a question like above. And answers are simple even by amateur coding and writing standards. Make (or change back) a few operational chambers. Make a computer (or write a few dialog line for the lab central computer) that can be commanded by voice. VOILA! Gamers can be expected to think that the SM will voice command the computer to make more SM somehow.
 
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laclongquan

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Tranquility Lane main quest

Some people like to praise this as example of great writing in Fallout 3. Moral karma and all the hogwash.

Hogwash alright. Because it's the typical force-into-your-throat-moral story type. Either you do the main quest in a series of near-atrocity which ofcourse induce karma penalty.

Or you do metagame and shortcircuit the whole thing by summon the failsafe scenario. And while the game does provide details as to HOW to summon it, it omit the actual detail, correct sequence, by not mention anywhere (written down). If you hear NPC humming and dont have the actual, real life, music ear to replicate the tonals in the abandoned house... Yeah, you are shit out of luck. Or you can read online walkthrough for that correct sequence in written down form.

To summarise, it's like you need to know actual morse code to decipher a game clue.

Do you know how to fix this force-in-your-throat? Have an NPC provide actual written down data. Like your Dad the Dog for example. He's just sitting there the whole damn quest.

NOTE: I dont object to perform near-atrocity dramatic moves IF it has correct moralistic ingame consequence and logic. Say, if a tyrannical digital lifeform force me to do so for my (and Dad's) eventual escape, I probabbly can be forced... PROVIDED that I can retalitate after that by burning the whole V112 down, or at least "rescue" the survivors (by killing them). But NO, I can not fight back unless doing the failsafe thing. It's the only tool for me. So why would I have to delay the inevitable?
 
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laclongquan

Arcane
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Who is your Dad, Liam Neeson, aka James?

Your Dad and his team of great scientists are like, sprung, out of nowhere. NOTHING ever mention where they were from before they are at Project Purity, the Jefferson memorial, and associated with Brotherhood of Steel.

This is important because they are, and should be, a group of influential people. The ones who research how to transform irradiated water into drinkable in large quantity. An nothing else ever known before their work.

Vault? nothing ever said. BOS? While logical, but no, nothing ever support that. Based on Dr Li's fallout 4 address at Commonwealth, we can do a reverse-guess and guess they were from there. BUT, this is important, no concrete data directly support that either.

EDIT: one interesting thing is the Dr Li's science team had a few coming over from Pinkerton's science team, who before founding Rivet City came from Naval Research institute. Its root said to come from prewar institute, but you can take that however you like because there's no other datum dispute that claim. Also nothing else is said about NRI.

2nd Edit: after nearly a year continuously playing capital wasteland and mojave, I tentatively come to an educated guess: James and project purity people, including Dr Li, is from Commonwealth. The central core to this guess is Dr Li and her seemingly connections to Commonwealth. The escaped android? he hid in Rivet City where Dr Li hold most important influence. The doctor who chased after him? Also visit Rivet City to ask for their help in locating that android. This alone should showcase how much street cred Dr Li has with Commonwealth people: not a stranger, more like a known character. The android become chief of security here and the doctor was allowed to visit science lab to make a pest of himself, something only acquaintances are permitted. Otherwise Li has the muscles to throw unwanted visitors off her turf at the very least.
 
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DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,255
Dude, Doctor Li has less characterization than some secondary characters.
And your dad is only there so Bethesda could use Liam Neeson name on the marketing material without being sued.

Bethesda totally expected you to kill big bad mutties and farm experience points while seeing explosions to the next level like every Bethesdard good boy, they didnt expect you to think about all that stuff. Thinking about stuff isnt something they usually expect, thinking about stuff is way too niche for them to care.
 

The Dutch Ghost

Arbiter
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
594
Fallout 3 is a game full of potential, looking from POV of a tactical player, or storyfags.

I strongly disagree, this project was doomed to fail even before it started. Not just the game, the boring ass design, the lack of imagination, understanding of the themes.

If you compared the design of Fallout 3 with that of Van Buren, you see the creativity regarding world building and ideas pop out of the last.
 

Cpt. Dallas

Learned
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
404
Jeez guyz, there's a whole other dip tank at Ft. Daggerpoint! Infinite muties! Did you even *play* FO:New California??!!!!

:happytrollboy:
 
Self-Ejected

RNGsus

Self-Ejected
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
8,106
Why play F3 after New Vegas, or at all if your introduction was F1? Fallout belongs in the West, its that simple.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
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There is some very questionable design and placement of writings for quests that I want to drag out the entire leads of F3 and ask what the heck were you thinking during that time?

- Killing Super Mutants Behemoths, the top BOSS of the game. There's one will spawn if you take the teddy bear in a location.
- Normally, the only way to trigger this Boss is to do your usual sweep the loot clean, sweep all location, in which case is this unmarked one.
- There's a single clue about this Boss, which is in an unmarked quest, Searching for Cherryl, mentioned in a search party log. You can say this clue is the biggest reward for this quest, the only logical way to know about this BOSS.

Problem is: the damn log is in an unmarked grave somewhere, same as other logs in the similarly unmarked graves elsewhere. No clue point to this unmarked grave unless you sweep the land, dig up ANY grave you find.

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
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Behemoths are completely retarded as an idea. Yeah, Frankie was big, but these bastards are much bigger. How exactly do they come to existence?
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
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Location
Belém do Pará, Império Brasileiro
Behemoths are completely retarded as an idea. Yeah, Frankie was big, but these bastards are much bigger. How exactly do they come to existence?

You know how Super Mutants after the dip grown up in size and muscle mass? West Coast Super Mutants experience that and then stop.

Well, East Coast Super Mutants never stop growing entirely. They don't grown at the same rate they did while super mutating, but they still do a bit. Because East Coast FEV is kind of ass compared to the good stuff the Master had and tweaked.

That said, I think the whole "Behemoths are just older mutants" doesn't make any sense. Because Fawkes is a thing, he is easily two-hundred years old and not the size of a building. Fawkes has a pretty normal size. Maybe Fawkes is the freaky one, but Behemoths being a mutation inside the mutation makes more sense.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Behemoths is a good idea for BOSS type of monster. It's the kind where I dont hesitate to take out my best weapon. The only problem that might be overkill on that one would be MIRV with 8 mininuke shot at once. And even then, if it's active and move about much, it still might get away alive.
+++ And yes, the Behemoth at Takoma Park does get away with -100 HP. I shoot MIRV at it twice just to get rid of HP of most of its retinue. And for fun, of course. 8 mininuke at once is big boom x8. I approve!!!

As for its logic... Boyo, chameleons and lizards can get to the size of Deathclaw, mantis to the size of giant mantis, rat to the size of Keeng Rat, ant to Giant Ant and Giant Fire Ant.... I dont see any problem with Super Mutants grow to the size of Behemoth. And they are rare after all~

Seriously, Behemoths dont have any existential problem.
 
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