Game News Tentative Torment Kickstarter Tiers Announced

[Infinitron]

To be honest, I was hoping that Colin would respond substantively to Harold's criticism of his work in PS:T.

Why is Harold so important that Colin should respond to him? TBH big part of his "criticisms" boil down to I don't like some stuff category without any argumentation. Some parts that do have arguments are very weak, like "cool" voice acting for not so cool character according to Harold. I am not even talking about this Narcissistic self quote.

He isn't. I was still curious, though.

 

[tuluse]

Reposting this brilliant yet unjustly ignored post of mine for maximum butthurt potential:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...use-monte-cooks-numenera-setting.79547/page-6

 

[hiver]

Can you even join the Many, though? I seem to remember trying something like that and couldn't for some reason.

I think you can and then you have to kill all the undead... but im not sure i remember correctly.

There was lots of stuff that was rushed or left on the cutting floor because of many problems in development and funding.

 

[Lancehead]

the last few pages, well done Harold.

I do agree with the sentiment he expressed in his quote, that InXile needs to convince they can do justice to the name Torment. Weird that McComb interpreted it as already dismissing TTN.

 

[Harold]

Subjective. Irrelevant. Maybe the intention was that you want to join the undead.

Can you even join the Many, though? I seem to remember trying something like that and couldn't for some reason.

Yes, you can join the Many, find out for them that the Silent King is truly silent. In exchange for the information they unlock some past memory. Maybe that was the intent is an apologist argument. I can just as easily say mccomb and the rest responsible for that area were lazy so they mostly made it a combat slog and it would be as equally retarded as yours.

What if my character doesn't want to fight? ((((
VD used to Laugh Out Loud at this "argument". Now it's a good one, though.

You don't get Morte back my fighting you moron. Of all the ways the information Ravel holds the key to your mortality could have been presented to the player, do you honestly think that having to do a chore for an unkillable npc so he would tell you and give you Morte, who you may or may not care about, is the best design decision? Isn't it kinda schizophrenic to assume that the player will care about Morte, and then later provide opportunities to sell him into slavery, put him back into the pillar?

The end areas have been rushed. Even god almighty Avellone admitted, so it must be true.

I know this, but neither you or I know any specifics so your point is moot. The Fortress of Regrets was an ending area also, and it didn't felel rushed, provided plenty of opportunities for roleplay. Also, your assumption that I'm doing all this to defend Avellone is utterly retarded.

Waaah waaah, why doesn't everybody recognize my brilliant humor and trolling. (((

I'm not trolling dipshit, I'm just tired of morons voicing their crap opinions without even bothering to see the context of posts, or read through the previous page(s) of the threads they're dumping their shit in.

 

[EG]

This is now a sarcastic twit (Harold) verses butthurt individuals (Hiver, FeelTheRads) thread, neh?

Eh.

Colin didn't appear to be responding to Harold, but rather some idea that we were calling his work shit. Perhaps it was the earlier conversation on just how much a preorder was worth, or whether we should doubt inXile, or perhaps even a general reaction against the Internet at large . . . There's a great many was to take the previous 9 pages as a slight against you, if you want to.

 

[hiver]

Oh gee, more morons with their "accuse others of butthurt!!!=profit!!!" logic.
Harold is sarcastic now is eh? Blimey, a regular hero of the codex. He should get a fucking medal.
Oh, he didnt mean it, eh?
Its all a misunderstanding now, eh?

I guess we should all start weeping salty tears for the fuck.


who knows, maybe Colin also noticed this in that previous thread:

" 1. The fact that it's going to be called Torment because thematic bla bla is bullshit. Be honest Fargo, you're calling it that because you were sly enough to get the rights for that name and it has great recognition. Don't tell me you're gonna make a plethora of games exploring numerous facets of the idea of torment in different ways because I will never believe you. You're not going to reinvent the greek tragedy in a PC game medium and, if you try, it will certainly end up being silly after a second game. Then again, The Walking Dead is considered by many to have the best story evah, so what do I knoiw?

2. What did Colin McComb actually design/write on PST? Granted, my memory is quite fuzzy on this, but isn't he the guy largely responsible for Curst, i.e. - the worst written & designed area in the whole game? "

 

[FeelTheRads]

Also, your assumption that I'm doing all this to defend Avellone is utterly retarded.

You're not? Really? Because some bad things in some areas designed by McComb means McComb is not good enough. What about Avellone's work then? Is it all perfect? Or for some reason he can be excused? Because, hey New Reno. Had absolutely no place in the setting. Means Avellone doesn't know what he's doing with the setting given, so he shouldn't touch any design work ever.

 

[EG]

hiver, every keystroke you make is tear-stained at this point.

Go have a smoke or something. o_O

It's upsetting the natives.

 

[Zeriel]

I liked Curst.

Probably goes back to that whole Planescape thing again--Curst is a great example of an area in the game that actually demonstrates what Planescape means in practice, not just theory.

 

[Jaesun]

Might need some lube for all this circle jerking.

 

[EG]

Might need some lube for all this circle jerking.

Might be necessary to pilfer your stash.

 

[Harold]

You're not? Really? Because some bad things in some areas designed by McComb means McComb is not good enough. What about Avellone's work then? Is it all perfect? Or for some reason he can be excused? Because, hey New Reno. Had absolutely no place in the setting. Means Avellone doesn't know what he's doing with the setting given, so he shouldn't touch any design work ever.

McComb did some good things and some bad things on PST. For me, the bad outweigh the good, whereas, as far as PST is concerned, MCA's good stuff outweighs the bad stuff. This doesn't mean I think McComb intended to sabotage MCA during PST development, nor does it mean I think he genuinely wanted to do a shitty job or that he is generally completely incapable. It does however mean that I have very little to go on when it comes to believing that inXile, with McComb as creative lead, can pull off a game on the level of PST. (And yes I stand by my points that Curst was the worst part of PST, that the whole thematic thing is just marketing-talk from Fargo, and that writing some novels doesn't give me any insight into anyone's capabilities as a rpg designer, even if those novels were fantasy -this paranthesis more in reply to hiver) Which is why I think inXile and McComb will need to show examples of dialogue/quest design during their kickstarter camapign in order to convince me and other doubters. It would also be nice if they (and here I'm including mca) could share some insight regarding the troubles of pst design (the rushed areas that we don't know much behind-the-scenes stuff about) so that we know what areas of the game ended up weak because they didn't have enough time for them or whatever or what were actually weak design decisions. This helps so that eventual backers can bring them up so these weak decisions are not repeated in Tides. This of course, is all up to them. I reiterate that I wasn't and am not making any demands of McComb, if I was I would've tagged him myself (but then again, maybe I'm Infinitron's alt and this is all a big jewish conspiracy). I do think though that the success of their campaign will hinge on the amount of information they are willing to give with regards to their approach to and capability with narrative design.

 

[skuphundaku]

the last few pages, well done Harold.

I do agree with the sentiment he expressed in his quote, that InXile needs to convince they can do justice to the name Torment. Weird that McComb interpreted it as already dismissing TTN.

Some of the people ITT seem to be functioning under the delusion that MCA single-handedly created PS:T and that all the team that inXile put together for the new Torment are just a bunch of dilettantes and usurpers that will accomplish nothing without MCA, which is a ridiculous notion, to say the least. Personally, even if MCA isn't going to be involved at all in the end, I think that the inXile Torment team has ample amounts of talent to pull it off, but, hey, don't stop your bitching on account of what I'm saying.

 

[Harold]

I liked Curst.

Probably goes back to that whole Planescape thing again--Curst is a great example of an area in the game that actually demonstrates what Planescape means in practice, not just theory.

Ok, I'm genuinely curious about this. How does it prove that in practice? By having you do a set of six mostly-linear quests that showcase a form of betrayal? Why isn't TNO the one being held for a fool, double-crossed and backstabbed at every turn? Why do these residents, who are supposedly all into the whole betrayal thing, tell you, when you ask them 'Dude, we're all totally a big bunch of betrayers, you better watch your back'? How does that make any sense?

 

[Roguey]

I know this, but neither you or I know any specifics so your point is moot. The Fortress of Regrets was an ending area also, and it didn't felel rushed, provided plenty of opportunities for roleplay

The first part of the fortress, with all the shadows and the cannons, was really awful. The going doesn't get good until you get to the talky parts.

 

[hiver]

every keystroke you make is tear-stained at this point.
Go have a smoke or something.
It's upsetting the natives.

you aint going to tell me shit, understand, newfag?
youre cheap, shallow and stupid. you have nothing to add to anything except trying to seem cool any pathetic way you can.
you play all of it safe because youre a fucking coward.
intellectually and emotionally.

youre a pathetic asslicker and conformist of the lowest order.
so just fuck off.

 

[evdk]

Oh shit, hiver is having an episode again.

 

[Zeriel]

I liked Curst.

Probably goes back to that whole Planescape thing again--Curst is a great example of an area in the game that actually demonstrates what Planescape means in practice, not just theory.

Ok, I'm genuinely curious about this. How does it prove that in practice? By having you do a set of six mostly-linear quests that showcase a form of betrayal? Why isn't TNO the one being held for a fool, double-crossed and backstabbed at every turn? Why do these residents, who are supposedly all into the whole betrayal thing, tell you, when you ask them 'Dude, we're all totally a big bunch of betrayers, you better watch your back'? How does that make any sense?

I meant Curst as a setting period, not Curst as a game design setpiece. i.e the demonstration of towns sliding between the planes. Getting a bit off-topic, but while the late-game was rushed and not-so-great, I actually preferred some of the things we saw there. I wish there had been more planar jaunts (in other words, outside of Sigil), since I feel that's where the strength of Planescape lies. Bigger exploration of Baator, more application of Belief as a mechanism for plot rather than just a "HEY, LOOKIE, OVER HERE, YOU CAN BELIEVE A PLANT INTO GROWING" one-time trick.

Basically you're approaching this from the perspective of criticizing the gameplay Black Isle offered in much of the game. A lot of people have done this, hating on the kludgy combat and so on, and I guess I just don't see the point. I'm so far beyond that with Black Isle/Obsidian. I have long since given up on expecting them to ever implement amazing combat like XCOM, and am just resigned to their strength being plotting/characterization, so the only criticism that really holds water for me there is the player not being more closely involved in betrayal.

 

[EG]

every keystroke you make is tear-stained at this point.
Go have a smoke or something.
It's upsetting the natives.

you aint going to tell me shit, understand, newfag?
youre cheap, shallow and stupid. you have nothing to add to anything except trying to seem cool any pathetic way you can.
you play all of it safe because youre a fucking coward.
intellectually and emotionally.

youre a pathetic asslicker and conformist of the lowest order.
so just fuck off.

Your posts seem to be filled with anger today; that isn't usually how you present yourself.

Would you like to talk about it?

 

[Zeriel]

Hiver's posts aren't usually filled with anger? In what world?

 

[Harold]

The first part of the fortress, with all the shadows and the cannons, was really awful. The going doesn't get good until you get to the talky parts.

It wasn't great, that's for sure, but the puzzle was easy to figure out, so you could be done with it fairly quickly. It didn't bother me that much, but yes, I was mostly referring to the parts that came after.

 

[Lancehead]

the last few pages, well done Harold.

I do agree with the sentiment he expressed in his quote, that InXile needs to convince they can do justice to the name Torment. Weird that McComb interpreted it as already dismissing TTN.

Some of the people ITT seem to be functioning under the delusion that MCA single-handedly created PS:T and that all the team that inXile put together for the new Torment are just a bunch of dilettantes and usurpers that will accomplish nothing without MCA, which is a ridiculous notion, to say the least. Personally, even if MCA isn't going to be involved at all in the end, I think that the inXile Torment team has ample amounts of talent to pull it off, but, hey, don't stop your bitching on account of what I'm saying.

o_O
I don't see where I'm bitching. I mean, I'm making a pretty obvious statement there, which holds true regardless of the talents of InXile team.

 

[EG]

Hiver's posts aren't usually filled with anger? In what world?

In the world that ceased to exist this day.

 

[Harold]

...

Fair enough. I've said before that on paper a lot of the areas have great potential, they just weren't greatly presented in-game imo. Curst was especially jarring to me because it came right after the best part of the game - Ravel.

The belief thing was reinforced with more examples, actually. Adahn, the whole becoming-a-mage quest, the tale-chaser and her mother, making Vhailor realise he shouldn't exist, the ways you could upgrade some of your companions (Nordom especially). I'm sure there are others I'm not remembering right now.