Game News Tentative Torment Kickstarter Tiers Announced

[mikaelis]

It already is a great advertisement for him (if the game is good) and he presumably wants to be able to actually sell some copies and not give all away through various Kickstarters. I don't personally know under what terms Monte has allow Fargo to use his setting, but I wouldn't think the price was too high (if there indeed was any price tag attached at all).

Hmm, fair enough. Guess I would like to get more for less.

 

[hiver]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ide-much-more-upfront-info-during-kickstarter

throw some voices on it.

 

[80Maxwell08]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ide-much-more-upfront-info-during-kickstarter

throw some voices on it.

Good idea though it sounds like what would be necessary to understand the rules here is knowing the Numenera rules but since that's not out yet there may be some problems. A question though. What do you mean by them showing "quest writing"?

 

[jewboy]

I don't think the lack of a $15 tier is going to make a huge difference either way in the total funding. With the exception of third worlders for whom $25 might be a quarter of their monthly income, anyone not willing to throw in $25 is probably not a fan of the game anyway. Worrying about them is like worrying about the pirates who aren't willing to spend more than $0 for it. Whatever. If you don't care about helping to improve the game and reward Inxile for at least attempting to make this kind of game then you just aren't a fan. And if you aren't a fan of this kind of game then why should you support it? I get that.

The problem with having a $15 tier for the full game is that it sets the bar too low for some cheap people who are fans but are happy to pocket the extra $10 and not throw in their fair share. Perhaps such people simply lack the intelligence to understand what is really going on with a kickstarter fundraiser. Maybe they think it's like buying a game that is on sale in which case you obviously look for the cheapest price. Seeking the most expensive price is just not what normal people do. But this is not a purchase. Yes, you get the game when you throw in above some minimum amount to help fund it, but that is not supposed to be the point. Even if you insist that backing a kickstarter is indistinguishable from pre-ordering then I still can't understand people arguing that $25 is too high for a game like this. Cheap bastards.

 

[EG]

Yep, a $15 tier is the thing that'll guarantee a KickStarter to fail.

Because it's just not the "point."

 

[jewboy]

assertion 1:

This is not PE or Wasteland2 - "let us do it on faith and we will tell you the details as we go and invent stuff" kind of a deal.
That particular ridge has been largely crossed over by now.

I don't see why it is any different from PE or W2.

argument 1:

Especially because you are doing this so early, while Wasteland 2 hasnt come out yet or been presented in more detail then the recent video.

I don't follow this logic. If you backed Inxile the first time without specifics why wouldn't you back another project without specifics? Most of the specifics you are requesting they almost certainly don't have yet. I've never made a computer game, but I would imagine that it could easily be an iterative process, much like writing a novel. So what's the point of promising certain specifics and then just changing them when playtesting reveals that they don't work.

argument 2:

Torment is not combat centric either so there is much more important stuff to cover and present.

Why do you say that T:N is not combat centric? Are you buying the false dichotomy of good combat / bad story or bad combat / good story being the only options? I don't buy that it is a zero sum game.

Other than that I do like most of your suggestions though. All of those things would be nice to see and might help fence sitters decide not only on whether to back the game at all, but at what tier. I don't like how vague some kickstarters are and it is true that Inxile doesn't yet have a track record of creating good games. I think they should give as many specifics as they can and ideally not start their kickstarter fundraising campaign until they have at least some idea of how they would answer the questions you posed. Short writing examples from the writers would be particularly welcome. For a story heavy game skilled writing is critical. It would be great if a kickstarter pitch was taken as seriously as a pitch to a group of venture capitalists.

 

[jewboy]

Yep, a $15 tier is the thing that'll guarantee a KickStarter to fail.

Because it's just not the "point."

I never said it would fail, but I see it as pretty pointless. And what is so magical about the $15 price point? If that is good then why not go even lower? Why not $10 or $1 or just asking for a single US cent to get a full legal copy of the game? After all, even people who hate the whole idea of the game and hate RPGs might be wiling to throw in a penny for a legal copy. You might get half a million 'backers' that way. Maybe even a million. It's just a question of economics and I'm willing to bet that Fargo is a much better businessman than you are. If he thinks offering a legal copy of the game for a lower price makes financial sense then I'm sure he will do it. If you want to argue for that then go ahead and do it. Rolling your eyes isn't an argument.

 

[hiver]

Good idea though it sounds like what would be necessary to understand the rules here is knowing the Numenera rules but since that's not out yet there may be some problems. A question though. What do you mean by them showing "quest writing"?

All inclusive. Quest structure, dialogue, whatever.
You have comments there you know. Add.

I don't see why it is any different from PE or W2.

General kickstarter fatigue and the fact that you cant milk the same cow over and over.

Most of the specifics you are requesting they almost certainly don't have yet.

This has been in pre production long enough.
Some basics must be known.

Why do you say that T:N is not combat centric?

Because the focus of the game is not combat.

Are you buying the false dichotomy of

Whoa - whoa- wooo... easy there. I just extended my lips to first sips of coffee...

Other than that I do like most of your suggestions though. All of those things would be nice to see and might help fence sitters decide not only on whether to back the game at all, but at what tier. I don't like how vague some kickstarters are and it is true that Inxile doesn't yet have a track record of creating good games. I think they should give as many specifics as they can and ideally not start their kickstarter fundraising campaign until they have at least some idea of how they would answer the questions you posed. Short writing examples from the writers would be particularly welcome. For a story heavy game skilled writing is critical. It would be great if a kickstarter pitch was taken as seriously as a pitch to a group of venture capitalists.

Add ths comment - there.

 

[General Maxson]

gotta say, i will have to be mighty impressed with the pitch to put down $25. and i dont think im the only one feeling this way.

I agree. I can barely live as it is. I mean as jewboy put it, you can't be a fan if you're poor and they don't need your money anyway, so why bother...

 

[EG]

gotta say, i will have to be mighty impressed with the pitch to put down $25. and i dont think im the only one feeling this way.

I agree. I can barely live as it is. I mean as jewboy put it, you can't be a fan if you're poor and they don't need your money anyway, so why bother...

No, no, no. It's not "they don't need your money."

It's "They need your money in such vast sums that other donators would have to carry the obese corpses of lower tier contributors."



Beating your requested amount by a factor three indicates you're just not going to make the next time.

 

[FeelTheRads]

That page doesn't exist.

 

[Minttunator]

CONFIRMED, early bird tier, cheaper boxed version: https://twitter.com/thomasbeekers/status/307889984264892416

"Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!"
Just me or did BN remove the status?

 

[EG]

CONFIRMED, early bird tier, cheaper boxed version: https://twitter.com/thomasbeekers/status/307889984264892416

"Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!"
Just me or did BN remove the status?

His PR skills are immense.

 

[Infinitron]

CONFIRMED, early bird tier, cheaper boxed version: https://twitter.com/thomasbeekers/status/307889984264892416

"Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!"
Just me or did BN remove the status?

Goddammit Brother None

They're considering whether they want to do a $20 early bird tier or just a straight five dollar decrease on the existing one. It'll be one of those.

 

[Brother None]

Basically that, yeah. We're going to adjust some stuff, including added a low-price-point boxed versions, but I was a bit early in saying how we're going to approach adjusting the basic digital copy. But we are tweaking some stuff, based on feedback.

His PR skills are immense.

Good thing I'm not PR.

 

[EG]

His PR skills are immense.

Good thing I'm not PR.

I know the truth, Brother None! You cannot discredit me so easily.

 

[Vault Dweller]

assertion 1:
"This is not PE or Wasteland2 - "let us do it on faith and we will tell you the details as we go and invent stuff" kind of a deal. That particular ridge has been largely crossed over by now."

I don't see why it is any different from PE or W2.

WL2 is another Wasteland game from the creators of the original. PE is an "IWD meets Torment" game from people who made both games. No doubt whatsoever in their ability to deliver in both cases.

Torment is a different story (especially in light of the dialogue samples in the WL2 video). It's an iconic game and to simply say "we're making a Torment-like game, yay!" isn't enough. Torment's main and probably only strength is the quality of writing and storytelling.

WL2 and PE, for example, can have average dialogues and still be cool games. Torment can't. It's much easier to believe that a studio can do tactical combat right than to believe that they can do engaging dialogues with just the right amount of philosophical undertones. Hence, the assertion.

argument 1:

"Especially because you are doing this so early, while Wasteland 2 hasnt come out yet or been presented in more detail then the recent video."

I don't follow this logic. If you backed Inxile the first time without specifics why wouldn't you back another project without specifics?

a) see above, b) it's like borrowing money - it's much easier to get twenty bucks from a person when you ask him for the first time than when you ask him again, while still owing him the first twenty. Some people frown upon such practices.

c) skepticism. It's common in the industry to use money given for project B to finish project A, hoping to use the revenues to pay for project B's development. While it's a sensible approach and nobody here would mind more money going toward Wasteland 2, some people might frown upon that as well.

Most of the specifics you are requesting they almost certainly don't have yet. I've never made a computer game, but I would imagine that it could easily be an iterative process, much like writing a novel. So what's the point of promising certain specifics and then just changing them when playtesting reveals that they don't work.

Well, I'd prefer to see a certain vision, even if some things wouldn't work out and be replaced by something slightly different, than see another "it's gonna be cool, trust us!" Kickstarter.

And like I said, it's Torment. It's one thing to say 'guys, we'll make a tactical RPG but we don't have exact details just yet but I'm sure we can do something cool', it's quite another to say 'we're making a Torment game, we don't have much to show but I'm sure we can write something cool.'

argument 2:

"Torment is not combat centric either so there is much more important stuff to cover and present."

Why do you say that T:N is not combat centric? Are you buying the false dichotomy of good combat / bad story or bad combat / good story being the only options? I don't buy that it is a zero sum game.

Anyone played Torment for combat? Anyone praised it? If the game didn't have Avellone's writing, it would have been another Lionheart. Sure, it had plenty of combat and plenty of grinding, but the writing made it worthwhile. You fought and gained levels not because it was so awesome but because it unlocked new areas, new conversations, etc.

For a story heavy game skilled writing is critical.

Precisely.

 

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller
They have two co-creators of the Planescape setting on their staff. They also have the lead designer of MotB.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But it's not the setting that made PST the Codex favorite. Sure, it was cool and better than FR, but like I said, it was the writing that did the heavy lifting. Lionheart had a cool setting too, yet it didn't prevent it from ascending to utter shitdom, even despite the fact that BIS helped them with Barcelona.

Ziets is pretty good, no arguing here, but there is a reason that the Codex has but one god, no?

 

[Infinitron]

But it's not the setting that made PST the Codex favorite. Sure, it was cool and better than FR, but like I said, it was the writing that did the heavy lifting. Lionheart had a cool setting too, yet it didn't prevent it from ascending to utter shitdom, even despite the fact that BIS helped them with Barcelona.

Ziets is pretty good, no arguing here, but there is a reason that the Codex has but one god, no?

But one god...who doesn't want to make "text vomit" games anymore. At least, not now.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not saying the game will be shit. I'm saying that many people, including myself, would expect them to prove that they have what it takes to deliver, which isn't an easy task.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not saying the game will be shit. I'm saying that many people, myself including, would expect them to prove that they have what it takes to deliver, which isn't an easy task.

Yep. Hopefully the pitch will have what it takes.

At the very least we can be reasonably sure it will compare well with Lord British's Kickstarter.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Even if Tides of Numenera doesn't quite live up to PS:T, I'll still be prefer to have it be made than not. If you asked me a couple years ago if I would pay $25 for a game that was like PS:T in tone and approach, but "only" pretty good instead of brilliant, I would have jumped at it in a heartbeat.

 

[Vault Dweller]

... Lord British's Kickstarter.

"Motherfucker" is all I'm going to say on the subject.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Even if Tides of Numenera doesn't quite live up to PS:T, I'll still be prefer to have it be made than not. If you asked me a couple years ago if I would pay $25 for a game that was like PS:T in tone and approach, but "only" pretty good instead of brilliant, I would have jumped at it in a heartbeat.

Well, we'll all settle for "pretty good" rather happily, but the problem is that pretty good RPGs are very few and far between, which means that the range of possibilities here is a bit wider than "pretty good to brilliant".