Community The Age of Incline: RPG Codex's 2012-2016 GOTY Results

[felipepepe]

Okay, now that the "muh potato" drama has hopefully waned, I'd like to ask: would people be interested in doing a "Top 25 (or maybe 50) RPGs + SHORT reviews" list like we did for the Top 50 list?

If so, start writing.

Yes, but I'd like to suggest something.

First, make a topic where everyone can suggest game to be nominated. So you won't miss titles you personally don't know.

Then make the voting for all the games that were suggested (it will be a lot, but I believe in you, mighty felipepepe)

Do a 10 scale voting with 2 additional options. 5 scale is not enough, it doesn't let me express my feelings, so to speak, and I feel dirty voting 5/5 when I'd rather give something 9/10 or 8/10.
The 2 additional options would be: 1) Didn't vote (like before), and 2) Not cRPG (because lots of the suggested games will be anything but RPGs)

Then, at the end when presenting the results, give tags to the games, such as 'turn-based', 'story-heavy' etc, so those butthurt twats who moan and whine that Thwitcher 3 is not the true RPG because it is open world, not set in a basement, and the combat is not the same like in tactical games would just shut the fuck up, because they are pathetic shits.

that's all for now. stay tuned.

I don't mean a new voting, I mean making reviews for the games we just elected.

 

[Zeriel]

With some of these AoD fanboys, I am constantly asking myself if they even have a brain.

you couldn't even figure out how to buy weapon and stuff before first quest....
and now you saying somebody here doesn't have a brain?

Yeah, I think that's the problem with most of AoD's critics. They're all so godawful at games. If the criticism was "Hey, I beat the entire game, here's why AoD is a piece of shit", it would be a lot easier to take them seriously. (And yes, I suppose this means I am suggesting they should lie about finding the game easy so we take their criticism more seriously.)

 

[Mareus]

With some of these AoD fanboys, I am constantly asking myself if they even have a brain.

you couldn't even figure out how to buy weapon and stuff before first quest....
and now you saying somebody here doesn't have a brain?

Oh for fuck's sake you fucking retard. See? This is what I am talking about. You guys are fucking retarded! You just have to twist my words into something that doesn't even resemble a coherent thought. Gee... yeah... hahaha this guy is so stupid he couldnt even figure out how to buy a weapon before the first quest... hahaha! Seriously go fuck yourself you retarded dipshit.

It's not that I didn't see the option for it or didn't know how to buy a weapon you imbecile. The problem is that I wasn't expecting to be teleported away with no other options after I accepted the quest. I thought the game would let me walk around. Talk with some people in the tavern, maybe hire some extra help, maybe go out in the street, buy some armor and then come back. But no! The game fucking teleports you into a dangerous situation before I even had the time to equip the items I had in my inventory. Jesus fucking Christ, how hard is this to understand?

 

[makiavelli747]

"Hey, I beat the entire game, here's why AoD is a piece of shit"

yup, i love when someone with knowledge bashing decent games

 

[Mareus]

With some of these AoD fanboys, I am constantly asking myself if they even have a brain.

you couldn't even figure out how to buy weapon and stuff before first quest....
and now you saying somebody here doesn't have a brain?

Yeah, I think that's the problem with most of AoD's critics. They're all so godawful at games. If the criticism was "Hey, I beat the entire game, here's why AoD is a piece of shit", it would be a lot easier to take them seriously. (And yes, I suppose this means I am suggesting they should lie about finding the game easy so we take their criticism more seriously.)

No. The problem is that you guys are just fucking retarded and will go out of your way to demonize and twist the words of anything and anyone who dares to criticize your favorite game. Your own comments are proof of that behavior and it is quite frankly sad to watch.

 

[Goral]

I see a pattern here:

Spoiler

By the time I post this it will probably be out of date already :D.

 

[Zeriel]

No. The problem is that you guys are just fucking retarded

You're making a pretty nuanced argument there. Tell me more.

 

[Mareus]

No. The problem is that you guys are just fucking retarded

You're making a pretty nuanced argument there. Tell me more.

Nice quote mining, dipshit.

 

[makiavelli747]

anyone who dares to criticize your favorite game

i can criticize my favorite games.. watch me: AoD is shit because it has tags which shows to retards that game has skill checks(otherwise they wouldn't know), AoD is shit because it has a lot of free skill points(including stupid reward system for side quest in general) which allow players to meta-game, grind and does not punish retards for wrong choices, because mixing persuasion with streetwise in single dialogue line is retarded... because it has 4 combat stats and only two social
it is shit because it has bolas for retards to solve hard fights.... and so on.
Also main quest should have been a side quest, it is retarded to go to the Temple every fucking time when playing "low magic" game.

Edit: oh, and i forgot about lasers in the Tample which doesn't kill you for some reason.

 

[Mareus]

anyone who dares to criticize your favorite game

i can criticize my favorite games.. watch me: AoD is shit because it has tags which shows to retards that game has skill checks(otherwise they wouldn't know), AoD is shit because it has a lot of free skill points(including stupid reward system for side quest in general) which allow players to meta-game, grind and does not punish retards for wrong choices, because mixing persuasion with streetwise in single dialogue line is retarded... because it has 4 combat stats and only two social
it is shit because it has bolas for retards to solve hard fights.... and so on.
Also main quest should have been a side quest, it is retarded to go to the Temple every fucking time when playing "low magic" game.

Edit: oh, and i forgot about lasers in the Tample which doesn't kill you for some reason.

 

[Lurker King]

No. The problem is that you guys are just fucking retarded and will go out of your way to demonize and twist the words of anything and anyone who dares to criticize your favorite game. Your own comments are proof of that behavior and it is quite frankly sad to watch.

We are not twisting anything, Mareus. We had this discussion one hundred times in many threads, and the criticisms all look the same. I’m start to think that it would be a good idea to write a paper on the top misconceptions about AoD. At least that way I would avoid the trouble of having to dismantle misinformed and superficial arguments every single time. It’s tiresome to discuss with people like you because it is obvious that your criticisms are based on your own encrusted expectations about game design, and you are so arrogant that you think this somehow makes you entitled to an objective point of view. If you don’t like the game, that’s fine. But don’t pretend to have anything interesting to say about game design because you don’t.

 

[Mareus]

No. The problem is that you guys are just fucking retarded and will go out of your way to demonize and twist the words of anything and anyone who dares to criticize your favorite game. Your own comments are proof of that behavior and it is quite frankly sad to watch.

We are not twisting anything, Mareus. We had this discussion one hundred times in many threads, and the criticisms all look the same. I’m start to think that it would be a good idea to write a paper on the top misconceptions about AoD. At least that way I would avoid the trouble of having to dismantle misinformed and superficial arguments every single time. It’s tiresome to discuss with people like you because it is obvious that your criticisms are based on your own encrusted expectations about game design, and you are so arrogant that you think this somehow makes you entitled to an objective point of view. If you don’t like the game, that’s fine. But don’t pretend to have anything interesting to say about game design because you don’t.

Jesus fucking Christ... you are the definition of a retarded AoD fanboy. First you say you are not twisting anything when that dipshit retard makiavelli747 was caught doing just that. And than you come here to teach me about objectivity just after you were caught comparing PST characters to anime??? What the fuck is wrong with you, you autistic sperg imbecile?!

 

[makiavelli747]

yeah, V_K, i know you are save&load pussy, can't tell a skill check when you see one...

 

[Jazz_]

The last page resumed in a gif:

 

[laclongquan]

I don't mean a new voting, I mean making reviews for the games we just elected.

Where? On which thread? What is the procedure for submitting a review?

 

[Vault Dweller]

People like Oblivion not because they like the design (or lack thereof) but because they like sandbox games a lot. It's probably the hottest RPG genre these days, which is why everyone's jumping on it, including Bioware.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. Surely you understand that the sandbox genre is the product of game design, so when you say that people like Oblivion not because of it's design but because they like sandbox - you are contradicting yourself. Design has everything to do with it - wheather that design intails dumbing down certain aspects of a game or creating a huge open world, or doing the opposite - all of it is still by design! Besides, you are now talking about popularity of certain genres, which is not what my argument was about. I merely mentioned Oblivion as a response to how non-sensical it is to defend your design decisions by dismissing criticizm as nothing more than personal preference.

Being able to go anywhere, battle random monsters and do random quests can hardly be called design as it's too broad and generic. There is a lot of demand for this type of games, provided you have top notch visuals, which keeps the entry barrier high enough and rewards investment. If one can produce such a game, which usually takes 5 years and a small fortune, the actual design (combat, quests, character system, etc) won't really matter because that high entry barrier keeps supply low.

In other words, your analogy was flawed.

I think you are simplifying things too much. If you had a valid point here, then it would follow that every open world sandbox game would be more successful than any non-sandbox game, but this is not the case. Hell, Call of Duty alone debunks your argument.

Shooters have always been more popular than RPGs but in the RPG realm sandbox games rule supreme.

Now, I will grant you that you can make an argument how there is some personal preference involved here in the sense that there are players who prefer fanatical "no way out-no compromise" scenarios vs those of us who wish a bit more flexibility so that we don't have to play your game with goddamn meta-knowledge half of the time. But you can't honestly stand here and pretend that your design choices don't come with a particular set of problems that might actually work antithetical to the RPG genre.

Even the way you present it: fanatics vs 'us reasonable folk who appreciate flexibility' suggests strong bias. You didn't get to do this one thing your way, so you dismiss both the explanation and the fact that the infiltration quest has tons of different options, more than any other quest I can think of. If you disagree, name a quest with more options.

Obviously the game is well received on the Codex (i.e. within the same RPG community). It has flaws (more than I like) but the overall consensus here is that it's a good RPG. Then we have some people like you, Lhynn, and Jazz who are convinced that it's actually a bad RPG. So either you're right and the rest of the Codex is wrong and AoD *is* a bad RPG or you simply prefer a very different design. Either way, there isn't much room for dialogue here.

Oh yes, we are just going to ignore the fact that the majority of your player-base comes from people who have been pushing for exactly that type of design....

Ignore? My entire point was that there are a lot of people who like this design. I know it's a niche design and we'll never sell hundreds of thousands of copies but we're fine with that and more than happy to serve that particular player base. We sold 85,000 copies, most of them on Steam where the game is also well received, so this particular design isn't something that appeals only to the Codex.

... and we are just going to ignore all those who didn't bother to complain....

They must be new to the internet because everyone else complains non-stop about everything.

...aaaaaaand just for extra objectivity measure we are also going to ignore all those who complained about similar things, but came up with different examples...

No matter how you count these complaints, even if you group them all together they are still a minority, even on the Codex.

 

[Irenaeus]

AoD is simply the 2nd best liked cRPG from 2012-2016 at the Codex, after Twicther3.

Let that sink in.

 

[Lurker King]

PS:T and Fallout having BioWare anime characters? What?

Seriously, you really are the worst sort of deluded fanboy - it's not enough to say that AoD is, like, the greatestest RPG that's ever graced the genre, no, you have to convince yourself (because that's the only person you're convincing here - you) that PS:T and Fallout had bad characters.

I posted for the lulz. In FOs you have both the mundane writing that reflects the rotten reality of post-apocalyptical world, and the wacky-zany shit about pop culture that I can live without. If you enjoyed FOs writing because of the first, you will definitely enjoy AoD writing. You will see many reviewers making these comparisons between AoD and FO outside of the Codex, but somehow here FO is the epitome of good writing and AoD is just serviceable. PS:T has the story tied to gameplay, but also has some cringe worthy writing, including romances with Annah. Every classic game is a mixed bag in regard to writing. But saying that AoD has no engaging characters is utter rubish. You have memorable characters such as Miltiades, Neleos, Livia, etc; and some players complained that they want romances more interactivity with them.

By the way, Vault Dweller, I have a vivid memory that in FO2 some of your choices of dialogue represents your own insults, for instance, when you kill one of the casino bosses. I think it was written by Avellone: “No, fat fuck, you die! You die!”. You should try this in your new game, using insults to NPCs as a dialogue choice. In AoD you break the fourth wall sometimes, e.g., “Kill the fuckers”, “You know the drill”, etc., but you should definitely explore this.

 

[ArchAngel]

AoD is simply the 2nd best liked cRPG from 2012-2016 at the Codex, after Twicther3.

Let that sink in.

You are right, Underrail should be #1 and AoD I guess #3.

 

[Lurker King]

The last page resumed in a gif:

Fixed!

 

[GregorMortam]

Anybody here surprised at how high Dragons Dogma was on the list? I'm guessing it shot up there on its game play alone which isn't surprising since it was directed by the same guy who made several of the Devil May Cry games.

 

[gaussgunner]

Spot on Lhynn, AoD doesn't excel at anything unlike Troika's games, it's a decent indie game with poor production values even for being an indie game. I honestly don't understand how a game like AoD can attract such fanatic fanboys, unless it really blows your mind to have a heavily branching storyline, I guess, but even that it only plays out in scripted set pieces, like going thru different slides in a CYOA visual novel, the ''great reactivity'' is nothing like in Fallout where it involved player agency in the world and the choices were tied to actual gameplay.

Right on, bro. Too many RPGs use dialogue as a substitute for a quest system capable of recognizing the player's actions. Programming one isn't hard. Common actions are: entering an area, being seen by an npc, attacking/killing an npc, getting an item, delivering an item, and dialogue choices. The challenge is to write dialogue that doesn't assume prior events -- by omission, vagueness, and conditional coding when necessary. You sacrifice a lot of literary flourishes to fit the medium.

Being able to go anywhere, battle random monsters and do random quests can hardly be called design as it's too broad and generic. There is a lot of demand for this type of games, provided you have top notch visuals, which keeps the entry barrier high enough and rewards investment. If one can produce such a game, which usually takes 5 years and a small fortune, the actual design (combat, quests, character system, etc) won't really matter because that high entry barrier keeps supply low.

Counterexample: Spiderweb iso rpgs look like shit, take only 1 year to make, and fit the description of "open world" in every way (for better or worse).

Project Management.... if it takes you 5 years, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Jazz_]

Fixed!

Seems like the only immature butthurt autist who cannot deal with people having a different opinion here is you, what else if not extreme butthurt and insecurity drives you to hunt down (even retroactively!) and rate every post that dares criticize your favorite videogame as ''retarded'' and ''shit''? I would be really surprised if you are not on the spectrum.

 

[Lurker King]

i can criticize my favorite games.. watch me: AoD is shit because...

Me too. Things I don’t like in AoD. The mountain of dead lore that is mentioned in dialogues but amounts to no gameplay. Locations like the old facility, dead river and the temple that are there just there because history. The fact that most paths end on the temple, but should end in faction quests. The fact that the final quests of some factions are meh. The fact that you can’t see the impact of some of your choices on the game world, for instance, the destruction of Maadoran or the mess involving the praetor quests. Some of the sounds. The obscure interface and bad tutorial. The horrible rotatable camera. The decline 3D art, instead of 2D. The cramped rooms. The fact that you lost contact with some of the best characters.The fact that the reputation system was underused.

There is plenty of things to dislike about AoD, but that has nothing to do with text-adventures, or the fact that you can be punished by failed stat/skill checks. What I find curious is that the same people who wouldn’t have any problem in reloading one thousand times to beat a platform game think this is the end of the world in cRPGs. It seems that they prefer to play a linear game if the price they have to pay for choices is the risk of failure. What a bunch of manchild. LOL

 

[Wizfall]

The witcher 3 being up there...the number of people liking old school cRPG on this site have decreased quite significantly.
The game may be good but not only it's an action "cRPG" but you did not even choose/create your character.
More decline than that...