Elder Scrolls The appeal of Skyrim

[HarveyBirdman]

Well, i think it is pretty telling that the masses are starting to turn against Bethesda the closer their games get to mere shooters. Like Fallout 4, and now Fallout 76, both of which didn't offer the type of experience Bethesda fans crave as much as their others games did, that experience being LARPing, as i said.

But the masses aren't turning against Bethesda for Fallout 4, which was just open world Doom. It sold more than any other Bethesda game ever. And at its release, it was the worst Bethesda game ever according to actual fans of Bethesda games, but the best one ever according the dumbasses on plebbit and their ilk.

Fallout 76 is a different animal entirely. Bethesda fans were never going to like it, and nu-fans expected FALLOUT: DOOM, MULTIPLAYER EDITION, only to get stuck with clunkier combat than Goldeneye for the N64, more bugs than any Bethesda game ever (impressive in some respects), and an absolutely worthless experience all around. So it never appealed to anybody but the ultimate fanboys, who are braindead anyway.

Who gives a fuck about lore? We are talking about the content of the game itself, no the made up fiction surrounding it.

What do you call "content of the game?" Spoonfed worldbuilding via dialogue? I mean, I like Chris Avellone-style worldbuilding just as much as the next guy, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. To an extent, you're right about LARPing -- at its core (and at odds with Todd's devious plans to ruin the entire company) TES is a tabletop RPG brought into CRPG format. You learn as much about the lore as you want, and thus LARP.

TES delivers its lore similarly to Tolkein -- does Gandalf tell the reader that he's literally an angel reluctantly sent to Middle Earth along with other angels to serve as guides for the mortal peoples and elves on diaspora so that they might live in accordance with the wisdom of Iluvatar? And does he tell you that that's the short version of the short version of the abridged guide to the short version of his purpose? No, he does not. You have to piece together the lore of Middle Earth from the words and deeds of every character, and then on top of it all, read all the footnotes and several hundred pages of mock Bible via the Silmarilion.

TES is more or less the same in that respect. But TES diverges from Tolkein in that Tolkein has the one true canon, while TES actively obfuscates what the truth is; it gives myriad different accounts, and leaves it to the player to decide what the truth is. TES even gives a lore reason for this, because mythopoeia literally creates all existence. So in some ways, TES is even deeper than Tolkein, because the outcomes are multilayered as opposed to deterministic. I could go on for weeks about this.

So when you say "who gives the fuck about lore?" you're saying the equivalent of, "who gives a fuck about the Silmarillion?" Admittedly, not many people compared to the larger fanbase, but to people who actually love the universe, it means everything. And game gotta respect game -- if you're a fan of literature but hate the Silmarillion, you need to at least respect its achievement. The same applies to liking RPGs and respecting TES lore.

Last TES game i actually played was Morrowind, and i didn't get far acquiring any knowledge of the "lore" because the writing was just so goddamn terrible.

Main quest-wise, the writing was terrible up until you get to the Ashlanders. From there it's pretty solid. But sure, I 100% agree the dialogue isn't on the same tier as Torment or Fallout 2, and I would love to see Bethesda make massive improvements in that area. But there are flashes of really great dialogue, and the books fill in the massive blanks spectacularly. Like you said, it's LARPing -- if you want to be a lorebeard, you have to put forth the effort into reading the content that makes you a lorebeard.

I also never finished the game but i played enough to get a sense of why so many people liked it.

I think you've gotten a sense of why some people like the franchise, but not a sense of why other people absolutely love it. You LARPed as somebody who isn't curious about the nature of the ground beneath your character's feet. In other words, you had a very authentic experience that mirrors the dialogue most NPCs will provide -- they're just here to do the stuff. You could also have LARPed by getting curious about the dirt -- how did that even get here? who made it? -- and searching high and low for answers. It doesn't appeal to everybody, but I think it's a fantastic way to deliver a story on many numerous layers.

In the end, you get out what you put in.

 

[luj1]

morrowind is probably one of the more overrated 'classics'

it has an interesting world and... that's about where the good part ends

You are right rusty. Besides an amazing story, art direction, no level scaling, no respawns, free-form design, starting from nothing, no map markers and other BS and being the only Bethesda game produced without algorithms and their last PC game and a game where everything is hand-placed its totally just the world

Spoiler

 

[Funposter]

Well, i think it is pretty telling that the masses are starting to turn against Bethesda the closer their games get to mere shooters. Like Fallout 4, and now Fallout 76, both of which didn't offer the type of experience Bethesda fans crave as much as their others games did, that experience being LARPing, as i said.

But the masses aren't turning against Bethesda for Fallout 4, which was just open world Doom. It sold more than any other Bethesda game ever. And at its release, it was the worst Bethesda game ever according to actual fans of Bethesda games, but the best one ever according the dumbasses on plebbit and their ilk.

This is just blatantly untrue. Yes, Fallout 4 had an incredible launch period and broke the record on Steam for concurrent players, but the only official data we have is that it shipped 12 million units. This is different to selling 12 million units, and I'm not the only person I know to have seen dozens of copies of Fallout 4 sitting in an EB Games for $28AU less than a year after its release. Games stores couldn't get rid of the fucking things. On the other hand, we have proof that Skyrim has sold more than 30,000,000 units since it was released. The only word we have on Fallout 4's sales is from Pete Hines in 2017 saying that it sold better than Skyrim in the same period, which is to say, in the couple of years after the game's launch. Even now, there are more people combined on Steam playing Skyrim and Skyrim SE than there are playing Fallout 4. Fallout 4 was also a critical disappointment for the studio, receiving aggregate reviews in the 84-88 range as opposed to Skyrim which was in the 92-96 range. Part of this is a failure of marketing, since Skyrim was an enormous launch with incredible trailers that tapped into a need for a new kind of fantasy following years of a Peter Jackon LOTR-esque aesthetic in RPGs. It pre-dates all of the Viking-esque, northern fantasy television which has been produced in the last few years excepting Game of Thrones, and even then it was still announced well before GoT began airing.

Fallout 4 is probably proof that Bethesda managed to stray too far away from being even a barebones RPG for casual players. Bethesda wanted to streamline the experience even more in Fallout 4, but I think they'd struck gold with the "perfect" balance of everything in Skyrim. Fallout 76 is further proof that they doubled down on a formula that not even casual players are interested in. There has to be some semblance of depth, mechanically, and Skyrim probably maintains the illusion best without actually expecting too much from the player. You've got numbers for skills, perk trees, a few different bars to level up, and even those standing stones. Fallout 4 has SPECIAL and an arbitrary perk screen. It doesn't feel organic, and doesn't satisfy the same need for growth.

edit: also re sales, that Bethesda haven't openly announced a number for Fallout 4 despite parading Skyrim's sales figures probably means that it was seen, internally, as a failure on some level.

 

[JDR13]

But the masses aren't turning against Bethesda for Fallout 4, which was just open world Doom. It sold more than any other Bethesda game ever. And at its release, it was the worst Bethesda game ever according to actual fans of Bethesda games, but the best one ever according the dumbasses on plebbit and their ilk.

That's odd. I've been a Bethesda fan since Daggerfall, and I though Fallout 4 was actually pretty good. It was an improvement over FO3 in most ways and light years better than something like Oblivion.

In truth, you have no idea what actual Bethesda fan's opinions are.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Skyrim one of the best RPGs ever made. Anybody who disagrees is a contrarian nostalgiafag better suited to dicking in their parents' basement for 500 hours trying to figure out what a stat in Grimoire does.

Where the fuck do these newfags come from?

But it's not without numerous and massive flaws.

Skyrim's Pros

Here's the first flaw of your argument. Skyrim has no good aspects.

- TES lore is the most interesting metaphysical thoughtplay in the history of gaming.

One which was completely butchered and raped after Morrowind.

- The best handcrafted open world in history, period.

- Jeremy Soule knocked it out of the park, once again.

Overrated.

... Auditory atmosphere is perfect.

- Visual aesthetics -- top tier.

- The DLC is excellent, adding extra layers of roleplaying, awesome NPCs, great quests, great combat abilities, and the best dungeons in the entire game. Dragonborn is best, Dawnguard is only slightly lesser, and Hearthfire is a worthwhile addition.

Lol no.

-The main quest is a solid addition to the series. It's an epic tale. Epic tales are good things when they're done well. This epic tale is done well.

Except it isn't done well.

-The Daedric quests are good. Each quest is unique, matching the unique personalities of each Prince.

Their premise is unique. Doing the quests is trite, like every other activity in the game.

- Factions you can join: Greybeards, Blades, Empire, Stormcloaks, DB, Thieve's Guild, College of Winterhold, Companions, Bard's College, Thane of 9 different holds, Dawnguard, Volkihar Vampire Clan, and House Telvanni. Thats 22 factions, 14 when you call being a thane essentially one faction, all of which are completely distinct from one another, and a few of which lock you out from joining other factions. Additionally, some other groups could be considered factions you can join -- Reiklings, Thirsk, and Frostmoon Pack.

None them provide you with different ways to interact with world, playstyles or consequences and most importantly interesting quests.

- Dragon shouts are sick. Being the Dragonborn is sick. The lore (obviously) makes them even sicker. You're a curmudgeon if you don't like them.

Yeah they're pretty fucking extreme bro.

- Combat is fun, and provides lots of options for roleplaying.

You have very low standards don't you.

Then not only you just listed more cons than pros - and cons that qualify the game as shit - but also some of those cons directly contradict your listed pros.
Yet Skyrim is the best RPG ever made?

 

[mondblut]

The appeal of Skyrim is in loverslab mods.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

This is just blatantly untrue...

Huh, I didn't know all that. Pretty much stopped paying attention to anything FO4 related after I realized it was awful. Makes me happy that it was likely a secret flop. Makes me very unhappy that Bethesda thought they could still use it to make FO76 a commercial success.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Where the fuck do these newfags come from?

>posts wojack
>joined 2015 -> has the nerve to complain about newfags
Not even a good bait.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Bethesda fans keep demonstrating why exterminatus is the only option.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

That's odd. I've been a Bethesda fan since Daggerfall, and I though Fallout 4 was actually pretty good.

I swear, the average IQ here must be around 100.

 

[GrainWetski]

That's odd. I've been a Bethesda fan since Daggerfall, and I though Fallout 4 was actually pretty good.

I swear, the average IQ here must be around 100.

So about twice yours, then?

 

[The Glitterdust Golem]

Teenage power-fantasy masturbation that's fun to brainlessly play only with mods. Ta-da, the secret of Bethesda's formula!

 

[commie]

Pile of festering shit...

'Sup Drog?

 

[JDR13]

I swear, the average IQ here must be around 100.

Just go back to school and, hopefully, in a few years, you'll be able to understand most of what the rest of us are saying.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

So about twice yours, then?

What you lack in bantz, Grain, I expect you make up for in special olympics hockey skills.

Just go back to school and, hopefully, in a few years, you'll be able to understand most of what the rest of us are saying.

That's just cruel. You know I can't be within 1,000 feet of a school.

***

And subhuman commies aren't worth directly replying to. Go eat half a potato or something.

 

[Poseidon00]

I swear, the average IQ here must be around 100.

Well, at least it's better than most third world countries.

 

[JDR13]

That's just cruel. You know I can't be within 1,000 feet of a school.

Just learn to keep that tiny pecker in your pants.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Just learn to keep that tiny pecker in your pants.

Did you just assume my gender? Bioware is going to have words with you. Prepare yourself.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I swear, the average IQ here must be around 100.

Well it's really no surprise, considering both you and TemplarGR posted in this thread.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

both you, fluent and TemplarGR posted in this thread.

>both 1, 2, and 3
>both

 

[Beastro]

Skyrim is like the worst kinds of junk food, like twinkies, yodels and moonpies. They barely even qualify as a proper desert being just pure sugar and shit with everything around them trying to present the imagine that that's not what they are.

This thread brings to mind when I was near finished playing it never to return when they patched in romances. I decided, what the hell, let's see what their attempt at this kinda thing is like, and wound up married with a chick in my house standing there like a robot saying "I love you" doing nothing. Now if their attempt was to try to produce what it's like to buy a "mail order bride" off the streets, then I could see that they accomplished what they set out to do, but no, it has the pretense of real romance to scratch that LARPing angle of so many players doing things like this knowing it's not even an honest attempt and imitating relationships in games that then brings to mind the other let downs in the game of the same mold, like Aulduin being just another fucking dragon despite everything they did in the end part of the game trying to immerse you into the fact that he is supposed to be anything but that.

Shit like that destroys the pretense and verisimilitude of a game and only brings to mind my questions as to why I'm wasting my free time playing a hallow life less game like it.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Blah, blah, literally talking about moonpies instead of the game, blah blah, pretending romances are what made you hate Skyrim, blah, blah, verisimilitude, blah

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Well it's really no surprise, considering both you, fluent and TemplarGR posted in this thread.

Excuse me? What did I do to deserve such a blatant insult? I'll have you know my IQ is actually off the charts, over 180 when tested in grade school where I was considered an absolute genius and too advanced for the classes I was taking. Reading comprehension and spelling on college levels in grade 5/6. If anything I am raising the average IQ around here, and I wouldn't even bother posting about that but you insulted me my good man without any good reason.

Skyrim is fun for what it is. The reason it gets discussed so much is because it sold 10 billion copies and everyone in the world has played it to death. Even people here who pretend they haven't. It's okay, the game is a huge world to just dick around in, dive through dungeons, have some interesting Daedric quests and just explore. But the world design is no Gothic/Risen/ELEX here. It's mindless and brainless fun, easy to play and accessible yet still interesting enough on harder difficulties to keep you somewhat engaged. Crafting can be fun and the perk tree is decently done, even if I wish they'd go back to Morrowind or Daggerfall's skill lists and stats (never going to happen, I know.) There's enough content to keep you busy and enough exploration to keep things interesting as well. Morrowind is still da best but Skyrim isn't as bad as people say it is. Is it decline from Morrowind? Sure. Is it some terrible blasphemy against RPGs? No, not at all.

That said I'd rather play Kingmaker, Kenshi, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Gothic, Risen, ELEX, Arcanum and a host of other RPGs before replaying it. Although having it in VR will be a good enough reason for a replay in my book. Now you all have a fine day, chaps. G'day.

 

[Okagron]

Skyrim has to be one of the most souless games i ever seen. It's a corporate manufactured product made to appeal to as many people as possible, regardless if it alienates fans of the previous games. Everything else this game does is done by some other RPG a million times better, making me question why the fuck would i play this when i can be playing far better RPGs that offer so much more?

I'm gonna use the same food analogy that is used above and say Skyrim is basically a cheap, bland burger. Why would i eat this when i can eat a juicy filet mignon steak instead?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Skyrim has to be one of the most souless games i ever seen. It's a corporate manufactured product made to appeal to as many people as possible, regardless if it alienates fans of the previous games. Everything else this game does is done by some other RPG a million times better, making me question why the fuck would i play this when i can be playing far better RPGs that offer so much more?

I'm gonna use the same food analogy that is used above and say Skyrim is basically a cheap, bland burger. Why would i eat this when i can eat a juicy filet mignon steak instead?

That's not a great analogy and I'll tell you why. It's more like *different food*. Not bland, not better or worse, but different. Do you want a spicy chicken sandwich or a steak? Maybe you'd like a fried shrimp basket instead of a crab cake. It's not that the food is bland, it's that each game presents a different type of experience. This is incline in itself, because otherwise we're left with homogenization and all games being similar, which we don't want. So even if Skyrim personally doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean it's bland, it means you prefer a different type of food. It's good that we have many options on the menu so we can try all sorts of different experiences.

Personally, I like to sample all sorts of RPGs, so I play mostly everything, with a few exceptions. I'm mostly a fan of niche RPGs but I'll play the big ones too, just depends on what the game presents on the platter. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to eat something because all of the sudden I'm hungry for some reason.