Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Apostle Hand]

New players are always welcome to the community, with fresh views, and Beamdog succeded in bringing new players to the arena.

 

[Krivol]

Ignored

 

[Grunker]

Man SCS is so fucking awesome. First playthrough in a couple years. Bandit Camp with 'Calls for Help' and Improved Bandit Camp is just so cool. You get the entire boss fight from the tent along with every single hobo and bandit + ardenor crush and Taurgosz Khosann rushing you when you trigger the alarm.

Usually I take it on when I have the Necklace of Missiles and at least one Wand of Fireballs, but I use the Item Randomiser mod (which is awesome, btw), so I'm not guaranteed to find those. Couple this with a desire to use Faldorn in my composition (meaning I want to tackle Bandit Camp fast to unlock Cloakwood) this run and not wishing to waste XP, and the rub is this: my five-man party leveled between 4 and 5, consisting of Dwarven Defender protagonist, Blackguard, Monk (man these are not worth much on lower levels), shaman and wild mage taking on the bandit camp with almost no AoE - in fact, my Wild Mage doesn't even have Fireball or Haste and only a single copy of Mirror Image memorized.

Of course I wipe on the first couple of attempts. My succesful attempts is one of the best IE-experiences I've ever had.

Party sets up by the ruins at the bottom of the map, which means there are roughly three openings from which enemies can come. Shaman lays down 2x Writhing Fog on one of them. Wild Mage lays down Web (Spell Revisions installed though) on another. The third and most important has Dwarven Defender on duty. I dislike using pots heavily as these can be insane in BG, so all party members are limited to one potion-buff each.

The result of this tactic is 4 bandits and a couple of hobgoblins standing in the Writhing Fog, taking a bit of damage but more importantly, being slowed. 4 or 5 more bandits as well as a few hobos get stuck in the web. A few more take those routes but get through the fog/web by saving vs. spell. The rest come at me from the opening. Most hop on the protag, allowing me to use Defensive Stance to buy some time. Dual Wielding Blackguard starts taking out the trash. Wild Mage uses wand of paralyzation on Khosan, which fails, meaning he gets some damage in before second use of the wand manages to paralyze him. Venkt manages to get off two annoying spells before my Shaman hits him with a Summon Insects and, though nerfed by Spell Revisions, it still manages to annoy Venkt enough that my Blackguard can take him out while my Monk goes on rabble duty.

However, due to my complete lack of crowd control, all of this means that the 20+ trash mobs of Black Talons, Bandits and hobgoblins are wailing at my guys while the Gnoll boss, Crush and Hakt go to town on my Monk and my Dwarven Defender, who, even through his 55% phys reduction, is really starting to feel it.

Due to having installed the option that makes armor breakable due to the Iron Crisis, my DD's plate mail is destroyed in the process. Blackguard fortunately has Ankheg plate on.

My shaman goes on hard healing duty. Having a shaman on heals is both a blessing and a curse: you can't heal for big portions at a time (no cure spells), but on the flip side, the regen spells are instant casts. Shaman uses his last remaining second level spell on Regenerate Moderate on my DD, and uses Regenerate Light on remaining party members.

At this point, Blackguard and Monk have retreated due to low health and are waiting to regenerate, meaning the pressure from the remaining bandits is all on my DD who is getting low despite stance and regen. The fight has lasted so long at this point, my DD has to initiate second memorized stance. Wild Mage casts Mirror Image and goes in to tank a few shots to allow DD regen to make him ready. Before this, Wild Mage has used Magic Missile to take care of low trash.

Once my Blackguard and Monk are at 10+ HP, they go back in. The mob up starts. The end result is this:

DD @ 3 hit points
Monk @ 1 hit point
Blackguard @ 4 hit points
Shaman @ 3 hit points
Wild Mage @ 10 hit points

Grunker @ MAX ADRENALINE

Potions used: 1 potion of invulnerability (Blackguard), 1 of Heroism (Dwarven Defender). 1 Extraordinary Healing potion and 4 normal healing potions. Other healing: Regenerate spells from Shaman, Larloch's Minor from protag (evil alignment bhaalspawn power), and my Blackguards drain ability.

God, DavidW, I owe you some of my best video game experiences at this point

A few notes on the new classes:

- Shaman is an OK concept with lackluster execution. Unique spells are not that interesting and the dance sucks major ass.

- Dwarven Defender is really cool though, probably my favourite "modded" kit in the game's history (though Rogue Rebalancing's bard changes compete for the position). It misses out on grandmastery which is huge and is limited to specialization in a few weapons, but the Defensive Stance means Baldur's Gate has its first viable non-mage tank. Theorizing a bit, I'm sure resistance items from BG2 will make him viable even as we get into the late game. So yeah, finally an EE addition that seems worthy and balanced.

 

[Reinhardt]

I just want to protect Aerie from so many bad things that could happen to her.

"But because i'm fag i can't do it without cheats."

 

[Jason Liang]

Bandit Camp was also the highlight of my SCS BG1:EE playthrough.

 

[Colour Spray]

I think people tend to underestimate fighter potions because 10 turns doesn't sound like a lot, but in practice you've either chopped everything up by that point or your cleric failed a death save or something. For instance, you see a lot of people complain that jaheira isn't very good because of the druid exp black hole halfway through SoA, when, being a fighter/druid who can quaff cloud giant strength and heroism whilst also having iron skins active could never be considered a bad use of a character.

There's also that reticence for using anything you don't strictly need to win an encounter in case you need to use it later, too, I suppose. I think I've grown out of that after a few too many games where i hoarded every potion in existence only to find both my characters and the enemies had out-scaled their effect. I prefer just to quaff potions the moment i find them if somebody is injured so i can put off resting for a while longer.

I also enjoyed the gnoll fortress with improved calls for help. It's pretty fun having to deal with a constant stream of gnolls with a level 2/3 party. I think the spiders in cloakwood are a little more interesting because they all dog pile you, too. Interesting party composition. I heard monk and shaman are pretty weak, overall, so I take it you are trying to make things a little more challenging for yourself?

 

[Grunker]

Fighter potions are just insane in BG1, there's no arguing that. A turn is more than enough, and they give fuckhueg bonuses to saves and AC.

 

[Delterius]

It shows that the answer to Magic isn't silly balance. But just more Magic: via items and potions.

Magic for everyone.

 

[Grunker]

Meh, consumables as a bulk necessity are annoying, and it doesn't work the way you describe. At lower levels fighter potions are awesome, but at higher levels they don't really make that much difference and you can't stack them well due to the duration - which, thank God, because having to stack consumables would be really irritating.

I heard monk and shaman are pretty weak, overall, so I take it you are trying to make things a little more challenging for yourself?

Well, yes and no. Monks become quite good in late-late SoA and ToB. Shaman are probably weak throughout.

On the flip side, I am playing with 85 average stats though.

The most difficulty-increasing part of my install besides complete SCS with prebuffing mages and priests is the item randomizer, since I can't be sure to get the most important items. OTOH you may get to see items that you missed on other playthroughs. I am continually baffled at this game still showing me items I didn't know existed on my umpteenth playthrough (I've never read a walkthrough or anything like that).

 

[octavius]

It shows that the answer to Magic isn't silly balance. But just more Magic: via items and potions.

Magic for everyone.

That's the Forgotten Realms, all right.

The most difficulty-increasing part of my install besides complete SCS with prebuffing mages and priests is the item randomizer, since I can't be sure to get the most important items.

For extra fun use Hard Times.
For even more "fun" use Salk's Cursed Items.

 

[Grunker]

I'm a big Hard Times fan in theory but I'm not really a fan of the actual implementation. I would greatly enjoy a mod that simply added its price changes but didn't touch magic items.

 

[Micormic]

I never bothered with the EE's because of all the SJW pandering, are they actually worth buying ? I wasn't the biggest fan of the BG games but I thought they were alright and def worth a playthrough or 2 back in the day.

 

[Grunker]

EE games are not worth it in general. Most of the changes are negative. So far I'd say positives are limited to Dwarven Defender and journal.

However if you want to use the newest mods, EE is pretty much your only way to fly, and fortunately most of the negatives of the EEs are fixed by mods.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

So do you think it's time all the vanilla threads were merged with the EE threads? Gotta say, practically every alert I get for these threads recently has been EE posts & it's kinda wearing.

 

[agris]

I'm a big Hard Times fan in theory but I'm not really a fan of the actual implementation. I would greatly enjoy a mod that simply added its price changes but didn't touch magic items.

IIRC, it's quite easy to modify the Hard Times's .tp2 to remove the stuff you don't want. He commented his code and the changes are done in sections.

The optional Ulcaster School mage is a good example of the mod creator being a classic modder - you had to install Hard Times to install that component, despite the fact there are no dependencies. You can comment out the requirement in the tp2 and install it by itself if you want.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

You rated my point butthurt? FFS, lol.

Here, look at your own post:

However if you want to use the newest mods, EE is pretty much your only way to fly, and fortunately most of the negatives of the EEs are fixed by mods.

So under what circumstances are people going to be posting about Vanilla BG? Baring in mind that anyone who posts about vanilla BG gets bombarded by people who demand they play every mod under the sun... Why the fuck isn't what I said the most important valid point in the past 10 pages LMAO. I mean, if there isn't a better example on the whole site of someone giving a butthurt rating solely because they themselves are butthurt by a post, this would be it. I like you and all, we do actually have remarkably similar tastes in games, but, good god, you are so... full of rage about something? Touchy? Thin skinned?

 

[Grunker]

I'm a big Hard Times fan in theory but I'm not really a fan of the actual implementation. I would greatly enjoy a mod that simply added its price changes but didn't touch magic items.

IIRC, it's quite easy to modify the Hard Times's .tp2 to remove the stuff you don't want. He commented his code and the changes are done in sections.

The optional Ulcaster School mage is a good example of the mod creator being a classic modder - you had to install Hard Times to install that component, despite the fact there are no dependencies. You can comment out the requirement in the tp2 and install it by itself if you want.

I'm already bogged down trying to fix some weird, inexplicable Saving Throw discrepancies in my game, I don't think I want to mess with more editing.

 

[Grunker]

but, good god, you are so... full of rage about something? Touchy? Thin skinned?

Rage..? wut? Don't see what I would be raging about. I just think it's butthurt being so hung up about people not following some kind of made-up thread name rule on the Codex, since it's clearly more about your dislike of EE than it is about anything else. It's already annoying enough that Infinitron has introduced the great unnecessary art of splitting threads to these forums if someone goes mildly off on a tangent, we can make do without also having to agonize over whether it's a problem that someone is replying to a question about vanilla vs. EE BG in a BG-thread.

I mean if you're gonna be mad about someone posting a question about Baldur's Gate in a thread named "The Baldur's Gate Series Thread", you're gonna find life in general to be an uphill battle.

Spoiler

I also dislike EE and view it as a necessary evil for my modding purposes more than anything else, so no, it's not about me defending the EEs

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

it's clearly more about your dislike of EE than it is about anything else.

I'll add my wtf? on top of infinitrons here. I have nothing against the EEs, you wont find me ranting about them anywhere. The fantastically ironic thing about this quote is that its you who is the one who dislikes the EEs:

EE games are not worth it in general. Most of the changes are negative. So far I'd say positives are limited to Dwarven Defender and journal.

However if you want to use the newest mods, EE is pretty much your only way to fly, and fortunately most of the negatives of the EEs are fixed by mods.

So it appears to my eyes like its you who wont post in the EE thread because you're subconsciously still rejecting the fact that, yes, you are indeed playing the EEs now. I don't have any opinion of the EEs as I was still using discs to play my games until around 2017, and by the time I got used to Gog's method of gameplaying I'd already bought BG vanilla on discs through ebay, I'd just never got round to playing/completing them for about for about 4 or 5 years. Heck I didn't even have steam until a coupe of months ago, and even now I have it I can't think of a game on there I'd rather buy there than on gog aside from Slay The Spire (which I'm now bored of anyway). So I have no idea where you ever got the impression that I dislike the EEs to the extent that it somehow motivates my posts in this topic, it is clearly something you've just pulled out your paranoid ass, to which, my questions still stand, but your reply suggests that's more a rabbit hole with unending bollocks as a reply, so I guess I'll just leave them as rhetorical.

 

[Grunker]

I’m posting in this thread because it’s the first thread I found called The Baldur’s Gate Series Thread and I had no idea I would have to listen to your wailing. It isn’t called “Vanilla BG absolutely no fucking EE talk bitches” and if it was, I probably wouldn’t care much and just post in it anyways because this is the Codex. Why does it make you so mad?

 

[Cael]

I’m posting in this thread because it’s the thread I found called The Baldur’s Gate Series Thread. Hey does it make you so mad?

Let's just say that he is well named and leave it at that. OK?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I’m posting in this thread because it’s the first thread I found called The Baldur’s Gate Series Thread and I had no idea I would have to listen to your wailing. It isn’t called “Vanilla BG absolutely no fucking EE talk bitches” and if it was, I probably wouldn’t care much. Why does it make you so mad?

I already wrote why it's a problem, and yet my post replying the same info to a n00b guy who got quickly prospered got loads of brofists and yet, somehow, replying the same info to you is supposed to be me being a butthurt prosper. Fascinating stuff, no really fascinating.

& you are fully aware of the EE thread, it's almost twice as big as this thread and was started and mainly contributed to while you yourself were a freakin' site moderator.

Cut the crap, FFS.

 

[Ninjerk]

It shows that the answer to Magic isn't silly balance. But just more Magic: via items and potions.

Magic for everyone.

 

[laclongquan]

I think people tend to underestimate fighter potions because 10 turns doesn't sound like a lot, but in practice you've either chopped everything up by that point or your cleric failed a death save or something. For instance, you see a lot of people complain that jaheira isn't very good because of the druid exp black hole halfway through SoA, when, being a fighter/druid who can quaff cloud giant strength and heroism whilst also having iron skins active could never be considered a bad use of a character.

There's also that reticence for using anything you don't strictly need to win an encounter in case you need to use it later, too, I suppose. I think I've grown out of that after a few too many games where i hoarded every potion in existence only to find both my characters and the enemies had out-scaled their effect. I prefer just to quaff potions the moment i find them if somebody is injured so i can put off resting for a while longer.

I also enjoyed the gnoll fortress with improved calls for help. It's pretty fun having to deal with a constant stream of gnolls with a level 2/3 party. I think the spiders in cloakwood are a little more interesting because they all dog pile you, too. Interesting party composition. I heard monk and shaman are pretty weak, overall, so I take it you are trying to make things a little more challenging for yourself?

A slight side note here but Icewind Dale2 seem to make potions much worse than actual spell. So I end up using spells and not that much buff potions thanks to that inferiority.
Example:
Best strength potion is an unpronounceable potions you buy on the dock which give a +3 strength for 3 hour but slow poison. A very fair trade at that point and later because you need to get to level4or5 before you have enough spell slot and power to better that. But once you got that, you dont bother with other strength potions any more.
You probabbly use barkskin or prot evil potions were it more prevalent. But they are not so we dont.
The health potions however get constant use because your cleric dont have that much spare spell slots for cure. We still find many, but I find that I have to buy tens or more of each type of healing potions.

Conclusion? To make more use of potions, they should provide more and better benefits than spell because they are more expensive than the other (free).

 

[Cael]

A slight side note here but Icewind Dale2 seem to make potions much worse than actual spell. So I end up using spells and not that much buff potions thanks to that inferiority.
Example:
Best strength potion is an unpronounceable potions you buy on the dock which give a +3 strength for 3 hour but slow poison. A very fair trade at that point and later because you need to get to level4or5 before you have enough spell slot and power to better that. But once you got that, you dont bother with other strength potions any more.
You probabbly use barkskin or prot evil potions were it more prevalent. But they are not so we dont.
The health potions however get constant use because your cleric dont have that much spare spell slots for cure. We still find many, but I find that I have to buy tens or more of each type of healing potions.

Conclusion? To make more use of potions, they should provide more and better benefits than spell because they are more expensive than the other (free).

The problem with health pots is that you have HP in the double, even triple figures. A health pot gives you back 9.

To be fair, though, I never bothered with pots in any of the IE games or IWD2. That is probably because I love caster heavy parties, so tend to have massive number of spell slots handy across the party.