Dzupakazul
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2015
- Messages
- 707
No, there aren't. The only character that I pointed to for being changed through a mod is Shapeshifter. Unless your argument right now is that BG2 kits in BG1 are themselves an effect of a mod, or perhaps take offense to the tangent about SCS mages, but the truth about Assassins is that they're simply plain good against mages in general.
Your experiences specifically come from a background of "I never bothered to try those other things because they're bad" by your own admission, even though from an objective standpoint they are questionable.
Even looking at pretty much all kits from Paladin (which range from "extremely useful bonuses and immunities to multiple things that come at an absolutely non-existent or negligible drawback (Cavalier, Undead Hunter)" to "fairly broad disadvantages that are entirely counterweighed by their special abilities that just so happen to trivialize a huge portion of both games" (Inquisitor) or Cleric (two new innate spells per alignment, and you get ZERO drawback from picking one of them), and then there's the issue that you named Druids as having bad kits (when two of them are objective gamebreakers in BG1 and the third one isn't even bad in BG1, and the drawbacks for each are almost non-existent).
Totemic Druids lose absolutely NOTHiNG (who the hell uses vanilla shapeshift abilities??) and pick up an insanely tanky summon that, as noted before, had the distinction of being immune to normal weapons in the old versions of TuTu/BGT and still packs massive power from level 1 in the modern conversions, including the EE.
I'm curious now: are you also a proponent of vanilla bards?
Awesome. You do you. Except using a poison ability that is capped at one natural attack per round and requires specific weaponry to truly synergize with in BG1 is hardly an exploit, especially when compared to other things thieves can do in BG1 that they couldn't before (like setting traps before combat). Secondly, BG1 throws so much Thief junk at you (magic items and consumables, but also, like, seven other Thief NPCs) that you're absolutely never strapped for thieving skills, and they come at a soft cap beyond which there is no point to raising them further, so an Assassin is hardly debilitated. Your feelings on exploits do not matter when the question asked is whether vanilla classes are better or not, which they, most of the time, absolutely aren't; we're talking rules as written and not your own preconceived notions on what an exploit is. You're okay with Berserkers, for crying out loud.
Again, you're trying to pick holes at my argument even though they're entirely addressed within the post (I made one (1) admission about mods changing one (1) class as a trivial addendum, and still added a caveat that it hardly impacts the kit's power level in BG1, because Shapeshifter Werewolves actually have good stats for BG1 standards, ergo they're a good kit there).
Anyway, point is, I actually spelled out the numerous uses for kits you consider bad, and right now I also pointed out to you that receiving an overpowered summon you can use to solo entire areas in return for giving up a bunch of shapeshifts no one uses is gamechanging, and I'm waiting for at least a refutation of that argument before you tell me more about what you think and believe in.
The only reason to not bother with certain kits has already been disclosed - because they're majorly powercrept on by duals from mainstay powerhouses (Berserker/Kensai, basically) and multis. On their own, however, they are very rarely not a straight upgrade.
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You can achieve a similar effect with Bows, by the way; you lose 1 APR but have better overall damage and easier itemization, this is especially good on Elf Assassins because they have -1 THAC0 with bows. Show me where in the rules does it say that missiles can't be poisoned, or explain how a single-class Thief using a bow is somehow a powergaming character.
