Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Jedi Master Radek]

The fourth time I killed them all without any major losses

Sorry my fallen comrade, but for the good of the team and it's reputation we decided to qualify your death as a minor loss. I hope you understand.

 

[Dzupakazul]

I feel like Bards are slightly undervalued in BG.

They are, mostly due to community emphasis on their vanilla bard song and the perceptions surrounding the likes of Garrick. They're an excellent support character for any sort of team due to reasons you mentioned, Pandemonium Harp makes for a great source of extra crowd control that enemies generally do not resist, UAI + Spike Traps keep any kit relevant, and Skald or Enhanced Bard Song are a fantastic force multiplier in parties with 3 or more Fighters.

Bards have always been good. It's just this mentality of "jack of all trades, master of none" is misapplied to a class that puts most of its eggs into the very strong arcane spellcasting basket (which it is very good at; most of the relevant tanking spells come at spell level 6) and doesn't hold water anyway when you consider most of the strongest combos in the game are hybrids. No one's shitting on a fighter/mage for being too generalist. About the only weakness of the Bard is the relatively limited, low damage output compared to other classes, but they still make for fine solos in spite of that since this game isn't much of a DPS race.

 

[Kliwer]

I play a lot with Garrick in my team. He is completely functional. In BG1, little things like pickpocketing (a thief on low levels has no place for it) or high knowledge are more important.

In my current installation, I have added kits to many BG1 NPCs. I made Garrick a jester - and he works even better.

 

[Nano]

Bards are hated because they're outright inferior in most respects to the Fighter/Mage and Mage/Thief (with the exception of slower leveling, but the difference isn't that big for dual-classes). You get less spell slots and lose out on level 7+ spells and for what, the Bard Song and a better Lore value? It's just pointless.

The reason for this is two-fold though, BW seemingly hated Bards with how they completely screwed up their implementation, and the multiclasses are really just obscenely overpowered.

 

[Alrik]

Nano and all the others-

I’ve beaten BG2 with and without SCS more times than I can count, but I’ve always used the shield of balduran for the unseeing eye. How does one get through all the beholders, at a level appropriate power level, without the shield? And without cheesy PfM scrolls / potions, and MR potions.

Ive always thought the shield was added to BG2 specifically to address this area. Is there an actual non-cheese way to deal with the beholders?

I abandoned my last SCS run in the Underdark. I cleared out the Beholders, but it was by far the most difficult fight I've done in any RPG and I got burned out by the experience so I dropped the game after carelessly losing to the Drow ambush at the bridge. I don't recall my exact install, but I'm pretty sure I installed all the tougher/PnP versions of monsters and I definitely installed the "Beholders steal the Shield of Balduran" and "Beholders burn through spell turning/deflection" components. SCS not only significantly increases the difficulty of the Beholder Lair but making each type of Beholder more powerful, but also has more Elder Orbs and Hive Mothers than vanilla. But that wasn't the worst part, the worst part is that whenever you encounter one group of Beholders (aside from the one at the entrance) a chain reaction sets off and the entire hive comes after you at once and due to the map design there are no chokepoints to be had so they will attack you from all directions. Buffing? Doesn't work, everything instantly dispelled. Buffing Viconia's MR to the highest you can get? Only got to ~90% which allows her to survive for ~20-30s at best, which isn't nearly enough to mow down 20+ Beholders even with Improved Haste, dual wielding and all the OP Cleric buffs. IIRC I pulled through by stacking tons of Stinking Clouds (Beholders are immune to the superior Web since they levitate) and Cloudkills while doing MMM skirmishes. In the end only two party members survived but none were permakilled (on my nth attempt). Funnily enough one of their attacks was counterproductive, it stunned you for an eternity but also blew you to the other end of the map which meant that the character was at least put out of harm's way.

You indicated you're not so that's the problem. Without SCS all you need is one mage, one cleric, and four guys hacking everything to death. With SCS enemy mages use contingencies, spell triggers, CC, spell defenses, dispel your defenses, precast defensive spells (can be tweaked several ways), and use high level abilities. Basically everything you can do the AI does too. Not to mention the changes to liches, demons, vampires, mind flayers, and other monsters. Overall a much more satisfying experience.

What made the SCS mage fights the most difficult for me was that they almost always had a significant caster level advantage. I'm not talking about the few extra damage dice or even the high level spells, but the fact that Remove Magic (RM/DM are the only spells that can take down spell protections on an invisible caster) works on level difference so they will dispel everything you have with a single cast of a level 3 spell but you can't dispel any of their buffs with the same method and need to peel them off one by one (and rely on Jan's extremely unreliable "100%" Detect Illusion to get rid of their invisibility so you can actually target them). It does get a little better when you get Spell Immunity, but you still need to choose between Divination (protects against everything but DM/RM) and Abjuration (protects against DM/RM but gets taken down by the conventional counterspells). But that works both ways and since the designers knew the enemies would have caster level advantage they all pick SI:Divination since your Remove Magic doesn't do shit to them (which is why you need to use the buggy Detect Illusion skill). I guess I should've used Keldorn (though I think SCS significantly nerfs Inquisitors' dispel).

Jhor the Bleeder helps a lot though, getting in even one hit before their contingency reapplies the full protection battery puts them in insect plague mode. They might be protected, but they can no longer cast spells.

Don't let SCS filter you! Not going to lie the highest levels of SCS are not fun. It's best to set the difficulty in the middle on all options. I've played SCS on max, and it gets tedious as hell about the time Irenicus drags you to hell. Also you need to understand that a SCS install requires at least 3 mages in your party - PC, Edwin, and a scrub. Maybe 2 scrubs. There is reason Berserker or Kensai/Mages are considered the most OP charname. My favorite SCS party is probably Berserker 9/Mage, Edwin, Jan, Jaheria, Viconia, Korgan. You can flip out Jaheria/Viconia for Aerie or Jan for Nalia/Imoen to get more arcane power.

Pretty sure I've finished a full SCS run many, many years ago though not entirely certain if I'm being honest. I know I've finished the BG1 part of the run at least 3-4 times, but I can remember getting bored at different points in BG2 for a few of them.

My mistake on this one was being purposely too underleveled since I saved a lot of the chapter 2 quests for chapter 5 because I wanted to see how they were at the top of the level scaling and didn't want to be overleveled for chapters 3 and 4 (and didn't want Imoen to lag too far behind). Only did TG, de'Arnise Hold and Trademeet IIRC. And I didn't actually mean to abandon it, just felt like taking a break. But in that period I bought a new gaming PC and that save is on my old toaster laptop. I've meant to get back to it, but haven't found the energy to figure out how to properly transfer a full BGT install between computers.

Re: arcane casters I'm fully aware. Everyone in my BG2 party was an arcane caster (with the assistance of some editing liberties because I prefer written companions over PCNPCs); MC was a multiclass F/M (have done the Berseker dual too many times), Viconia edited to M/C since I wanted one in BG1, Aerie, Jan and then Imoen from Spellhold. BG1 party was MC, Imoen, Viconia (M/C), Shar-Teel (F3->T), Xzar and Edwin (Xzar and Edwin dropped when I got to Baldur's Gate as they turned out to be superfluous).

 

[Dzupakazul]

Bards are hated because they're outright inferior in most respects to the Fighter/Mage and Mage/Thief (with the exception of slower leveling, but the difference isn't that big for dual-classes). You get less spell slots and lose out on level 7+ spells and for what, the Bard Song and a better Lore value? It's just pointless.

Higher spellcaster level (10d6 Fireballs in BG1, 20d6 Skull Traps before anyone else in BG2), good kits across the board, Enhanced Bard Song is huge for big physical parties (you benefit more from an EBS Bard singing for three Fighters than you do with adding a fourth Fighter, pound for pound). Bards even slightly edge out other mage tanking NPCs (especially Haer'dalis does with Defensive Spin) due to generally getting access to more layers of Stoneskin thanks to faster levelling. High level Remove Magic, utility items.

Also look at available NPCs; there are no F/Ms, multiple duals from Thief to Mage (so mostly single-classed Mages with token thieving ability, just enough to get by with locks and traps) and an Illusionist/Thief. Haer'dalis is an evergreen choice for pretty much any party. "Being a weaker Fighter/Mage" is still a solid A-tier class whereas a lot people seem to believe Bard is total dead weight.

I play a lot with Garrick in my team. He is completely functional.

Yeah he is, but the initial perception is always that he's a guy with no spells (at level 1), a song with a hard to measure benefit (especially in original BG1 TotSC), low HP, bad stats, no helmet, no weapon specialization. Having a guy who can use bows (and their arrows) AND cast AND use wands occupy one party slot is very nice, though.

 

[Fenix]

I feel like Bards are slightly undervalued in BG. One of the benefits of the class, which may not be immediate, is that they are magic-users with a thiefs experience table.

Well, that one guy, who plays BG2 on Ironman, won once with Blade class only lol...

 

[Cael]

Garrick's biggest problem is that he has the highest morale break of all the NPCs. He is the one most likely to flee in combat. Someone pings him with an arrow and you're down a party member for that combat.

 

[Fenix]

I'm a lover bard, not a fighter! (c)

 

[laclongquan]

Bard is very useful in dialog, quest etc outside of combat. In a general RPG, they have utility. Speech and Charisma bonus help great deal. Pickpocket helps when you dont want rogue/thief in your party. Lore bonus help in case of no wizard etc...

It's combat-only RPG that illustrate their weak points. Anything with combat of hard diff and upward fuck Bard doggy style~

 

[Dzupakazul]

It's combat-only RPG that illustrate their weak points. Anything with combat of hard diff and upward fuck Bard doggy style~

Don't see where this comes from. None of the stated pros of Bards in this thread have anything to do with non-combat roles but focus on their combat ability, which is formidable. Icewind Dale, a game not exactly renowned for its non-combat activities, welcomes Bard into any party with open arms. Neverwinter Nights has powerbuilds reliant on a Bard chassis that work very well in grindy modules.

 

[laclongquan]

Any difficulty under Hard, sure. And a great veteran can make use of Bard in Hard and Impossible, fully aware that they are crippling their own party with a Bard instead of a wizard, sorcerer, rogue, etc... You can make use of Bard, doesnt mean we accept that Bard are comparable in term of firepower~

And obviously we are talking IWD1 and 2 here.

 

[Lilura]

In addition, Cleric is a complete waste because BG2 combat encounter design doesn't require their staying power.

Typical Codex shitposter. The number one authoritative source of knowledge on all matters SCS (only including select components and playing the game on Core Rules) says that "At the end of the day Aerie is probably the most powerful companion in the campaign. Not even Jan and Jaheira are on her level. This is due to her having access to both arcane and divine spheres of spellcasting." Now that companion takes extra 3,000,000 XP to get level 9 spells and lags behind on spell progression behind mediocre NPCs like Edwin and Nalia, but Cleric spells are clearly worth it, otherwise they would not have been mentioned in an authoritative SCS playthrough that shows every fight is designed the same way through slamming multiple sources of AoE at the same time outside of the enemy's visual range.

Sorry but I prefer actual authoritative blogs instead of Codex shitposters. Xvarts from here never taught me how to stack THAC0 over the soft cap on a physical character, overkilling it by -20 points and get the effect of the Critical Strike HLA wrong.

Did I step on your dick with my blog, Dzupakazul ?

 

[Cael]

It's combat-only RPG that illustrate their weak points. Anything with combat of hard diff and upward fuck Bard doggy style~

Don't see where this comes from. None of the stated pros of Bards in this thread have anything to do with non-combat roles but focus on their combat ability, which is formidable. Icewind Dale, a game not exactly renowned for its non-combat activities, welcomes Bard into any party with open arms. Neverwinter Nights has powerbuilds reliant on a Bard chassis that work very well in grindy modules.

In IWD2, Bard is probably one of the classes you'd want in any party due to a combination of diplomacy skills, high charisma, not refusing rewards (bloody paladins and monks), buff spells and the hilariously broken Song of the Sith (which was actually NERFED from the IWD version...!).

 

[Dzupakazul]

Any difficulty under Hard, sure. And a great veteran can make use of Bard in Hard and Impossible, fully aware that they are crippling their own party with a Bard instead of a wizard, sorcerer, rogue, etc... You can make use of Bard, doesnt mean we accept that Bard are comparable in term of firepower~

And obviously we are talking IWD1 and 2 here.

I'd take Bard over Thief/Rogue or Mage/Wizard in IWD1 and IWD2 handily. Bard Song is stronger than IWD2's crummy, gimmicky backstab; you don't need high investment in a full Rogue class to be able to deal with traps and the like, either. Wizards don't provide the same amount of buffs and, in particular, a pure Mage in IWD1 struggles with scroll access while a Bard just puts on trash and plink-plonks away, supporting the rest of the party.

Bard is not a crippled choice. Bard is, at its best, a weaker Fighter/Mage, a.k.a. the best combo in the game. Bard is a mainstay in my Heart of Fury parties.

Did I step on your dick with my blog, Dzupakazul ?

All I pointed out was that you contradict yourself with your own posts (your own SCS commentary, the one you brought up yourself in the context of talking about SCS, says Aerie is the best due to divine and arcane magic, post on Codex says Clerics aren't relevant), your writings on powergaming are redundant (the THAC0 article is, at best, a thought exercise, because the lowest AC you will ever have to strike is nowhere close to the -44 you are showing is possible - I think the lowest would be something like Yaga-Shura's value of -24 actually -21 - and yet your math, in spite of including buffs, still doesn't include handily available sources of extra THAC0 - any character can have their THAC0 values expanded by a huge amount by Champion's Strength. In fact, Archer can self-cast Champion's Strength from a scroll with little loss whatsoever, which was omitted entirely even without factoring in the spell's ability to stack, without which the spell is still an easy +3 bonus.

Critical Strike HLA has never allowed for critical failure - every attack made with Critical Strike is set to a roll of 20, in effect. (I believe the Opcode in question is 301.) Tested on vanilla BG2 and BG2EE. This is worth correcting.

Your WeiDu install appears to be more or less equal to what DavidW currently classifies as a "Tactical" install thanks to the way the new SCS slider works. You claimed in another post that you "destroyed" DavidW's mod when you are presumedly playing on a setting that's lower than his preferred one ("Hardcore" according to SCS v32).

There are other authors and content creators (primarily forum posters and one fairly prominent Twitch streamer) whose SCS commentary either cranks the difficulty slider higher or explores the game in broader parties than a full Arcane group casting spells on enemies offscreen, so I prefer to follow them for discussing and grokking BG2 gameplay, especially since they express their views in a much less inflammatory way.

 

[Lilura]

All I pointed out was that you contradict yourself with your own posts (your own SCS commentary, the one you brought up yourself in the context of talking about SCS, says Aerie is the best due to divine and arcane magic, post on Codex says Clerics aren't relevant),

That remark pertained to an SCS install. The guy I responded to ITT wasn't talking about SCS.

your writings on powergaming are redundant

No, they aren't. Some of them are first-ranked on Google for a reason. Eventually, all of them will be. I guarantee it.

(the THAC0 article is, at best, a thought exercise, because the lowest AC you will ever have to strike is nowhere close to the -44 you are showing is possible - I think the lowest would be something like Yaga-Shura's value of -24 -

How is it merely a thought exercise when it explains THAC0, shows its progression, gives examples, shows its deadzones, shows how it is bettered etc.?

and yet your math, in spite of including buffs, still doesn't include handily available sources of extra THAC0 - any character can have their THAC0 values expanded by a huge amount by Champion's Strength. In fact, Archer can self-cast Champion's Strength from a scroll with little loss whatsoever, which was omitted entirely even without factoring in the spell's ability to stack, without which the spell is still an easy +3 bonus.

Stacking is an exploit, though. But yes, I didn't add in Champion's Strength. Wow. That makes me a shitposter...

Critical Strike HLA has never allowed for critical failure - every attack made with Critical Strike is set to a roll of 20, in effect. Tested on vanilla BG2 and BG2EE. This is worth correcting.

Where did I write that? Not saying I didn't make an error, but where is it written?

Your WeiDu install appears to be more or less equal to what DavidW currently classifies as a "Tactical" install thanks to the way the new SCS slider works. You claimed in another post that you "destroyed" DavidW's mod when you are presumedly playing on a setting that's lower than his preferred one ("Hardcore" according to SCS v32).

And I clearly said I use v30, and that I always play on Core rules.

There are other authors and content creators (primarily forum posters and one fairly prominent Twitch streamer) whose SCS commentary either cranks the difficulty slider higher or explores the game in broader parties than a full Arcane group casting spells on enemies offscreen, so I prefer to follow them for discussing and grokking BG2 gameplay, especially since they express their views in a much less inflammatory way.

I only cast spells off-screen on one encounter (the Beholder one, I think). And I explained why that isn't an exploit in SCS.

My commentary isn't to be followed... I have no followers. What I do is inform, and garner non-trivial viewership on my power-gaming write-ups. Like I said, numero uno ranked on several, yet with no backlinks/spam. It's pure Google indexing, hard-yards ranking. You don't get that by writing shit.

I'm not going to do multiple SCS write-ups either, just to show how warriors and rogues work in SCS. Fucking boring. I cover more than just SCS, more than BG2. I'm covering a whole era of RPGs.

And where was I inflammatory in my formal SCS commentary?

 

[laclongquan]

Oh, Bard songs are useable only IF you exploit the stacking bard songs bug. You have to micromanage bard songs and other activities to make use of it and the bug allow bards to be half way useable.

Drop the bug and Bard is a real cripple in combat. As a ranged shooter, Bard is barely keeping up with Rogue, but weaker than Fighter mix BUT they lose in term of utility (rogue can scout real well) or overall fighting aspect (HP, armor, BAB). As a caster they lose to sorcerer and wizard in both firepower and versality. And while the combi of ranged shooter and caster help their useability in lower difficulty, in higher one Bard just suck.

I love Bard as a RPG element, make them PC diplomat whenever I can. Doesnt mean I am blind to their ability in hard combat.

 

[Dzupakazul]

That remark pertained to an SCS install. The guy I responded to ITT wasn't talking about SCS.

I would insist SCS doesn't change the fact that speedy spell progression is a massive boon to any character. Priests historically struggled in SCS installs. Most recent versions of SCS incorporate IWD priest spells specifically to counter a problem Priest spells face - lack of answer to dispels in the vanilla game. No one in the vanilla game dispels with enough voracity to make this a problem, but that doesn't also mean Aerie isn't lagging behind someone like Edwin when it comes to acquiring powerful milestones such as access to the first Planetar or first dibs on Ust'Natha scrolls (or even, if lucky, random pickpockets from random treasure tables), which are arguably more relevant than mid-tier C/M spell combinations.

No, they aren't. Some of them are first-ranked on Google for a reason. Eventually, all of them will be. I guarantee it.

Depends on keywords input - most of the time my own google searches find discussions from old forums on the subjects sooner than articles on your blog. What I mean by redundancy is also that I don't exactly see the point of many of them. The toplist of Infinity Engine axes isn't very useful because I don't see why I would need to know whether a BG2 axe is more powerful than an IWD1 one, and the top axe in the series can't be used by the game's premier axe user, Korgan. Without broader context, it feels like a filler article.

A lot of that perception might simply be the fact that I also, through my own - hope you can agree, veteran - experience simply disagree with many of your articles, such as the finer points of the F/M vs F->M multi vs dual class.

How is it merely a thought exercise when it explains THAC0, shows its progression, gives examples, shows its deadzones, shows how it is bettered etc.?

The issue here that there is no reason to bring up a value of -44 THAC0 other than curiosity because it's sheer overkill. ToB's head honcho in terms of Armor Class, I believe, is Yaga-Shura (-21). Not even in the Enhanced Edition's Legacy of Bhaal mode with its flat -11 AC boost to every enemy would you require -44 THAC0 to hit him. The article goes the correct route earlier by pointing out that a BG1 "THAC0lord" would be able to hit Drizzt at a roll of 7, but it makes no mention of relevant BG2 threats, like dragons (around -12 AC modified, give or take), ToB bosses (high teens with Yaga-Shura at the head, not Abazigal (-15 modified) as the line "we want our THAC0 lord around for when we face off against big, tanky AC lords, culminating in Abazigal." seems to imply) and so on, so a lot of those stats simply go to waste.

Stacking is an exploit, though.

Aye, but without it, +3 is still +3.

Where did I write that? Not saying I didn't make an error, but where is it written?

"Give this character a long-range target and she will hit it right between the eyes. Still, it's a 5% chance of a critical miss - even with Critical Strike." Fourth paragraph from the end of the THAC0 lord article.

And I clearly said I use v30, and that I always play on Core rules.

Which is fine - but it does mean that someone with a more current install and a more harder setting might make a more compelling writeup or commentary.

I only cast spells off-screen on one encounter (the Beholder one, I think). And I explained why that isn't an exploit in SCS.

Perceptions of what consists as an exploit and what does not are, luckily, very subjective. I just find the way you dealt with that particular encounter unsatisfactory, and I thought your general disposition towards SCS (which seems to amount to "it doesn't make the game a more tactical experience because my setup has specific holes left in that I keep blowing through over and over again with the same tactic") is not very representative of the ways the mod challenges different tactics.

I cover more than just SCS, more than BG2. I'm covering a whole era of RPGs.

It is admirable, but it does not invalidate that there are more informative sources on BG2 specifically. It sort of reinforces it, even - there's no way to be an expert at everything.

And where was I inflammatory in my formal SCS commentary?

You aren't, but you are quite inflammatory on the forums, which you, in turn, also keep linking your articles to, yet often scoff at attempts to engage with them.

Oh, Bard songs are useable only IF you exploit the stacking bard songs bug.

Not at all. My preferred steamroll composition includes a Bard that doesn't use any exploits and isn't even particularly micromanaged, spending most of its time just providing blanket buffs just because it increases overall output at very little management needed. It's also a very survivable class due to arcane spellcasting. I would fully disclose if I was talking about abusing bugs to achieve results. IWD1 facilitates a Bard by making powergaming revolve around Fighter multi- and dual-classes, which Bard supports excellently. IWD2 facilitates a Bard by making all casters pretty much the best. Suggesting a Bard - a caster with a plethora of buffs, non-combat utility, and a skill floor of "fire song and forget" - is inferior to a Rogue when IWD2's weird restrictions on backstabbing are in place, and the strongest fighting characters are STILL caster hybrids (namely battleclerics) is not something that I can agree with. Scouting? Any character with an Invisibility spell, including the excellent Deep Gnome with its racials, can facilitate that.

 

[Lilura]

I would insist SCS doesn't change the fact that speedy spell progression is a massive boon to any character. Priests historically struggled in SCS installs. Most recent versions of SCS incorporate IWD priest spells specifically to counter a problem Priest spells face - lack of answer to dispels in the vanilla game. No one in the vanilla game dispels with enough voracity to make this a problem, but that doesn't also mean Aerie isn't lagging behind someone like Edwin when it comes to acquiring powerful milestones such as access to the first Planetar or first dibs on Ust'Natha scrolls (or even, if lucky, random pickpockets from random treasure tables), which are arguably more relevant than mid-tier C/M spell combinations.

As is your proclivity, you've gone off on a tangent. The guy I was responding to was referring to "ultimate god-mode" in vanilla BG2. In vanilla BG2, adding the divine to the arcane is not ultimate god-mode due to its cakewalk combat encounter design that does not demand staying power as exemplified in SCS Sendai; it's weakening power-progession.

Depends on keywords input - most of the time my own google searches find discussions from old forums on the subjects sooner than articles on your blog.

I'm flattered that you'd compare my blog's Google indexing and ranking with monetized sites that benefit from an army of commentators and forum-going contributors. I've often thought, if only I could self-replicate in order to multiply my output by an order of magnitude...

Without broader context, it feels like a filler article.

Those are posted for my own amusement and SEO agenda. There are only a few of those. You are not being even-handed; you're cherry-picking.

A lot of that perception might simply be the fact that I also, through my own - hope you can agree, veteran - experience simply disagree with many of your articles, such as the finer points of the F/M vs F->M multi vs dual class.

No, I won't acknowledge you as a veteran of the game since you don't acknowledge my veteran-status; indeed, you go so far as to call me "a shitposter".

But that's not the real reason. The real reason is that honoring another debases oneself.

The issue here that there is no reason to bring up a value of -44 THAC0 other than curiosity because it's sheer overkill. ToB's head honcho in terms of Armor Class, I believe, is Yaga-Shura (-21). Not even in the Enhanced Edition's Legacy of Bhaal mode with its flat -11 AC boost to every enemy would you require -44 THAC0 to hit him. The article goes the correct route earlier by pointing out that a BG1 "THAC0lord" would be able to hit Drizzt at a roll of 7, but it makes no mention of relevant BG2 threats, like dragons (around -12 AC modified, give or take), ToB bosses (high teens with Yaga-Shura at the head, not Abazigal (-15 modified) as the line "we want our THAC0 lord around for when we face off against big, tanky AC lords, culminating in Abazigal." seems to imply) and so on, so a lot of those stats simply go to waste.

Must I repeat myself? That does not constitute the entire post. There is a lot of info in there about THAC0 in general.

Aye, but without it, +3 is still +3.

When one admits an inadequeacy -- and a minor omission at that -- and the other responds with a "gotcha" comment, it doesn't show much in the way of good-will.

Which I understand. I have generated inordinate amounts of butthurt in the communities of the RPGs I cover. I've got people hating on me and my commentary from reddit to the Codex, and on sites I've never posted on. Thus, do I look forward to the buttmadness that is going to flow when I pick up the pace of my warpath.

Which is fine - but it does mean that someone with a more current install and a more harder setting might make a more compelling writeup or commentary.

Maybe. But the thing is, I don't give a shit. BG2 isn't the genre, much less SCS. It's small-time stuff in the grand scheme of the genre, and neither is universally respected by the most prestigious of RPG veterans.

Perceptions of what consists as an exploit and what does not are, luckily, very subjective. I just find the way you dealt with that particular encounter unsatisfactory, and I thought your general disposition towards SCS (which seems to amount to "it doesn't make the game a more tactical experience because my setup has specific holes left in that I keep blowing through over and over again with the same tactic") is not very representative of the ways the mod challenges different tactics.

It is true that I brute-forced aspects of the run and didn't dig into many of the nuances. Admittedly, I don't find SCS or BG2 particularly compelling. Indeed, while I'm a veteran of the IE games, my coverage of them is naught but a means to an end.

It is admirable, but it does not invalidate that there are more informative sources on BG2 specifically. It sort of reinforces it, even - there's no way to be an expert at everything.

I'm expert enough on BG2. And as it pertains to my era, I'm no.1 in the formal sphere. No one has covered the tactical RPGs to the degree that I have, and I'm nowhere near burnout.

You aren't, but you are quite inflammatory on the forums, which you, in turn, also keep linking your articles to, yet often scoff at attempts to engage with them.

In general, I respond to posters in the same manner as they address me -- dismissively. Though I tend not to employ vulgarities as much as they do.

 

[Dzupakazul]

As is your proclivity, you've gone off on a tangent. The guy I was responding to was referring to "ultimate god-mode" in vanilla BG2. In vanilla BG2, adding the divine to the arcane is not ultimate god-mode due to its cakewalk combat encounter design that does not demand staying power as exemplified in SCS Sendai; it's weakening power-progession.

Neither is it in SCS. You are rating Aerie, Jaheira and Jan over, evidently, pure arcane casters. Your other writings such as the F/M vs F->M completely brushes over the prominently delayed level 9 power spike (6,000,000 XP vs 3,500,000 XP in case of a multi vs dual) and focusing on the 8,000,000 XP threshold in spite of now claiming that the easiest way to steamroll the BG2 campaign is with speeding up your caster progression as soon as possible. You aren't consistent in your beliefs of what is strong. Your beliefs that divine spells provide extreme staying power that is necessary for SCS are also dubious when a full arcane party benefits the least from this, as every single one of your party members achieves on-demand damage immunity, and usually is not at risk that necessitates the Cleric barriers. Again, with your playstyle of demolishing everything with AoE, it's hard to see what Aerie actually brings to the party composition.

I'm flattered that you'd compare my blog's Google indexing and ranking with monetized sites that benefit from an army of commentators and forum-going contributors.

This includes threads that have not been bumped since 2005 and blogs such as PlayItHardcore.

Those are posted for my own amusement and SEO agenda. There are only a few of those. You are not being even-handed; you're cherry-picking.

With all your pride in being prolific without spamlinking (you do eclipse a lot of discussion on the basis that it was referred to on your blog) you are now acknowledging that the article doesn't do anything except inflate your prominence on the web.

No, I won't acknowledge you as a veteran of the game since you don't acknowledge my veteran-status; indeed, you go so far as to call me "a shitposter".

A maneuver from your own book of deflection, admittedly, as you've deflected people's well-founded opinions on your content by calling them shitposters. You naturally change your tone of response to replies depending on whether they are made on the Codex or on your own blog.

I'm expert enough on BG2.

You are decent at it.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Also you need to understand that a SCS install requires at least 3 mages in your party

This is completely untrue. One full mage + additional mage (e.g. a bard) is more than enough. We have tons of options to deal with enemies: items, potions, scrolls, clerical spells, inquisitor, summons. There are tons of ways to make a good team.

I'm playing BGT with SCS and SR at the moment. In addition, I have some quest mods, but also quite significantly reduced experience received (75% for quests, 50% for killed enemies, no experience for disarming traps and learning spells). My party:

- dwarf, fighter-cleric
-Jaheira, fighter-druid
-Minsc - in my installation I made him a barbarian
-Valygar - stalker
-Jan Jansen, thief-illusionist
-Xan (mod NPC), enchanter.

The game is delicious. Of course, some fights are quite difficult (I had a lot of problems with Firkraag). But others are a matter of developing a good strategy. I fought the Twisted Rune 4 times (team at levels 10-12 - after going through the entire 2nd Chapter). The first time I was terribly massacred, I didn't kill anyone. I won the third time, but I only had 2 characters alive. The fourth time I killed them all without any major losses.

The balance of the game breaks down, but only in ToB. All SoA is well balanced. The last time I was playing with a similar installation, the only SoA fight I didn't win was the Demogorgon. This devil is extremely difficult, but: a) it has to be like that, after all, he is the prince of hell, whom the gods themselves were afraid of b) you don't have to fight him to finish the quest.
I wonder if I can slay him this time.

OK "requires" 3 mages might be a bit strong but it makes it much easier.

Two points:
1) You have obviously played a lot of SCS and know the ins and outs. For someone playing it the first time 3 or more mages makes it much easier.
2) I'm not sure anyone should be taking advice from someone who installs NPC mods.

 

[ga♥]

Conjurer isn't necessarily the best, certainly not in BG1. It's an easy choice recommended for most new players since Conjurers give up the least amount of spells while retaining the specialist slots, but in BG1 an Enchanter only loses out on Evocation spells which aren't all that important. The +2 DC to Enchantment spells that Enchanters get in BG is way stronger than anything a Conjurer will bring to the table.

What about giving up magic missle and fireball, is the +2 worth it?

 

[ga♥]

I find that the fabled Mage duels are a bit over hyped.

Are you playing with SCS?

You indicated you're not so that's the problem. Without SCS all you need is one mage, one cleric, and four guys hacking everything to death. With SCS enemy mages use contingencies, spell triggers, CC, spell defenses, dispel your defenses, precast defensive spells (can be tweaked several ways), and use high level abilities. Basically everything you can do the AI does too. Not to mention the changes to liches, demons, vampires, mind flayers, and other monsters. Overall a much more satisfying experience.

Some day, perhaps. I'm not going to do my first full run with mods, especially anything that changes gameplay so drastically, although one might argue that EE already does that. Less so for BG2, but still.

People say that, but it doesn't add anything new to the game. If bioware could properly code AI then SCS would not be needed.

Not to the base game, but in ToB it changes quit a bit how Abizagail dungeon is, adding content (NOT good content).

 

[Dzupakazul]

What about giving up magic missle and fireball, is the +2 worth it?

Both are replicable with wands and other spells; Skull Trap is basically Fireball that's less resisted (a double edged sword somewhat since it doesn't let your buffed melees bathe in fire; you can stack a few of them as a trap) and has actual scaling into BG2 levels (Fireball caps at 10d6, Skull Trap goes to 20d6). Also, BG1 can be rather physical-favored, so an Enchanter acting as support for a band of archers and warriors through charms and disablers is neat. The +2 is, more or less, an extra 10% chance your saving throw forcing spell (Sleep, Dire Charm, Hold Person, Emotion) will work. Scroll of Enchanter Finger of Death (a.k.a. Feeblemind) could be a boon too.

Personally I think the biggest loss for an Enchanter in BG1 would be Web, particularly strong due to how easy it is to yoink Dushai's Ring of Free Action, but they can also get by with Horror in their level 2 slots as well. BG2 Enchanters have it worse with no Enchantments beyond spell level 5 and lack of access to Sequencers, so the bottom line is to probably give Xan a chance.

 

[ga♥]

Skull trap has a much smaller radius and needs a free horizon to not make it trigger (it also gets nerfed in BG2 with SCS).
Magic missle wand is useless at 1 (one) missle.

All in all give it a chance, sure, especially since as you said BG1 can be finished easily without a mage.

"So much stronger than Edwin because +2", doubt, can't beat access to the already mentioned spells and the +1 spell slot per level (that becomes 2 slots of level 1 spells with the ring of wizardy you get at the friendly arm inn).