Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[The Jester]

Zoom Zoomie who thinks infinity engine combat is lightning fast and requires fast reflexes versus the reality of the game needing canned fake attack animations so that players don't sit there wondering why their character isn't doing anything for the last ten seconds.

Do you want real Chaos?
Disable the cosmetic attacks and up the frames to 60 (not sure if works with old versions)

 

[Eisenheinrich]

A rather curious turn of event : I replayed the old BG series after maybe 10 years or more, and I am struck with how fast-paced it really is. It really has this deep connection with RTS gameplay, with all the running around, the kitting, vomiting incomprehensible effects on the screen and so on. I actually like it a lot. Secretly I am veteran of these games (I play with the SCS mod and all the nonsense), something I wouldn't admit because of how low brow it is. I mocked this stupid series for years, because of course, I played through it seven times and, like Viconia scorns you in the romance, I have to show hate to what I'm attached to. So yes, I like this stupid frantic RtwP gameplay. Now that TB is becoming more and more popular, I'm starting to regret it. Whatever becomes common loses value, as the big moustache said. At any rate, the idea that TB was somehow more sophisticated always had the fact that developing real time systems is much harder. Fixed states in a TB system are easy enough to determine at any given point. The readability argument is rather weak ; most distaste the Codex expressed for RtwP was really mostly just a skill issue, when you think about it.

This is a bad post, and you should feel bad for producing it.

That post is codex in a nutshell. You don't even have to be an armchair psychologist to get what's going on here.

 

[Sunri]

Spoiler

Duke niggaguard

got bugged on me, i saved him but he didnt spawn in my camp and i can't go back to

Spoiler

submarine i sold wyll soul

for nothing f

 

[octavius]

Hmm...I wonder what is more complex and needing more skill? Moving one unit at a time while the enemy sits still, or moving several units at a time while the enemy's units are also moving?

 

[Grunker]

The BG2 ones are an improvement. The BG1 ones are not.

both are utter hopw reur ne

 

[The Jester]

The BG2 ones are an improvement. The BG1 ones are not.

both are utter hopw reur ne

Some of them are objectively an improvement.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

most distaste the Codex expressed for RtwP was really mostly just a skill issue, when you think about it.

> RTwP
> skill

lol
lmao

>the oldfart who cant adapt to the chaos of battle
kek

> chaos of battle
> real time with PAUSE

 

[Average Manatee]

True chads play rtwpwop

 

[The Jester]

most distaste the Codex expressed for RtwP was really mostly just a skill issue, when you think about it.

> RTwP
> skill

lol
lmao

>the oldfart who cant adapt to the chaos of battle
kek

> chaos of battle
> real time with PAUSE

>He uses pause
Fucking plebian

 

[whydoibother]

If you need to lie and pretend to be retarded to defend your favorite RPG system, its probably bad, and you are probably deluded.

 

[Average Manatee]

TB and RTwP both have their place. Imagine if you were playing TB BG1 in one of the huge open areas and decided to cast Horror on enemies and they ran away. Have fun spending 100 turns trying to chase them down and end combat. Optimally both systems would be available (ala pathfinder games), but RTwP is harder to fuck up and less annoying with lazy encounter/area design, which is what 95% of RPGs have whether newfag or oldfag.

 

[Butter]

TB and RTwP both have their place. Imagine if you were playing TB BG1 in one of the huge open areas and decided to cast Horror on enemies and they ran away. Have fun spending 100 turns trying to chase them down and end combat. Optimally both systems would be available (ala pathfinder games), but RTwP is harder to fuck up and less annoying with lazy encounter/area design, which is what 95% of RPGs have whether newfag or oldfag.

Agreed, BG has terrible encounter design and area design.

 

[Orud]

Hmm...I wonder what is more complex and needing more skill? Moving one unit at a time while the enemy sits still, or moving several units at a time while the enemy's units are also moving?

Whatever your choice of answer is, I don't care because it comes down to personal preference.

Just don't mouth off about how RtWP or TB is technically easier/harder to do than the other. They're both from a technical point of view practically the same, RTwP is just sped TB from a technical POV. There is little to no technical reason to prefer one over the other, unless you're going back 35 years. Diabo 1 was swapped from fully working TB mode to Real-time in the span of an afternoon.

 

[Sarathiour]

Yeah, the true patrician way to play bg is obviously speedhacking *2 the game, torn off your space bar to prevent pausing, and learning every hotkey in order to keep up with the frantic spellcasting action.

 

[Erebus]

Currently replaying BG2.

Back when I played Throne of Bhaal for the first time, it felt genuinely exciting to finally see the end of the Bhaalspawn saga... at first, anyway. Ever since then, though I've often replayed BG2, I often don't bother with ToB. It's just too disappointing compared to Shadows of Amn.

I've been wondering if ToB could have been better if it had actually been (as it should have been) Baldur's Gate 3, a fully developped game.

Obviously, high-level D&D tends to be terrible. Several D&D games that are otherwise very good (such as Mask of the Betrayer) would be considerably better if they were merely mid-level D&D. There would have been no way to avoid that in Throne of Bhaal.

The setting could have been considerably richer and more enjoyable, with plenty of places to explore and optional quests.

The villains could easily have been better.

Though it would probably have been better to have the final villain be Bhaal's essence or something like that, having the main antagonist be Bhaal's high priestess who decided to betray her master is not necessarily a terrible idea. Melissan is terrible largely because she's a "surprise villain". Sarevok and Irenicus are cool because you're given reasons to hate and fear them right from the start. Melissan is underdeveloped, and her being a villain isn't even a real surprise because it's not at all subtle. It's really frustrating to have to keep following her instructions after Yaga Shura, when it's utterly obvious that she's plain evil.

The Five could also have been much more developed. Yaga-Shura is the only one who's half-decent. Illasera is a complete tool, Abazigal and Sendai are way too passive to make it satisfying to fight them, and Balthazar could have been put to much better use.

 

[Oberon]

RTwP is better than classic TB imo because of the simultaneous resolution of actions. A grid or hex based simultaneously resolving true TB would be

 

[whydoibother]

RTwP is better than classic TB imo because of the simultaneous resolution of actions. A grid or hex based simultaneously resolving true TB would be

In co-op BG3, if you are on the same initiative, you take turns simultaneously. Its a comedy of errors, with one person killing an enemy just as the other was casting a spell there, or one person walking into an AOE as its being cast by the other.
What you suggest would similarly be mostly wacky, and not feel very tactical.

 

[Oberon]

RTwP is better than classic TB imo because of the simultaneous resolution of actions. A grid or hex based simultaneously resolving true TB would be

In co-op BG3, if you are on the same initiative, you take turns simultaneously. Its a comedy of errors, with one person killing an enemy just as the other was casting a spell there, or one person walking into an AOE as its being cast by the other.
What you suggest would similarly be mostly wacky, and not feel very tactical.

Making it grid/hex based would make it less wacky since you are only guessing one move ahead each time. You plot your moves for each of your pieces and then press a button to resolve the round. Repeat until every piece runs out of Action Points and then refresh everyone's AP.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

RTwP is better than classic TB imo because of the simultaneous resolution of actions. A grid or hex based simultaneously resolving true TB would be

In co-op BG3, if you are on the same initiative, you take turns simultaneously. Its a comedy of errors, with one person killing an enemy just as the other was casting a spell there, or one person walking into an AOE as its being cast by the other.
What you suggest would similarly be mostly wacky, and not feel very tactical.

They must've changed it because it wasn't like that in EA.

 

[octavius]

Melissan is underdeveloped, and her being a villain isn't even a real surprise because it's not at all subtle. It's really frustrating to have to keep following her instructions after Yaga Shura, when it's utterly obvious that she's plain evil.

She's just like Almalexia in Tribunal, and in neither "role playing" game do you have any option whatsoever of confronting her.

 

[Vyadhis]

I have both EEs but reinstalled a vmware and OG BG1 again and man, redditors who act like there are no differences between EE and vanilla beyond resolution are idiots. I'm finding OG to be way more challenging too. My EE file for BG1 has every single SCS component enabled except for the shit that buffs you or the extra spells, no cheesy tweaks that stop people leaving at reputation/early Coran (cheating) or easy NPCs. Also the beamdog npcs are disabled thanks to a mod and difficulty is set to insanity.

Meanwhile my OG run is modless and set to insanity as well.

I'm still in chapter 2 but feel my sphincter clinch when I get a waylay with wolves and xvarts. Its not just challenge, I feel like BG1 is balanced around the original weapon system and not the BG2 engine. An example: in OG bastard swords, longswords and two handers all fall under "large swords" and if you want to do werewolf island (Forgive me for forgetting the actual name) you need a specific bastard sword (tho I think wands can handle them too). Now, its very likely in the OG that you have at least one character with large swords while in EE there's no reason to take bastard swords unless you want to use foebane in BG2. Also tiny little changes piss me off, like how Firebead gives you a scroll case in the EE on top of the exp. Also you can easily level up your entire party in the EE by accumulating 32k xp and then recruiting them. This is no problem really because the game as a whole is way easier, even on top difficulty.

I don't have a hate boner for BG2 but BG1 itself should not be played in the BG2 engine, its an unbalanced mess.
Getting these games to run outside of a vmachine (non-EEs) is a PAIN though. Last night I tried dxwind and borderless gaming, I was able to get BG1 to run to a degree but the colors looked a bit more washed out than on vmware and that bugged me a lot. In fact, 90% of my gaming recently has been on vmware. The only pain is that if I want to play a game like ToEE I have to crank up 3d acceleration and then remember to turn it down when returning to the BG series or Fallout. I also prefer how the old, low resolution graphics look. I don't understand people who have to run every single game at 4k/whatever their monitor supports.

It sucks ass if your pc/motherboard limits you in regards to running virtual machines but if you can get one to run its so much easier than looking online for obscure bugfixes.

 

[NecroLord]

I don't have a hate boner for BG2 but BG1 itself should not be played in the BG2 engine, its an unbalanced mess.

You are right.
Baldur's Gate was not designed with kits in mind. Kits like Berserker and Inquisitor and Cavalier absolutely destroy the balance of the first Baldur's Gate.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I have both EEs but reinstalled a vmware and OG BG1 again and man, redditors who act like there are no differences between EE and vanilla beyond resolution are idiots. I'm finding OG to be way more challenging too. My EE file for BG1 has every single SCS component enabled except for the shit that buffs you or the extra spells, no cheesy tweaks that stop people leaving at reputation/early Coran (cheating) or easy NPCs. Also the beamdog npcs are disabled thanks to a mod and difficulty is set to insanity.

Meanwhile my OG run is modless and set to insanity as well.

I'm still in chapter 2 but feel my sphincter clinch when I get a waylay with wolves and xvarts. Its not just challenge, I feel like BG1 is balanced around the original weapon system and not the BG2 engine. An example: in OG bastard swords, longswords and two handers all fall under "large swords" and if you want to do werewolf island (Forgive me for forgetting the actual name) you need a specific bastard sword (tho I think wands can handle them too). Now, its very likely in the OG that you have at least one character with large swords while in EE there's no reason to take bastard swords unless you want to use foebane in BG2. Also tiny little changes piss me off, like how Firebead gives you a scroll case in the EE on top of the exp. Also you can easily level up your entire party in the EE by accumulating 32k xp and then recruiting them. This is no problem really because the game as a whole is way easier, even on top difficulty.

I don't have a hate boner for BG2 but BG1 itself should not be played in the BG2 engine, its an unbalanced mess.
Getting these games to run outside of a vmachine (non-EEs) is a PAIN though. Last night I tried dxwind and borderless gaming, I was able to get BG1 to run to a degree but the colors looked a bit more washed out than on vmware and that bugged me a lot. In fact, 90% of my gaming recently has been on vmware. The only pain is that if I want to play a game like ToEE I have to crank up 3d acceleration and then remember to turn it down when returning to the BG series or Fallout. I also prefer how the old, low resolution graphics look. I don't understand people who have to run every single game at 4k/whatever their monitor supports.

It sucks ass if your pc/motherboard limits you in regards to running virtual machines but if you can get one to run its so much easier than looking online for obscure bugfixes.

IIRC the original IE engine for BG1 couldn't handle resolutions above 1280x768, or it could with tons of issues. Apparently the code was updated later so things would scale with little to no issues. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Average Manatee]

BG1 non-ee worked just fine for me last time I tried it on windows 10. Was surprised, no tricks needed.

I don't have a hate boner for BG2 but BG1 itself should not be played in the BG2 engine, its an unbalanced mess.

You are right.
Baldur's Gate was not designed with kits in mind. Kits like Berserker and Inquisitor and Cavalier absolutely destroy the balance of the first Baldur's Gate.

Berserker, sure.

Inquisitor? Magical protections aren't a huge deal for most of BG1. Wouldn't say its powerful at all.

Cavalier? A straight fighter with 4 pips in a weapon has +2 AB +3 Damage vs. everything compared to Cavalier having +3/+3 vs. a small handful of enemies. They also lose the ability to lose ranged weapons which are king in BG1. Straight downgrade from a non-kitted fighter.

 

[NecroLord]

Cavalier? A straight fighter with 4 pips in a weapon has +2 AB +3 Damage vs. everything compared to Cavalier having +3/+3 vs. a small handful of enemies. They also lose the ability to lose ranged weapons which are king in BG1. Straight downgrade from a non-kitted fighter.

Fear gets tossed around quite frequently in the game.
And immunity to charm is also really good to have.