Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep - Director's Cut

[aweigh]

Actually the game tells you during chargen that you can't "cancel" a point once spent. No do-overs.

Very weird for them to go so hard-core in this one small aspect yet "innovate" everything else, isn't it?

 

[newtmonkey]

Are the dungeons puzzle-heavy? Some reviews have made it sound like dungeons are mostly block/fairy pushing puzzles punctuated with combats, but the reviews are so vague it's hard to take any of them seriously. I don't mind the occasional puzzle in an RPG, but I don't want to be pushing blocks around dungeon after dungeon after dungeon.

I found this:
https://guides.gamepressure.com/the-bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep/guide.asp?ID=46463
which makes it look more like a puzzle game, at least in this area. Is this pretty accurate throughout the game?

 

[Curratum]

Seriously, though, are there 20+ dungeons in the game, as advertised? Also, can we ever figure out which of those, if any, again as advertised, were designed by famous D&D designers Bruce Cordell, Wolfgang Baur and Sean Raynolds?

 

[Roqua]

Any strategies or advise for party composition: class and races?

Maximum amount is 6 of your characters in group?

It looks like currently the human that gets extra skill points isn't give extras for any character but your first main character. Dwarves not being knock-backable is really nice, but I think this is also a skill? I can't remember off hand. Elven mage is nice for the 30% extra int, but I've stuck with the pre-generated fighter, thief, and floating mage (second mage you get, as none of them had wasted skill points. I only have five party members so far, my sixth will be a mage. I'll have two Dwarf fighters (one tank, one for that strifespear/two-handed) for the mages to hang out behind and to taunt. My main is a bard and spams the fire stance buff thing and the protection/heal buff when needed. The rogue does decent dps and stealth has helped me "first strike" a bunch. But mages are really good dps. The bard song that does the true damage seed thing is nice for dps too.

I just fought a boss that was immune to taunt halfing his armor (from a skill) and his armor was like 35 or something crazy. If it wasn't for my one current mage it would have taken forever to kill him with just damage from the fire buff and the mace mental damage ability thing that's on a 2 round cd.

 

[Gord]

The type of argument Gord is using is meaningless and dishonest:

You seem to be willfully missrepresenting what I'm saying.
For a change, you guys could actually try to argument the points I'm making, instead of going around with the fingers in your ears singing lalalala...

So again, to make it clear:
Bard's Tale 1-3 where simple games. You are playing a sequel to it. Maybe, just maybe, one should consider that and adjust the expectations to it accordingly.

You can still arrive at the conclusion that BT4 is shallow clumsy shit for all I care, but don't twist the old games into something they never were.

 

[Agame]

Actually the game tells you during chargen that you can't "cancel" a point once spent. No do-overs.

Very weird for them to go so hard-core in this one small aspect yet "innovate" everything else, isn't it?

The whole game has a very schizophrenic design, as if they just cherry picked random elements of 'old school' mashed in with 'for the casuals'.

 

[Roqua]

Are the dungeons puzzle-heavy? Some reviews have made it sound like dungeons are mostly block/fairy pushing puzzles punctuated with combats, but the reviews are so vague it's hard to take any of them seriously. I don't mind the occasional puzzle in an RPG, but I don't want to be pushing blocks around dungeon after dungeon after dungeon.

I found this:
https://guides.gamepressure.com/the-bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep/guide.asp?ID=46463
which makes it look more like a puzzle game, at least in this area. Is this pretty accurate throughout the game?

There are a lot of puzzles but they aren't bad like in most content-less dungeon crawlers that are all puzzles. So far at least. There are more than in MMX, but they are over pretty quick and easy. I can say without any dishonesty or pro-inXile agenda that I think this game has had the best, least annoying puzzles out of any game with puzzles I've played. Besides the second puzzle weapon puzzles. They all suck and hurt my brain. Most dungeons or areas with puzzles seem to have a puzzle theme. I just finished a dungeon where it was music bells. None have been overly hard or most have been fun to figure out - and according to 99% of the people on this site I am super retarded so if I can do it you can do it.

But seriously, I hate Grimrock type constant puzzles. I dislike the spin on Wizardry puzzles in games like Code Rise Zero Tokyo (or whatever the name of those games are) and games like that. If it was like those I'd tell you. The puzzles in this game have been more brain teasers and don't require you to run around east kabeesh or try to remember stupid shit for ages.

 

[V_K]

In Roqua's book, good puzzles = easy puzzles. Who'd have thought.

 

[newtmonkey]

Roqua
Thanks for the response! I too hate Grimrock type constant puzzles, so it's good to hear that. Once that first patch hits today/this weekend, I'll think about giving this one another chance.

 

[Roqua]

In Roqua's book, good puzzles = easy puzzles. Who'd have thought.

Puzzles, like your mother and all whores, are much better when they are fun and don't try to test your memory over long periods. Annoying puzzles does not equal hard. Fun does not equal easy.

Have you played the game? If not, shut your whore holes. If you have, I'm sure you are constantly looking up shit in guides and walkthroughs like a true peon.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

In Roqua's book, good puzzles = easy puzzles. Who'd have thought.

It ain't a puzzle game lad, hard doesn't equal good either. Puzzles need to be hard just enough to break the pace of gameplay every once in a while, but not so hard tgat you get bogged down for 20 minutes, especiially if that time isn't spent on figuring out the puzzle but pointless busywork like extensive backtracking to look for clues or keys or some such.

 

[newtmonkey]

If puzzles have got to be in an RPG, I'm rather they were simple and fun so that they break up the combat. If I want to solve puzzles, I'll play something else.

 

[BEvers]

Actually the game tells you during chargen that you can't "cancel" a point once spent. No do-overs.

Very weird for them to go so hard-core in this one small aspect yet "innovate" everything else, isn't it?

https://steamcommunity.com/app/566090/discussions/0/1733213724891975844/

Originally posted by Eric_inXile:
Hey all, currently there's no way to respec after many players objected to this feature during the beta period. That said, we are certainly keeping an eye towards any gameplay suggestions you have for consideration in future updates.

Looking at the inXile beta thread, I don't think this is completely accurate. I can only find four players who didn't like respec - the other posters were vehemently opposed to removing it. Sample:

@Zombra why does respec ruin your ability to stick with a class and not change it? You arent being forced to change. I just dont get the thought process involved here.

It's not about whether it's possible for me to ignore bad game mechanics. It's that bad mechanics are bad and the expectation that I will ignore them does not make them good.

Are you saying respec makes the game bad?

Yes.

or that some people having the ability to do something they want ruins the game?

Yep.

Wait, I am assuming this is a single player only game...is there a multi-player aspect I didnt see?

Nope.

That went on for a few pages, and then the devs decided that respec should be removed

 

[aweigh]

"Guys let's listen to this one guy who says he doesn't want respecc, seems like it's very representative"

"What about all of these complaints about performance"

"Nah those are just trolls"

 

[newtmonkey]

Was watching a stream of this on Youtube to see what the dungeon crawling is like later on the game, and the guy lost 45 mins of progress when a combat after a large puzzle section soft locked the game. Yikes. They should really consider revamping the save system, doesn't have to be save anywhere, but at least add an auto save after completing a puzzle or before entering a combat, or something.

Link if anyone is interested:
https://youtu.be/DqbWSrYdH4U?t=31m16s

 

[aweigh]

The design philosophy is so fucking warped on this game it really makes you ponder. Why cut down 90% of the mechanics and remove things like classes, rolls and itemization and remove party creation, because I assume they wanted to appeal to casuals, but then decide to go with a strict checkpoint system for saving? It's just... dissonant.

 

[BEvers]

inXile forums already getting mad at sea's respec post:

Um, maybe one or two people had a full objection - but I think you're missing the main point which is that free respec was fundamentally broken due to the way skills/crafting works, and that most of the feedback (in this forum) was to place a form of disincentive such as gold, XP or token cost on the process (or maybe even a free one every 5 levels?). So, instead of thanking the backers for calling out the fundamental issues with free respec in the beta... you try and throw them under the bus on the Steam forums?

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&p=200732#p200732

My suspicion is that they removed respec because it was bugged in some way and are now using the "Zombra asked us to do this!" defense as a fig leaf.

 

[fantadomat]

It does run pretty badly for how it looks (I get around 40-50 fps on a 1070 with an ancient i5 3570k) and load times are pretty atrocious (in retrospect I shouldn't have installed it on my larger mechanical HDD, should have installed it on the SSD). There are microstutters when you open your inventory or when you loot a container that are pretty annoying.

I have the feeling that all those modern 1080 cards are pretty shitty,most game that people whine that chugs their cards run fine on my 580. It could be also drivers,my are pretty old and lack all the spyware of modern patches.
Anyway,you know how it is with pcs,not having a problem doesn't mean that other people are not having them. In the beginning i had to run on medium to have normal experience,now i run it on ultra textures only and have not problem.

'm wondering specifically what the game is like once you start going through hubs to revisit previously inaccessible areas.

I find it kind of fun,it have a few interesting battles,mainly with red enemies,well done bosses. Also some of the puzzles are good. But as majority of the game is about repetition,doing the same puzzles for 20th time and killing the same mob,i liked the first map(undercity) the most until now. I am at the end of the forest and just mopping up a few side things. The forest have some annoying level design with fun teleport puzzle,also it looked well and then they decide to make all pink/red and make my eyes bleed. I see the game as a puzzle solving one with a few battles in between,far to many throw away puzzles.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Some tourney-level trolling by Roqua here lol

People still don't get it. Roqua is an attention whore. He doesn't give a shit about InXile.

 

[fantadomat]

That being said the vitriol likely is high due to inXile hate on the Codex due to a variety of things.

What vitriol? Every nu game gets blasted a new asshole on the codex! Aslo what inxile hate? I am uneducated on the drama angle apparently.

Are the dungeons puzzle-heavy? Some reviews have made it sound like dungeons are mostly block/fairy pushing puzzles punctuated with combats, but the reviews are so vague it's hard to take any of them seriously. I don't mind the occasional puzzle in an RPG, but I don't want to be pushing blocks around dungeon after dungeon after dungeon.

I found this:
https://guides.gamepressure.com/the-bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep/guide.asp?ID=46463
which makes it look more like a puzzle game, at least in this area. Is this pretty accurate throughout the game?

There are a lot of puzzles but they aren't bad like in most content-less dungeon crawlers that are all puzzles. So far at least. There are more than in MMX, but they are over pretty quick and easy. I can say without any dishonesty or pro-inXile agenda that I think this game has had the best, least annoying puzzles out of any game with puzzles I've played. Besides the second puzzle weapon puzzles. They all suck and hurt my brain. Most dungeons or areas with puzzles seem to have a puzzle theme. I just finished a dungeon where it was music bells. None have been overly hard or most have been fun to figure out - and according to 99% of the people on this site I am super retarded so if I can do it you can do it.

But seriously, I hate Grimrock type constant puzzles. I dislike the spin on Wizardry puzzles in games like Code Rise Zero Tokyo (or whatever the name of those games are) and games like that. If it was like those I'd tell you. The puzzles in this game have been more brain teasers and don't require you to run around east kabeesh or try to remember stupid shit for ages.

The game is mainly puzzles mate,if you hate hard ones you will have "fun" times later on .

 

[Nyast]

Great Deceiver
When you get a bit further in could you post your impressions of the exploration? I immediately disliked the game and refunded it for fear of passing the 2 hour mark and getting stuck with something I'd hate, but I'm still interesting in getting it again once the bugs are ironed out. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get a feel of the game from the professional reviews so far (which are basically summaries of the game's combat system + SINGING XDXDXD), the official forum is seemingly dead, and the steam forum is full of drama about frame rate and graphics.

I'm wondering specifically what the game is like once you start going through hubs to revisit previously inaccessible areas. Since encounters are not random/do not respawn, I'm worried it will be like the second half of M&M10 were you are just walking back and forth over empty roads. Or are there plenty of shortcuts that open up (or are new encounters placed after certain points)?

I'm past the mid game so I can answer that.

It's a bit disapointing. The main quest progression is totally linear. Progress in areas you are exploring/cleaning for the first time is totally linear. Dungeons are totally linear so far, too. However, as you clean up those areas, a lot of paths open up for back tracking. In addition, there's a teleportation system via magic stones which you can activate, which allows you to teleport to areas already visited.

Progression in the story is totally linear, because the few times you'll see branching in the maps, it'll be gated with mobs that are too hard for you to kill. So at any given time, to advance the main quest, you don't have any choice, you have to follow what the designers expect of you.

 

[Nyast]

Are the dungeons puzzle-heavy? Some reviews have made it sound like dungeons are mostly block/fairy pushing puzzles punctuated with combats, but the reviews are so vague it's hard to take any of them seriously. I don't mind the occasional puzzle in an RPG, but I don't want to be pushing blocks around dungeon after dungeon after dungeon.

I found this:
https://guides.gamepressure.com/the-bards-tale-iv-barrows-deep/guide.asp?ID=46463
which makes it look more like a puzzle game, at least in this area. Is this pretty accurate throughout the game?

Yeah, that's pretty true, so far dungeons have an emphasis on puzzles.

But don't worry, there are tons of puzzles in outdoor areas too. And bad / repetitive ones, that is

The whole game is a mixed bag regarding puzzles IMO. Individually they're not bad, but the designers repeat them all over the place with little variations. Once you've solved one, you know how to solve them all ( of the same type ), so it's just time consuming and boring.

 

[fantadomat]

If anyone have the balls for very hard battles.

 

[Serus]

That being said the vitriol likely is high due to inXile hate on the Codex due to a variety of things.

What vitriol? Every nu game gets blasted a new asshole on the codex! Aslo what inxile hate? I am uneducated on the drama angle apparently.

Agreed. People keep repeating it but I don't see any particular vitriol here. Most people just commented on the gameplay they've experienced or on the flopping due to bad optimization and bad business by inxile, which isn't unreasonable considering what happened. And some edgy shitposting of curse, myself included (and that also includes certain vocal fanboy) but kept within reason imo - it's Codex so no shitposting would be boring. Funnily enough, overall this thread is balanced, informative and imo reasonable.

 

[Gord]

The design philosophy is so fucking warped on this game it really makes you ponder. Why cut down 90% of the mechanics and remove things like classes, rolls and itemization and remove party creation, because I assume they wanted to appeal to casuals, but then decide to go with a strict checkpoint system for saving? It's just... dissonant.

Again, cut down what exactly. Maybe you care to elaborate? The old games have been as simple as it gets already.
You still have classes (fewer, admittedly, but you gain skills to differentiate them, which was not possible before) and itemization is worse now why exactly? It wasn't that meaningful to begin with, imo.
They did remove most of the RNG, true.
Also you have far fewer spells (most of which were useless or redundant anyway, though).
Still, I don't see how they have dumbed it down so much, here.

I would find it more convincing to argue that they have not used the chance to actually introduce some proper ruleset to the series...