From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[ghostdog]

Heh, I don't think he's trolling. Lord Azlan is a bro in a quest of good RPGs who got a bit misled about DS1.

- First of all Dark Souls is a fantastic action-RPG focused on exploration, combat and atmosphere. In the parts of combat and atmosphere it really excels. It's also pretty hard so prepare to die a lot (as the subtitles says) but this is expected and it's actually kind of a feature in the game. In my book it's one of the best games ever made, and unlike any other. (except, you know, the other games From Software has been making... Demon Souls, Shadow Tower, King's Field etc. These dudes have been refining their recipe since mid 90s)

- Secondly, the PC port of Dark Souls is a piece of shit. You definitely need a gamepad to play the game and you definitely need DSFix. DSfix will give you the option to use higher resolutions, Anti-Aliasing, 60fps, and will fix many performance and stability problems. I also advise using its savegame backup option, because the PC version will crash sometimes and there is always a chance of savegame corruption. In DS you only have ONE save per character, so this is handy. If your gamepad isn't an xbox gamepad, you'll probably also need the x360ce tool or something similar. If you set these mods up correctly the game will run almost flawlessly.

- Thirdly, YES, you need to do some work to get this shit done and yes you need some patience in the beginning to get used to the gameplay. I almost rage-quit two times, once while I tried to get the crappy port running decently and then when I couldn't beat the goddamned tutorial boss, but I pressed on and got rewarded with one of the best experiences in my gaming life. Stick with it and you'll be rewarded.

 

[toro]

DARK SOULS IS AWESOME!

 

[ghostdog]

It is ! :D

If I had Hidetaka Miyazaki in front of me right now, I would hug him and kiss him (no homo)

If I had Hidetaka Miyazaki in front of me the first day I tried to play DS on my PC, I would probably smash his face to a pulp with my keyboard.

 

[Zetor]

I liked DS1, but keyboard/mouse support is fucking terrible even with ds(m)fix... and I can understand if someone refuses to play a game because of bad controls/UI.

Though you can find a PC compatible USB controller for cheap. I can understand not wanting to buy a controller for just one (or two) games, but it's retarded to complain about the controls if you're playing a console game with a mouse and keyboard.
Then again, if this is possible, getting through with mouse and keyboard should be doable

I won't buy a controller for one game. Also, you need to learn how to use a controller if you've never used one in the first place, and that takes (a lot of) time. I liked DS, but I didn't like it that much.

And yes, I did finish DS1 and DS2 with mouse/keyboard... doesn't make the implementation any less terrible. FWIW I played a sorc in both games and there's no way in hell I'm replaying either as melee.

 

[Jasede]

Well, that's a bit like complaining that Starcraft is hard to play on the N64 with the N64 controller.

 

[Zetor]

Well, that's a bit like complaining that Starcraft is hard to play on the N64 with the N64 controller.

Yeah, except everyone who ever owned a computer knows how to use kb/m, and probably has one on hand. Someone who never owned a ~next gen~ console and played action games on it needs a lot of time just to figure out how to use the thing / build muscle memory, never mind the $40 (or whatever) investment.

"Just buy a PC keyboard/mouse and plug it into your N64, n00b." != "Just buy an xbox controller and plug it into your PC, n00b."
(can you even plug a PC kb/m into a N64? heh)

edit: of course, if you mean to say that "you complaining about the PC port of DS being shit is like a N64 owner complaning about the N64 port of SC being shit", I could agree with that, because both statements are right. /codex_smug_smiley

 

[Jasede]

Yes, there's an N64 mouse. Pretty much nothing supports it though.

Anyway, that's a somewhat fair point, but why buy a game that was made for consoles on the PC and expect it to have a PC input scheme? It's well-known that this was only ported to PC due to whining by the fanbase rather than an actual desire to make it a PC experience. The game wasn't conceived to be such.

But all that said, a Super Nintendo or an NES are hardly a next-gen console, nor is the Play Station, and that is all the gamepad experience you need.


What I am saying is that it'd never occur to me to play a game like Batman: Arkham's Asylum without a gamepad if I owned it on the PC since it was designed for consoles. And it'd never occur to me to play a strategy game with a gamepad, or expect it to have gamepad support.

 

[Zetor]

Yea, fair enough. Though I did have a NES ~25 years ago, and the brief time I tried using an x360 controller at a friend's house still just felt like 'wtf is this control scheme'. Bumper buttons, analog sticks, blah blah.

Thing is, though, "this was never intended to be a PC game" doesn't give From a free pass for a shitty port. I -almost- accepted it in DS1 (after learning that sorcery is pretty much the only viable way to play as kb/m), but in DS2 they somehow made it even worse than modded DS1... even vanilla DS1 in some cases (to be fair, they did improve some of the more broken aspects of kb/m from DS1... two steps forward, three steps back). This was despite them saying that 'mouse and keyboard are really going to be viable this time, you guys!!' in one of the prerelease dev PR pieces.

 

[Akratus]

I found DS1 to be better than DS2 port-wise after installing ds fix and dsmfix, and configuring them properly. The mouse is unusable in DS2 for me.

 

[Jasede]

That's fair enough, Zetor. If they're gonna cave in and make a port as people asked they might as well make a good one. But I am a little more understanding than you might be: fact is that in Japan, programming for the PC is kind of rare so it doesn't surprise me that they were inept at it.

As for the controllers, I find the X360 terrible and clunky as well; I am only comfortable with Playstation controllers (which are basically like old Super Nintendo controllers with more buttons)
(Of course it's just a matter of getting used to it, but meh, I was never interested in Xbox, nor will I ever be.)

 

[Cowboy Moment]

KBM support sucks in both DS1 and DS2, and there's no excuse for it. It should be way better. In the first game's case, it's just a crappy port overall, but the second one is pretty good technically (in terms of performance, bugs, etc.) and it still has shitty controls, so it's likely just japanese not knowing how to PC. That said, store pages for both games "strongly recommend" a 360 controller, so at least they're honest about it. Also, in my humble opinion, controls in DS1 with dsmfix installed aren't much worse than the keyboard controls in Gothic, and the game is easily completable with that setup.

 

[Lyric Suite]

An xbox controller is like what, 20-30 bucks? I got one a long time ago to play mame games and i never played a console game in my life but i got used to this game pretty quickly. The only thing i can't do for shit is aim with my bow, and i think using crossbows is probably impossible, but would be easy with a good mouse setup. Then again, is there any reason to even use ranged weapons except to snipe the occasional annoying enemy?

 

[Lyric Suite]

yes, you're missing something. "split damage weapons" (i.e. weapons doing 2 damage types) generally aren't worth it (divine is ok for the catacombs and the Nito fight... that's about it) and end up doing less damage than single-type weapons. there are a few exceptions, and it's always cool to have a chaos/lightning backup weapon with a big number on it (like f.e. the garg halberd or a greataxe or whatever), but you're better off buffing a pure physical or even using a pure physical weapon unbuffed in about 90% of the cases since going through 2 defence types more often than not will reduce the damage significantly.

plus, the scaling you get from Fth going from 30 to 40 is negligible, and going all the way to 50 is barely worth it for the increase in damage of WoG and getting sunlight spear (but for PvE you're better off using those 2 slots it takes up by getting both lightning spears). and buffs will make quick work of most bosses so they're not recommended in PvE

I see. Google came up with this calculations for mirales:

Sunlight Blade
30 Faith + Canvas Talisman = ~258 Ar

40 Faith + Canvas Talisman = ~285 Ar
40 Faith + Darkmoon Talisman = ~287 Ar

50 Faith + Ivory/Sunlight Talisman = ~332 Ar
50 Faith + Darkmoon Talisman = ~339 Ar

Darkmoon Blade (Rank 1/2/3)
30 Faith + Canvas Talisman = ~ 327 / 344 / 361 Ar

40 Faith + Canvas Talisman = ~ 361 / 380 / 399 Ar
40 Faith + Darkmoon Talisman = ~ 362 / 382 / 401 Ar

50 Faith + Ivory/Sunlight Talisman = ~ 420 / 442 / 464 Ar
50 Faith + Darkmoon Talisman = ~ 429 / 452 / 475 ArP

The difference seems substantial. Wrath of God too is in the 300s at 30 FTH and around 450 with 50 FTH. I mean, let's say i gimp myself in VIT and END but i wear the Ring of Favor to make up for it. Then i can get 27 STR, 40 DEX and 50 FTH and still be around PvP range with my SL (which i think is max 120 right?). How much weaker is this split damage thing that a divine or occult weapon is still outclassed by a normal weapon, even with those stats? And if we take into consideration the aforementioned buffs, that argument doesn't even apply because you are using a normal weapon but with a stronger buff than you would with 30 FTH. Sunlight Spear seems to be pretty shit for PvP and since i'm not going to NG+ it has no use for PvE, so i'm not even considering it as an advantage of having 50 FTH, just looking at the numbers here.

 

[praetor]

as you can see from those numbers, the jump to 40 is most definitely not worth it, while the one to 50 kinda is, but that depends on what you want to do with you char. also also, one more thing to consider is that while darkmoon blade has higher numbers, it also deals magic damage, which can be completely negated by GMB (and the Crest shield with 80% magic block is relatively popular in PvP). you can go to 50, it's not a bad idea, but you'd only get more damage out of WoG (which is definitely not a bad thing) and a decent boost to darkmoon blade, and slightly better heals iirc. at SL120-125, spending those 20 points on Vit or End will be a better investment 9 times out of 10. go for it if you want better miracles, but don't go for it if you just want better occult/divine weapons. that is a bad idea

as a rule of thumb, phys weapon at base stats with buff >>> occult/divine. by quite a bit. without a buff it's near enough. but at 27/40? no contest even without buffs. plus, iirc, pure phys weapons deal more poise damage? (don't quote me on this ). seriously, get that +5 divine club from AL to get through the catacombs and for the beginning of the Nito fight (or don't) then forget it exists.

yeah, all lightning spears are worthless in PvP

 

[Lyric Suite]

Allright, i'll go 30 FTH on this build. Maybe i'll make a pure Cleric type 50 FTH later on for the hell of it (and once i know more about PvP as well). Just killed Nito so divine shit is no longer required.

 

[Gozma]

Then again, is there any reason to even use ranged weapons except to snipe the occasional annoying enemy?

Headshots make you (and even bosses) go through this very long reeling stun animation... which you can use to get another headshot, that causes another long reeling stun animation... and so on.

It's a testament to how slow and shitty arrows are and how bad aiming is that even with headshot infinites archery still doesn't matter in PvP.

 

[Multidirectional]

This damn thread made me reinstall DS1 once more.

100% physical reduction shield from the very first hollow soldier in tutorial. Great, never had that before.

 

[Murk]

Huhhhh I didn't even know they can drop items int he tutorial area.

Lyric Suite my suggestion is to not make a hybrid yet, but to try out different builds for your first 2-3 times. Make a pure phys melee char, then try a magic char, then try some gimmicky dex build or something.

I went like this in my playthroughs: Pyro + greatsword first time, Sorcery only with bandit knife on second time, Miracles and UGS/Greataxe/Greathammer on 3rd time (no shield).

The point was to experience the different styles and just have fun with shit. I liked my pyro + GS the most but found sorcery the absolute easiest.

 

[praetor]

It's a testament to how slow and shitty arrows are and how bad aiming is that even with headshot infinites archery still doesn't matter in PvP.

i wish sansviedotcom didn't delete all of her/his vids from the channel to show you what skilled players (mostly or exclusively japs) do with bows mostly/only in PvP to prove you wrong

damn that channel was full of cool vids (and a shitton of crap, of course)

100% physical reduction shield from the very first hollow soldier in tutorial. Great, never had that before.

you should've seen this one in the unpatched game. probably the best medium shield in the game, lol

 

[Lyric Suite]

Silver Knight seems to be the best medium shield in the game. I'm currently using that one and the Green Crest one. I also have the Sanctus since it matches the armor but the HP regen is too slow to be worth anything. There's the eagle one as well but it just looks too stupid on my character.

So i killed Nito and the Four Kings. Moving on to Lost Itzrael or whatever the fuck its called, after spending the 30 humanities to save my bro Solaire. After that i'll get the miracles from the Sunlight covenant and i think i'm ready to join the Darkmoons. My SL is currently 86. I avoided any possible grinding but this game really throws a shit load of souls at you. It seems i now only have the Duke's Archives, the Painted world and any of the additional content to go through before the final boss. Plus there's still some stuff i have to buy so even if i finish the game i should be able to keep under SL 120.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Haha, just won three battles as a blue invader. The guilty pay the price!

Getting a connection its pretty slow though. The first two were quick than i had to run around Anor Londo for 20 minutes before getting a third one. I guess getting to rank up in this covenant is going to be a challenge in itself.

 

[praetor]

Haha, just won three battles as a blue invader. The guilty pay the price!

Getting a connection its pretty slow though. The first two were quick than i had to run around Anor Londo for 20 minutes before getting a third one. I guess getting to rank up in this covenant is going to be a challenge in itself.

you can farm the birdwomen in the painted world to speed things up on slow days

 

[Gozma]

No one uses the items that give blue invasions more targets because people don't want to seem butthurt when they get invaded, so the only people you'll ever blue invade are newbies that don't know about sin from switching factions. And since killing them once or twice will clear their sin, that's all you'll get until more newbies come through.

 

[toroid]

Silver Knight seems to be the best medium shield in the game. I'm currently using that one and the Green Crest one.

I'm inclined to rely on the Balder Shield when I need serious high-stability physical defense. It has a weight of 4 and its stability is only marginally less than that of the Silver Knight Shield. Otherwise I'm almost always toting the Grass Crest Shield. The only other shields I tend to use are the Spider Shield (because of the 100% poison defense) and the Black Knight Shield (because of the 95% fire defense). I'll also use the Crest Shield because of its high magic defense on occasion.

Speaking of the Balder Shield, on my current playthrough the game will not drop it for me. While farming the Balder Knights for it they dropped six Balder Side Swords (!!!), nine Rapiers, tons of Balder armor, and probably 30 titanite shards. NO Balder Shield. This has never happened before.


Oh, another fantastic shield is the Iron Round Shield. It has a weight of 5 but it deflects attacks like a great shield.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

i never got the baldur side sword. ever. this is fucking bullshit.