From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[jcd]

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[sullynathan]

Lel, I'm doing that right now. Invading noobs with sunlight blade.

 

[Seaking4]

there's another copypasted stray demon later on

this game is the laziest shit ever just wait until u get to izalith and there will be random taurus and capra demons walking around in a completely featureless flat piece of terrain

That's actually Demon Ruins. Lost Izalith has the Tyrannosaurus Rexs in a mostly featureless flat piece of terrain.

 

[SionIV]

Lost Izalith is the worst zone in Dark Souls, it's like the time ran out when they started working on it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

 

[SionIV]

Still, worst zone in Dark Souls is better than the shit we got in Dark Souls 2.

 

[sullynathan]

Anor Londo has a lot of low levels in it making it good for invasions.
Invaded a guy that tried to run to the boss but ended up backstabbing him.

 

[SionIV]

Invading low levels in Anor'Londo is just to cause grief and get a reaction.

 

[Seaking4]

Still, worst zone in Dark Souls is better than the shit we got in Dark Souls 2.

It really isn't. Lost Izalith is trash. It's filled with boring enemies who you just oneshot/run from and then caps it off with the worst boss in the game. There is no quality content there. You might not like DS2 but even it never sunk to the levels of Lost Izalith.

 

[SionIV]

Still, worst zone in Dark Souls is better than the shit we got in Dark Souls 2.

It really isn't. Lost Izalith is trash. It's filled with boring enemies who you just oneshot/run from and then caps it off with the worst boss in the game. There is no quality content there. You might not like DS2 but even it never sunk to the levels of Lost Izalith.

While Lost Izalith is bad when you compare it to the rest of the areas in Dark Souls, it's not THAT bad.

- It had some interesting bosses.
- One of the few areas where a bonefire was hidden away.
- It actually had a story behind it (compared to Tomb of Giants), with the witches and you'll even get a quest for the area.
- You find Solaire there, and he has some very interesting interactions.

Spoiler

- To save Solaire, you'll have to have done something with a certain covenant. No where else in the game have covenants been a big part of the storyline.

- With the exception of the mosh pit with the headless creatures, it's actually a very beautiful area.

 

[Seaking4]

Lost Izalith only has one boss. Even if you choose to fold in Demons Ruins into Lost Izalith it's still pretty meh (although Demon Ruins isn't nearly as bad as Lost Izalith). It mostly consists of enemies you have fought before just in larger numbers. Even one of the Demon Ruins bosses is just a copy/paste of the first boss in the game.

 

[SionIV]

Lost Izalith only has one boss. Even if you choose to fold in Demons Ruins into Lost Izalith it's still pretty meh (although Demon Ruins isn't nearly as bad as Lost Izalith). It mostly consists of enemies you have fought before just in larger numbers. Even one of the Demon Ruins bosses is just a copy/paste of the first boss in the game.

So let's compare it to the other end game areas of the game.

Tomb of Giants - Only one boss.
The Duke's Archives - Only one boss.
The Abyss - Only one boss.

Lost Izalith isn't much worse than those areas. It does have an unfinished feel to it, but there are still many interesting things in that area and the boss while being frustration and based on shit design, is still unique.

 

[sullynathan]

So far from playing DS1 & Scholar of the first sin. I'd say that the best bosses are Kalameet, capra demon, quelaag, ornsetin & smough, and all the artorias DLC bosses, The pursuer (annoying that he kept showing up throughtout the game though), smelter demon, darklurker, fume knight, burnt ivory king and sir alonne.

 

[SionIV]

So far from playing DS1 & Scholar of the first sin. I'd say that the best bosses are Kalameet, capra demon, quelaag, ornsetin & smough, and all the artorias DLC bosses, The pursuer (annoying that he kept showing up throughtout the game though), smelter demon, darklurker, fume knight, burnt ivory king and sir alonne.

I agree on some of it, but I'm curious how you find Capra Demon and Queelag to be great bosses, but you don't mention Pricilla, Gargoyles or the Four Kings which all have unique and interesting mechanics. I agree with Ornstein and Smough, as they are without a doubt the best boss encounter in any souls game.

 

[sullynathan]

I like quelaag. I feel like she is a well done boss even though she one shots me in NG+. She has a very good moveset and a good character design. Priscilla is iffy, she is an annoyance and is too easy. If it wasn't for the going invisible thing, I would beat her everytime in less than a minute like I did to sif. The gargoyles are good too but I don't know if they would be put in a great category, they're too easy that even a summon can kill them.
I just don't like the four kings, too easy in NG then really difficult in NG+, I also don't like their grab move that is almost impossible to dodge plus I dislike new londo.
I won't say that O&S are the best in the series, I think Fume Knight is purely because O&S are bosses that would be easy one-on-one but made difficult in pairs and ornstein is an annoying little shit.
Capra demon is the most lol-worthy boss though because people keep claiming he is unfair but he's like the most fair boss.

 

[SionIV]

I like quelaag. I feel like she is a well done boss even though she one shots me in NG+. She has a very good moveset and a good character design. Priscilla is iffy, she is an annoyance and is too easy. If it wasn't for the going invisible thing, I would beat her everytime in less than a minute like I did to sif. The gargoyles are good too but I don't know if they would be put in a great category, they're too easy that even a summon can kill them.
I just don't like the four kings, too easy in NG then really difficult in NG+, I also don't like their grab move that is almost impossible to dodge plus I dislike new londo.
I won't say that O&S are the best in the series, I think Fume Knight is purely because O&S are bosses that would be easy one-on-one but made difficult in pairs and ornstein is an annoying little shit.
Capra demon is the most lol-worthy boss though because people keep claiming he is unfair but he's like the most fair boss.

Did you play with a heavy armor and hug the bosses on Four Kings? They aren't much more difficult in NG1 than they are in NG, it's first when you hit NG7 that they can be frustrating. A fully upgraded Black Iron Armor and a +15 Lightning/Chaos Zweihander/Greatsword makes the fight a breeze, even on NG1.

You think that getting locked into a small area with a Capra Demon and 2 dogs to interrupt you is fair? I'm not saying that he's unfair, but compared to the rest of the bosses in the game, he is most likely the least fair out of them all.

 

[sullynathan]

yeah, I played with heavy armor in NG and was over 50% and still beat them in like the 2nd try while on NG+, I had switch around. I never used Zweihander in any of the souls games because it is a dexterity weapon and I always go for strength builds.

For capra demon, you start with a roll or wrath of gods and just beat capra by yourself afterwards.

 

[SionIV]

yeah, I played with heavy armor in NG and was over 50% and still beat them in like the 2nd try while on NG+, I had switch around. I never used Zweihander in any of the souls games because it is a dexterity weapon and I always go for strength builds.

For capra demon, you start with a roll or wrath of gods and just beat capra by yourself afterwards.

0.01% or less of the playerbase will have Wrath of Gods when they beat Capra. The Zweihander isn't a dexterity weapon in any of the Souls games, it's a Quality weapon and a bad one (Scaling) at that. Both the Zweihander and Greatsword are low scaling quality weapons, and the reason people turn them into Lightning/Chaos is because they don't get a lot of scaling from stats to start with, but they have a very high base damage.

They are Ultra Greatswords, and require a rather high Strength to use if you're going to one hand them, which is why they get used in tank builds and even Strength builds. If I don't remember wrong, a +5 Chaos/+5 Lightning Zweihander will deal more damage at 30 STR than a +15 Man-Serpant Greatsword which has A scaling in Strength, because of the high base damage.

 

[sullynathan]

I have the strength, just that the scaling and shit doesn't look impressive so I never used it.

 

[SionIV]

I have the strength, just that the scaling and shit doesn't look impressive so I never used it.

The scaling isn't very impressive, I'll agree with that. It's hard to argue with a 325/325 +5 Lightning Zweihander with only 10 Dexterity and 16 Strength.

 

[sullynathan]

man, I'm just gonna farm and upgrade weapons again.

 

[Seaking4]

I get what that person was saying about the Four Kings in NG+. I was trying to fight the Four Kings at the beginning of my playthrough to see Kaithe but I kept getting wrecked. I thought the Four Kings weren't that hard on my non-NG+ playthroughs. Definitely a noticeable difficulty spike.

Lost Izalith only has one boss. Even if you choose to fold in Demons Ruins into Lost Izalith it's still pretty meh (although Demon Ruins isn't nearly as bad as Lost Izalith). It mostly consists of enemies you have fought before just in larger numbers. Even one of the Demon Ruins bosses is just a copy/paste of the first boss in the game.

So let's compare it to the other end game areas of the game.

Tomb of Giants - Only one boss.
The Duke's Archives - Only one boss.
The Abyss - Only one boss.

Lost Izalith isn't much worse than those areas. It does have an unfinished feel to it, but there are still many interesting things in that area and the boss while being frustration and based on shit design, is still unique.

I don't mind that it only has one boss. The post-Anor Londo content is not really up to par with the rest of the game so I'm not sure we should be comparing Lost Izalith to equally unimpressive content. Out of the four areas Lost Izalith is still the worst though. Tomb of the Giants and New Londo aren't as good as the things that came before but they are still enjoyable.

I just think many areas in DS2 crush Lost Izalith in terms of content and I'm not even counting the DLCs.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Still, worst zone in Dark Souls is better than the shit we got in Dark Souls 2.

lol Lost Izlith is so fucking shit that Miyazaki officially apologized for this shit being in game but keep spinning that "DS2 is worse than Hitler" meme

- It had some interesting bosses.

Bed of chaos interesting literally the worst boss in Souls games...

- One of the few areas where a bonefire was hidden away.

Like every second area in DS2 has hidden bonfire....

- It actually had a story behind it (compared to Tomb of Giants), with the witches and you'll even get a quest for the area.

Implying ToG did not have story with shit with Nito, Rhea, Pinwheel, Leeroy and plot to overthrow the gods

- You find Solaire there, and he has some very interesting interactions.

the most overrated npc in Souls games and right now literally meme character

 

[toro]

Don't hate Solaire, hate the idiots that cannot stop spamming Solaire memes.

 

[Wolfe]

I've been watching a friend play 2 and holy shit, the bosses in the first half are fucking easy and boring..