From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Invictus]

There are theories supporting both. Some say hollowing only happened as a result of Gwyn maliciously using humanity to link the fire. Others say there is no evidence that he actually did anything of the sort and hollowing is a natural consequence of the fading of the flame.

I'm with the later myself.

I myself think that Gwyn somehow found out that the Flame was feed with Humanity and that when it started to fade in some way it "corrupted" the humans goving them the curse and turning them hollow but that could also be done on purpose and controlled.
The whole Way of White and the Chosen Undead bullshit was his plan to have all those infected with the curse "feed" the flame... at least he did feed the flame too with his own life so that makes him a bit more noble since he is willing to do the sacrifice himself

 

[Excidium II]

Did you know that buffed up NG Artorias can one-shot a healthy, 30 Vitality (1100 HP) char in fully upgraded Elite-Knight Armor with his far away jumping attack?

I know now and am surprised.

I think mastering Artorias is a fun challenge. A really memorable boss, if a bit absurd with the somersaults.

Artorias and manus are great fights. Difficulty feels just right, unlike bullshit like fume knight.

 

[agentorange]

The whole Way of White and the Chosen Undead bullshit was his plan to have all those infected with the curse "feed" the flame... at least he did feed the flame too with his own life so that makes him a bit more noble since he is willing to do the sacrifice himself

why would he standing by the first flame and guarding it though? or make it so hard to reach the flame in the first place. just tell the undead that they won a free trip to an exotic location and then push them into the fire.

Iudex Gundyr is the perfect example of why the DS2 method is better for bossfights. Fucking guy has not one, but TWO longwinded animations that you can abuse for damage. You can empty your entire stamina bar R1 spamming at the start of the fight for 25 - 30% of his life. When he becomes a DragonBro, you can empty another entire stamina bar of R1's into him. Or throw 3 of those Firebombs you got behind the Spear and Crossbow Hollows right before him. Or flat out kill him if you took the Black Firebombs as your gift, which all Speed Runners do.

Imagine if this was the case for Smelter Demon, who has THREE pauses from self-buffing? If you could do full damage to him, it would be like fighting a boss with 50% less HP. Totally bogus. What if instead they went with a boss instabuffing himself, before skewering your undead ass to counter this cheap tactic? Fuckin' nerdrage and tears for days. And rightfully so.

Iudex Gundyr is a tutorial boss. Majority of the bosses in the DS3 will release a major damage aoe, one hit kill if you dont have much vit, when they go into their second form or when otherwise doing something that allow for free hits to punish such spamming attacks; but if you are careful you can get in a hit or two while they are charging-which is how it should be. A boss charging up or shifting phases should be like the player taking the time to drink estus or do a buff, they are taking a risk for a reward and there should be the opportunity to take advantage of it.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

The whole Way of White and the Chosen Undead bullshit was his plan to have all those infected with the curse "feed" the flame... at least he did feed the flame too with his own life so that makes him a bit more noble since he is willing to do the sacrifice himself

why would he standing by the first flame and guarding it though? or make it so hard to reach the flame in the first place. just tell the undead that they won a free trip to an exotic location and then push them into the fire.

I understood that all of the bonfires are extension of the first flame, and that when you feed one bonfire humanity a bit of it goes to the first flame.
However, sometimes that's not enough, and a big sacrifice is needed to kick start.
What's interesting to note is that bonfires are actually undead that have been sacrificed; if you look closely you'll see bones at the base of the bonfire. This is similar to how if you need the first flame back to full strength, you need a worthy sacrifice.

 

[Invictus]

Did you know that buffed up NG Artorias can one-shot a healthy, 30 Vitality (1100 HP) char in fully upgraded Elite-Knight Armor with his far away jumping attack?

I know now and am surprised.

I think mastering Artorias is a fun challenge. A really memorable boss, if a bit absurd with the somersaults.

Artorias and manus are great fights. Difficulty feels just right, unlike bullshit like fume knight.

What I didnt like about Artorias and Manus is that it set up this whole precedent of how most of their boss fights would be in the future; fast aggresive bosses who changed their style mid fight either by powering up or doing a new attack
As a whole I think the DLC bosses for Artorias are probably the best bosses in the series (The Guardian is sometimes forgotten but he is Excelent too, especially the fact that the cpmbat is done on water and he has his lightning effects) but they kind of lost perspective between having the boss be a "puzzle" you had to solve rather than how fast you learned his moveset and learned how to time your dodges
I just wished they had more Dragon Gods you had to figure out rather than straight up fight

 

[Black Angel]

I myself think that Gwyn somehow found out that the Flame was feed with Humanity and that when it started to fade in some way it "corrupted" the humans goving them the curse and turning them hollow but that could also be done on purpose and controlled.

I personally lean to the theory that the fading of the First Flame wouldn't really affect humans and any possessors of the Dark Souls in any way or even at all. There's much more plausible hints pointing toward the Darksign caused by unnaturally prolonging the Age of Fire by linking the First Flame, instead of just letting it die and, "the flames will fade and only Dark will remain."

 

[Excidium II]

Kaathe and the darkwraiths are the good guys.

 

[Invictus]

I myself think that Gwyn somehow found out that the Flame was feed with Humanity and that when it started to fade in some way it "corrupted" the humans goving them the curse and turning them hollow but that could also be done on purpose and controlled.

I personally lean to the theory that the fading of the First Flame wouldn't really affect humans and any possessors of the Dark Souls in any way or even at all. There's much more plausible hints pointing toward the Darksign caused by unnaturally prolonging the Age of Fire by linking the First Flame, instead of just letting it die and, "the flames will fade and only Dark will remain."

It sort of sounds like the life cycle of a star; it burns, eventually it fades, transforms into a black hole sucking everything around it into itself and after that it collapses; then it reignites again as a new star
Maybe all life (or at least the most powerful forces) need to be "sucked in" to the Ashes to reignite it one once more that os what the linking does but everytime it is a little weaker

 

[Excidium II]

I don't get it, what's so great about Artorias? I fought him a couple of days ago for the first time and was really excited for the fight because every discussion about DaS ever hyped him to Heaven and back. He isn't particularly hard or interesting and from Demon's Souls alone, the Penetrator would wipe the floor with him. I suppose it's because I didn't play this when it came out though, so I can't appreciate the context.

It's a cool fight against a boss that has a fun moveset. Also a p. cool character.

 

[Invictus]

It's a cool fight against a boss that has a fun moveset. Also a p. cool character.

I don't dispute this, he has the cool factor through the roof. Like I said, maybe because I went through the series ass backwards (BB->DaS3->DeS->DaS1) stole some of the magic. Then again I'll take Artorias everyday over the bosses in 3 where everybody and their grandmother has 7 hit combos with hit boxes the size of China and delayed attacks that make everything a matter of memorizing timings or bringing a shield the size of the Empire State Building.

Yeah if you played the games backwards then he probably is not very special since he and Manus were template for most of the bosses after Dark Souls... you effectively cheated yourself

 

[agentorange]

The whole Way of White and the Chosen Undead bullshit was his plan to have all those infected with the curse "feed" the flame... at least he did feed the flame too with his own life so that makes him a bit more noble since he is willing to do the sacrifice himself

why would he standing by the first flame and guarding it though? or make it so hard to reach the flame in the first place. just tell the undead that they won a free trip to an exotic location and then push them into the fire.

I understood that all of the bonfires are extension of the first flame, and that when you feed one bonfire humanity a bit of it goes to the first flame.
However, sometimes that's not enough, and a big sacrifice is needed to kick start.
What's interesting to note is that bonfires are actually undead that have been sacrificed; if you look closely you'll see bones at the base of the bonfire. This is similar to how if you need the first flame back to full strength, you need a worthy sacrifice.

Yeah I mostly see it that way. Except I think a main theme of the series is that the first fire can never be brought back to full strength. It's like every time the fire is about to die out is like the universe being about to die, every reality and time period converging, but then it is jumpstarted through a sacrifice, only every time this is done there is a little bit less energy, each iteration of the universe is more demented and corrupted.

Kaathe and the darkwraiths are the good guys.

Yeah, people cling to the fire despite all the signs of the world going to shit because of it. I think this is the reason the firekeepers are blinded, so they don't see the corrupted world around them and instead will always insist that the fire be lit. I think the point of the world of darkness is that man would finally have to make their own fires instead of relying on the gods.

 

[Arnust]

Boring. In other news, the best thing that has come out of DS3 has a sequel.

 

[sullynathan]

I don't get it, what's so great about Artorias? I fought him a couple of days ago for the first time and was really excited for the fight because every discussion about DaS ever hyped him to Heaven and back. He isn't particularly hard or interesting and from Demon's Souls alone, the Penetrator would wipe the floor with him. I suppose it's because I didn't play this when it came out though, so I can't appreciate the context.

you're also a retard that thinks Demons Souls is one of the best games of this series

 

[Black Angel]

It sort of sounds like the life cycle of a star; it burns, eventually it fades, transforms into a black hole sucking everything around it into itself and after that it collapses; then it reignites again as a new star
Maybe all life (or at least the most powerful forces) need to be "sucked in" to the Ashes to reignite it one once more that os what the linking does but everytime it is a little weaker

That's only if we include the information from Dark Souls 2 and Dark Souls 3. If we go only by Dark Souls 1 alone, the implication of a cycle would only appear when we start NG+. Sorta like in Dragon's Dogma, where in NG+ (or something like that), the final boss would be your previous character.

you're also a retard that thinks Demons Souls is one of the best games of this series

There are certainly many best aspects of Demon's Souls that's missing from the later entries. Although, mostly it's just that your first Souls(borne) games is your best game in the series.

 

[Invictus]

Mmm lets see Preator will say that Dark Souls 2 is the best in the series and all that good stuff but for my money this is how I would rank the Souls series
Dark Souls
Demons Souls
Bloodbourne
Dark Souls 3
Dark Souls 2
Even the perceived ugly ducking of the bunch is a pretty damn good game still

 

[Arnust]

Although, mostly it's just that your first Souls(borne) games is your best game in the series.

Except not. This isn't Fallout. People really "get" Dark Souls the second time. That CAN also mean a second playthrough, but it's uncommon. There's also some people that were let down by that second game and found solace in the last. Like moi.
It's not like that people don't tune with the first time, but... How can you do that without considering the others...? Oooh! Posering and fanboyism! :D

 

[janior]

I don't get it, what's so great about Artorias? I fought him a couple of days ago for the first time and was really excited for the fight because every discussion about DaS ever hyped him to Heaven and back. He isn't particularly hard or interesting and from Demon's Souls alone, the Penetrator would wipe the floor with him. I suppose it's because I didn't play this when it came out though, so I can't appreciate the context.

Artorias is cool cause he is like Guts from Berserk.

 

[Black Angel]

Except not. This isn't Fallout. People really "get" Dark Souls the second time. That CAN also mean a second playthrough, but it's uncommon. There's also some people that were let down by that second game and found solace in the last. Like moi.

It kinda is. There are a lot of people who get into these games through Bloodborne first, and just can't handle the slow and methodical aspects of Dark 1 and Dark 2. Meanwhile, some people started with the slow and methodical combat and just can't catch up with the fast pace of BB. Not all people like that, but there's still a lot of them.

Personally, I'm doing fine going back and forth between Dark 1 and BB. I also "get" Dark Souls the first time I played it.

 

[agentorange]

 

[cvv]

It's a cool fight against a boss that has a fun moveset. Also a p. cool character.

I don't dispute this, he has the cool factor through the roof. Like I said, maybe because I went through the series ass backwards (BB->DaS3->DeS->DaS1) stole some of the magic. Then again I'll take Artorias everyday over the bosses in 3 where everybody and their grandmother has 7 hit combos with hit boxes the size of China and delayed attacks that make everything a matter of memorizing timings or bringing a shield the size of the Empire State Building.

Yeah if you played the games backwards then he probably is not very special since he and Manus were template for most of the bosses after Dark Souls

This. Artorias was the first archetypal fight against a single, fast, jumping humanoid opponent. It's a fantastic archetype if there are two or three of those in a game. It becomes fucking irritating if From absolutely stuffs a game with them because the hardcore community keeps bitching about all other boss fight archetypes being "gimmicky".

God I love the pro Soulers but their constant drivel about "gimmicky" fights gets on my fucking nerves.

 

[praetor]

Mmm lets see Preator will say that Dark Souls 2 is the best in the series and all that good stuff

i see you haven't changed and still are an illiterate moron. i have never, in my whole life, ever claimed DaS2 was the best in the series. i was quite explicit, multiple times at that, in saying that i find DaS1 to be by far the best. are these simple enough words for you to understand or do i need to write something like this for your single functioning neuron to process it: D0rk SolZ 1 iz da BESTEST EVAH!!1!111!1!

 

[Arnust]

Lore discussion? Let's ask resident Cleric Licia of Lindelt:

L: What is the First Flame?
Well, it's…
Hmm, you're not ready to comprehend it, I'm afraid!
You require more faith! And more miracles. Many more miracles!
Interviewer: Thanks, Licia.

Next on, we have Straid of Olaphis:

SoO: Some people would rather keep dreadful things out of sight, out of mind.
In the end they swept them up and corralled them here.
So very typical of meek minds, don't you think?
Interviewer: Uh, what about the lore?
SoO: Legends are legends.
What are you prepared to believe? Heh heh…
Interviewer: Well, thanks for your time-
SoO: Cursed one, you lack intelligence.
Weak, so terribly weak…
Heh heh heh…
Feeble cursed one!

Interviewer: This is Melentia, merchant hag. What do you think of the inhabitants of Majula?
M: Everyone's so stingy around here.
Everyone's so stingy everywhere!

Interviewer: Well, that's all for the week ladies and sirs. Next on, the Scholar of The First Sin and maybe Steady Hand McDuff.

 

[Invictus]

Mmm lets see Preator will say that Dark Souls 2 is the best in the series and all that good stuff

i see you haven't changed and still are an illiterate moron. i have never, in my whole life, ever claimed DaS2 was the best in the series. i was quite explicit, multiple times at that, in saying that i find DaS1 to be by far the best. are these simple enough words for you to understand or do i need to write something like this for your single functioning neuron to process it: D0rk SolZ 1 iz da BESTEST EVAH!!1!111!1!

I change by not changing at all... butthurt predicts your fate
perhaps praetor just wants to whine
Oh I just want to say
"Declineeeee"
All jokes aside I am too lazy to dig up all your butthurt from the DS2 thread where you say that the DLC makes it the best evah Souls game but whatever

 

[praetor]

Mmm lets see Preator will say that Dark Souls 2 is the best in the series and all that good stuff

i see you haven't changed and still are an illiterate moron. i have never, in my whole life, ever claimed DaS2 was the best in the series. i was quite explicit, multiple times at that, in saying that i find DaS1 to be by far the best. are these simple enough words for you to understand or do i need to write something like this for your single functioning neuron to process it: D0rk SolZ 1 iz da BESTEST EVAH!!1!111!1!

I change by not changing at all... butthurt predicts your fate
perhaps praetor just wants to whine
Oh I just want to say
"Declineeeee"
All jokes aside I am too lazy to dig up all your butthurt from the DS2 thread where you say that the DLC makes it the best evah Souls game but whatever

thanks for reiterating you have exactly 0 reading comprehension skills. you learned your english from the garbage they throw over the border in mexicostan? i have never said such a thing. i merely defended the game from braindead idiots who criticised the game unfairly since most who did simply regurgitated falsities spread during the release over and over again, as forming a coherent, independent opinion requires the mental capacity of at least the average 12 year old, something you (and many others) clearly do not possess

 

[Invictus]

Mmm lets see Preator will say that Dark Souls 2 is the best in the series and all that good stuff

i see you haven't changed and still are an illiterate moron. i have never, in my whole life, ever claimed DaS2 was the best in the series. i was quite explicit, multiple times at that, in saying that i find DaS1 to be by far the best. are these simple enough words for you to understand or do i need to write something like this for your single functioning neuron to process it: D0rk SolZ 1 iz da BESTEST EVAH!!1!111!1!

I change by not changing at all... butthurt predicts your fate
perhaps praetor just wants to whine
Oh I just want to say
"Declineeeee"
All jokes aside I am too lazy to dig up all your butthurt from the DS2 thread where you say that the DLC makes it the best evah Souls game but whatever

thanks for reiterating you have exactly 0 reading comprehension skills. you learned your english from the garbage they throw over the border in mexicostan? i have never said such a thing. i merely defended the game from braindead idiots who criticised the game unfairly since most who did simply regurgitated falsities spread during the release over and over again, as forming a coherent, independent opinion requires the mental capacity of at least the average 12 year old, something you (and many others) clearly do not possess

Moar
Moar
:mrpresident: