From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Somberlain]

Dark Souls is the most hardkore game series evar and Bamco UK marketing team knows it.

 

[Wunderbar]

That aside, if you're really wanting to show off the size of your e-peen, the covenant choice for you was the Champions covenant. It blocks co-op summoning - you can't summon help or be summoned (but you can still be invaded), and is a slight difficulty tweak upwards (you do less damage, enemies do more damage).

Wtf, I didn't know that. I joined it just because I liked the badge. Had no idea it changed the damage of everyone.

it literally tells you that game will become harder.

 

[L'Montes]

That aside, if you're really wanting to show off the size of your e-peen, the covenant choice for you was the Champions covenant. It blocks co-op summoning - you can't summon help or be summoned (but you can still be invaded), and is a slight difficulty tweak upwards (you do less damage, enemies do more damage).

Wtf, I didn't know that. I joined it just because I liked the badge. Had no idea it changed the damage of everyone.

IIRC, it also increases aggro range and reverts the enemy respawn system to the way it's in the other games. Iron Keep will be a...memorable experience.

Learn something new everyday, first I've heard about the aggro-range tweak (or I hadn't noticed it). It seems like Wikidot and Fextra disagree on it being a thing?

The souls series has had an AI "issue" of sorts (if you can call it that) where enemies are leashed to a given spawn point and will only wander away from it so far before the AI forces them to turn around and go back. Going all the way back to Demon's Souls, people have abused this for free hits on enemies, etc.

IIRC, there were some tech limitations/differences in the engine in the vanilla release of Dark Souls 2 vs. the "upgraded" SotFS version. So, with the engine less hamstrung by working around 360/PS3 hardware restrictions, enemies could chase further from their zone and be a bit less likely to "forget" you in a given range. All that to say, I don't recall Champions tweaking aggro exactly, but my recollection might have been mixed up with the AI changes in SotFS. I didn't bother with Champions or the no-death/bonfire runs till that release.

I'd been a bit conflicted since release on whether enemies despawning was a difficulty nerf or boost. Yeah, you can get the entire area cleared before a boss, but you also effectively nerf farming of "easier" enemies. Champions would lead you to believe if was meant to make things easier (since it doesn't happen if you join). At the same time though, it makes Champions (the difficulty covenant) a means for getting access to drops that are otherwise limited. They probably could've gotten around that if they nerfed drop-rates/souls gained, etc. past the despawn threshold.

 

[Average Manatee]

I'd been a bit conflicted since release on whether enemies despawning was a difficulty nerf or boost. Yeah, you can get the entire area cleared before a boss, but you also effectively nerf farming of "easier" enemies. Champions would lead you to believe if was meant to make things easier (since it doesn't happen if you join). At the same time though, it makes Champions (the difficulty covenant) a means for getting access to drops that are otherwise limited. They probably could've gotten around that if they nerfed drop-rates/souls gained, etc. past the despawn threshold.

No one farms common enemies for souls, soul farming goes for bosses. Which I quite like, fighting bosses again for more rewards is a good idea that should have stayed around. Only reason to farm common enemies is vanity items (armor).

 

[L'Montes]

I'd been a bit conflicted since release on whether enemies despawning was a difficulty nerf or boost. Yeah, you can get the entire area cleared before a boss, but you also effectively nerf farming of "easier" enemies. Champions would lead you to believe if was meant to make things easier (since it doesn't happen if you join). At the same time though, it makes Champions (the difficulty covenant) a means for getting access to drops that are otherwise limited. They probably could've gotten around that if they nerfed drop-rates/souls gained, etc. past the despawn threshold.

No one farms common enemies for souls, soul farming goes for bosses. Which I quite like, fighting bosses again for more rewards is a good idea that should have stayed around. Only reason to farm common enemies is vanity items (armor).

People that are shit at the game and mechanics will farm whatever they can. Yes, yes - people should "git gud" and certain methods of farming are going to be more efficient. I know that. Most of the other posters here know that (maybe not Porky). But plenty of people are shit at combat, panic and do stupid things, and die repeatedly at things you would consider relatively easy. They may not understand co-op well, or die quickly in the games of others. I've heard people on mic say things about Dragonrider being bullshit because the player had blocked all his attacks but the bullshit boss broke his block.

You don't have to take my word for it though, I'm sure most of us have been summoned by some player who is in Not-a-starting-area, but somehow seems inexplicably completely incompetent at handling enemies. So, maybe they managed to muscle their way through the undead hollows, etc., but once faced with enemies that rush and explode at them or repeatedly chop with a cleaver, their brain shuts down. Maybe they just got carried by someone furiously stroking their e-peen for them. So, they try to grind somewhere earlier where they could still *manage* the content.

For example, the big blue knights in Heide are slow, easily circle-strafed to kill, and give a relatively good-sized hunk of souls. A new player getting to Pirates of the Caribbean themepark area might die several times to pirates + arrows, or whatever, and decide they need to be higher level. So, they fall back to Heide, and try to grind on the things they could kill. The dynamics of this actually changed a fair bit in SotFS with the enemy placement tweaks though.

If the change from DS1-style was to prevent that, a person would effectively be capped on how much grinding they could do in the area on the enemies because they'd despawn them all. Then they're *forced* to go to a new area. You could also take Soul memory to be a mechanic that accomplishes this in a roundabout way for other farmers. At some point you accrue enough SM that you're not getting summoned anymore (or able to summon) in a given area. If you didn't get enough souls before you despawned/went-out-of-range before then (or if you lost all the souls to death), then you're fucked. Well, you're fucked in the sense of using them to compensate for your skills.

There's a meta aspect to it too perhaps. The mechanics of this aren't exactly posted in giant glowing letters in-game or load-screen messages. Even people that are aware that it happens may not recall how many kills it requires, if it's the same per enemy type, that a covenant reverses it, etc.

 

[Average Manatee]

But looking at it from the developer's point of view, if they cared about limiting farming then why would they then let you farm bosses and respawn all enemies through the ascetics anyway?

 

[Black Angel]

You don't have to take my word for it though, I'm sure most of us have been summoned by some player who is in Not-a-starting-area, but somehow seems inexplicably completely incompetent at handling enemies. So, maybe they managed to muscle their way through the undead hollows, etc., but once faced with enemies that rush and explode at them or repeatedly chop with a cleaver, their brain shuts down. Maybe they just got carried by someone furiously stroking their e-peen for them. So, they try to grind somewhere earlier where they could still *manage* the content.

Heh, reminds me of this

 

[L'Montes]

But looking at it from the developer's point of view, if they cared about limiting farming then why would they then let you farm bosses and respawn all enemies through the ascetics anyway?

I think it's possible they may have wanted disincentivize/limit lower-risk farming for easy souls early on. That sentiment of, "I'll stay here, because it's easier." This rationale applies less in the late-game (and soul memory is also relaxed there).

Bonfire Ascetics and Champions both gel with this. Bonfire Ascetics will increase the difficulty of everything, they're also limited (relatively) early in the game. Champions only respawn regular enemies (not bosses), and also increase the difficulty.

So, they'll let you farm, but they want it to be something you pay for with higher difficulty and consumption of resources (apparently). I think they wanted bonfire ascetics to be both limited *and* a risk/reward situation. They goofed in the launch release cause there was an easy method to get infinite ascetics (iirc). SotFS alters it somewhat, but they're still pretty easy to get later on. There's definitely intent there though I think, to limit farming or tie it to increasing costs in one way or another (difficulty, SM tier, ascetics, etc.).

This is a running theme with a lot of developers though, where they have some theoretical way they expect the player to approach the game, and they may or may not adapt to how real players actually do so. They may also try to "encourage" you to play a certain way. It can be hard to parse intent sometimes, since the developers are often circumspect in explaining design choices. This is just a theory of mine as well, because I see despawning more frequently referenced as a difficulty-release valve.

 

[Silva]

Anyone who likes Soulsborne combat should seriously consider For Honor at this point.

I swear it's not trolling. The game is much improved since its disastrous launch and is actually very good right now.

 

[sullynathan]

For Honor feels like a turn based game is PvP from what I played, but it did feel good.

 

[yellowcake]

Guys I'm going to start playing DS for the first time and would like your recommendations on build plus few starting tips to get me going. I haven't been playing that much for a few years now, last year upgraded my rig after a long time and completed Witcher 3 and Nier Automata and this year clocked 120 hrs in Dragon's Dogma. I got stuck in Bitterblack Isle couple of months ago - I guess it is too nerve wrecking for me now. I need to "finish" it though - love it to bits. Tried Prey but I HATE its Art Deco art direction, it just seems inappropriate style for this game. I have never played any other DS game nor any other Japanese console games except these stated here. I've got XBox controller I got for NA which I intend to use.

Anyway, I want to play a genuine masterpiece and heard good things about DS. I've got the old version in my steam library and don't intend to get the new release. I should think a build like Sargon in Severance - BoD is what I need here - which means easy but allowing to explore game's depths and soak its mood. And yeah I've done BoD at least seven times when it came out. It's in my top ten.

So please advise.

 

[L'Montes]

Classic Dark Souls 1 build would be something like a knight with a kite shield + longsword, just like the guy on the box.

Dark Souls 1 is famous/infamous a bit for the poise system, the combat being occasionally ponderous, and the relative value in blocking compared to some of the other entries.

At the same time, the basic longsword is upgradable, but not a ridiculously OP weapon in the way it kinda became in Dark Souls 3. The Tower (or Caduceus) Kite Shield is a decently high stability shield... but not one that gets to cheese levels really.

...

It's a middle-ground approach to the game where you can both abuse the poise system, sword-n-board mechanics, and blocking... but you won't be cheesing it with magic or broken weapons/armor sets. You can dabble in parrying, etc. It's a good way to experience the game for the first time, imho.

That's just my take on it though.

 

[praetor]

yellowcake the gist of it is this:

do not ever put any point in Resistance

stats soft cap at ~40

endurance and one offensive stat (dex or str) should be your top priorities, with vitality close behind (you can ignore vitality on later playthroughs)

if you want to try a bit of pyromancy, it doesn't require any stat investment other than attunement to be able to equip a spell or two. it's always good to have a pyro spell or two handy (or at least a bow)

as far as equipment goes, pick something you like (moveset, reach, stamina drain, weight, etc), and upgrade it. the vast majority is viable for PvE so don't fuss too much about stats

you should upgrade your armour only after you've upgraded all the weapons you like

edit: it wouldn't be a bad idea for your first playthrough to just not care much about stats (get 27-40 str and 40 dex), and just try to get as many weapons as possible to see and experiment what you like and what you don't like, so that you can "optimise" for later playthroughs when you can be more "focused"

 

[No Great Name]

Guys I'm going to start playing DS for the first time and would like your recommendations on build plus few starting tips to get me going. I haven't been playing that much for a few years now, last year upgraded my rig after a long time and completed Witcher 3 and Nier Automata and this year clocked 120 hrs in Dragon's Dogma. I got stuck in Bitterblack Isle couple of months ago - I guess it is too nerve wrecking for me now. I need to "finish" it though - love it to bits. Tried Prey but I HATE its Art Deco art direction, it just seems inappropriate style for this game. I have never played any other DS game nor any other Japanese console games except these stated here. I've got XBox controller I got for NA which I intend to use.

Anyway, I want to play a genuine masterpiece and heard good things about DS. I've got the old version in my steam library and don't intend to get the new release. I should think a build like Sargon in Severance - BoD is what I need here - which means easy but allowing to explore game's depths and soak its mood. And yeah I've done BoD at least seven times when it came out. It's in my top ten.

So please advise.

Don't put any points into resistance, prioritize upgrading your weapon over leveling up whenever you can, and don't be afraid to turn around and return to an area later if you find it to be hard. Everything else you can learn as you go.

EDIT: Beaten by praetor on the first point.

 

[Average Manatee]

Classic Dark Souls 1 build would be something like a knight with a kite shield + longsword, just like the guy on the box.

Any kind of "realistic" build plays well. Sword and shield, spear and shield, two-handed halberd, etc. Just avoid gamey things like absurdly big weapons, parry/dagger-type play, or magic.

Not having a good balance (both in terms of utility and style) across basic weapons is a major flaw of later games.

 

[sullynathan]

Just have fun, is that so hard?

 

[Somberlain]

First we have to ask the question: what is fun?

 

[Hyperion]

Guys I'm going to start playing DS for the first time and would like your recommendations on build plus few starting tips to get me going.

FIRE UP THE BASS CANNON.

 

[Black Angel]

pump str to 16 (2 handing adds a 50% bonus to your str), 1 to dex so you can wield it.

DON'T TELL ANY1 U LEVELED THAT UP, U FUCKIGN FAGGOT

 

[yellowcake]

Allright guys, thanks for the tips. Got back from work and played two hours, getting used to controls and mostly dying. I was convinced I had to fight the asylum demon the first time I met him with only a piece of a sword - it is supposed to be a difficult game so that's to be expected, then I noticed the open portcullis in the corner.

I kinda see where this is going. I like the combat system a lot with what I've seen so far which is not much. I smacked the skinny guys easily first time, then got killed by the guy I'm supposed to learn how to parry, next time skinny guys smacked me back pretty quick then I realized there is a lock on enemy button which should be pretty handful since I have a big problem with positioning my character against an enemy.

Anyway, I have a technical question - should I uncap the framerate and go for 60 FPS? Does this break the game often?

 

[Ninjerk]

Allright guys, thanks for the tips. Got back from work and played two hours, getting used to controls and mostly dying. I was convinced I had to fight the asylum demon the first time I met him with only a piece of a sword - it is supposed to be a difficult game so that's to be expected, then I noticed the open portcullis in the corner.

I kinda see where this is going. I like the combat system a lot with what I've seen so far which is not much. I smacked the skinny guys easily first time, then got killed by the guy I'm supposed to learn how to parry, next time skinny guys smacked me back pretty quick then I realized there is a lock on enemy button which should be pretty handful since I have a big problem with positioning my character against an enemy.

Anyway, I have a technical question - should I uncap the framerate and go for 60 FPS? Does this break the game often?

I didn't have a problem with 60 FPS, although it did cause my Blighttown experience to differ significantly with the console version.

 

[Matador]

Guys I'm going to start playing DS for the first time and would like your recommendations on build plus few starting tips to get me going. I haven't been playing that much for a few years now, last year upgraded my rig after a long time and completed Witcher 3 and Nier Automata and this year clocked 120 hrs in Dragon's Dogma. I got stuck in Bitterblack Isle couple of months ago - I guess it is too nerve wrecking for me now. I need to "finish" it though - love it to bits. Tried Prey but I HATE its Art Deco art direction, it just seems inappropriate style for this game. I have never played any other DS game nor any other Japanese console games except these stated here. I've got XBox controller I got for NA which I intend to use.

Anyway, I want to play a genuine masterpiece and heard good things about DS. I've got the old version in my steam library and don't intend to get the new release. I should think a build like Sargon in Severance - BoD is what I need here - which means easy but allowing to explore game's depths and soak its mood. And yeah I've done BoD at least seven times when it came out. It's in my top ten.

So please advise.

Install this. Unplayable port otherwise.


https://www.nexusmods.com/darksouls/mods/19

Guide to config it, although is pretty easy to install:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=381735293

"Anyway, I have a technical question - should I uncap the framerate and go for 60 FPS? Does this break the game often?"

It breaks a few very specific jumps you can do to get to some tricky areas. But you can play with it 99% of the time.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I think 60 FPS might interfere with some gameplay mechanics, which are designed around 30FPS. For example, let's say you have a parry window of 10 frames. With 30FPS, that's 1/3rd of a second, but at 60FPS, it might become 1/6th of a second, so you would have to be that much more precise to get it right.

Maybe that's not how it works exactly, I am not sure, but in a challenging and exact game like this, I would suggest staying at 30fps.

 

[Ninjerk]

Oh, I didn't see that he had the old version.

 

[Average Manatee]

I think 60 FPS might interfere with some gameplay mechanics, which are designed around 30FPS. For example, let's say you have a parry window of 10 frames. With 30FPS, that's 1/3rd of a second, but at 60FPS, it might become 1/6th of a second, so you would have to be that much more precise to get it right.

Maybe that's not how it works exactly, I am not sure, but in a challenging and exact game like this, I would suggest staying at 30fps.

Nah, at most you'd have rounding errors, e.g. 10 frames parry window would become 21 or 19 frames. If it worked liked that then everything would just run 2x as fast.

The only real problem is that there's one specific ladder that you can't slide down or you'll go through the floor into the void. It is a ladder you are not likely to slide down though (the ladder in undead burg you take up after going under the dragon bridge and fighting the rats). I'm pretty sure that's the only ladder but I'm not sure.