From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[Seigneur Voland]

I think Pyromancy should have remained as the statless magic type (aside from Attunement, obviously). Having two INT+FAITH magic types, even if Hexes work a little distinctly, feels redundant to me.

Or they could have linked the magic school to its own Attribute in DS II & III, for a total of 10. This would also prevent a Pyromancer to be able to cast everything.

At the end, there are no "Pyromancers" in these two games, just smoked spellcasters only limited by the number of slots.

 

[Beggar]

For fucks sake, pages of pages about magic builds. You should be ashamed of yourselves

 

[Hassar]

I don't think that pyromancy flames is exactly a "glove" , IMO is just a magical fire, since weights nothing and don't prevent you from using other gloves. About on DS3, i found pyromancy the unique magical type who is viable for the game. Sorceries are slow as hell in a game where everything is about speed. On DS2, the main advantage of pyro is that your hexer, your sorcerer and your cleric can be good at it...

Yes, and Dark Souls’ description of it clearly states that it is a flame that is used to generate pyromancy effects not a glove: “Flame medium used by Great Swamp pyromancers. Pyromancers arouse this flame to produce various fire arts. Equip pyromancer flame to produce pyromancy.”

Probably conceptually more like giving up holding something in one hand in favor of levitating a dynamic energy source over that hand’s palm.

 

[Squid]

For fucks sake, pages of pages about magic builds. You should be ashamed of yourselves

EDIT: does this shit load now?

 

[Silva]

And that's why Bloodborne has the best, non-abuseable gameplay in the series. You can't hide behind a shield, nor magic-rape enemies, in it.

 

[cvv]

And that's why Bloodborne has the best, non-abuseable gameplay in the series. You can't hide behind a shield, nor magic-rape enemies, in it.

Bloodborne has great gameplay but they also solved the illness by killing the patient. Shield and magic too OP? Remove both. You get rid of the problem but you also severely cut down build options.

 

[Hyperion]

Uh....Bloodborne had magic.

 

[Silva]

Well, everything has pros and cons.

(and BB magic is very different and not as OP as in DS).

 

[Silva]

love Dks 2 but one thing makes no sense.

Hexes and Pyromancies. If you build a hexer, he will inevitable become good at pyromancies too and thats makes no sense.

DS2 makes no sense.

 

[cvv]

Hexes and Pyromancies. If you build a hexer, he will inevitable become good at pyromancies too and thats makes no sense.

In general build balancing is hard and FromSoft made it even harder for themselves by merging PvE and PvP into one. Most games keep those two sensibly apart and I guess even FromSoft finally realized it's a fool's errand because Sekiro.

I think if they didn't have to mesh the PvE and PvP balancing those flaws like you mention would've been way less pronounced or even eliminated.

 

[Dyskolos]

I guess even FromSoft finally realized it's a fool's errand because Sekiro.

Except Sekiro is the one game where they wouldn't have had to worry about balancing since there is no weapon variability. If they leveled prayer bead gains on invasion then tools would've been the only variable.

 

[Cryomancer]

In general build balancing is hard and FromSoft made it even harder for themselves by merging PvE and PvP into one. Most games keep those two sensibly apart and I guess even FromSoft finally realized it's a fool's errand because Sekiro.

Balancing should't be more important than replayability, immersion, challenge, etc. Some builds are far easier to do PvE content like a Spearman Hexer or a Paladin than a unarmored swordsman for eg and it makes perfectly sense.

 

[Alkarl]

The pvp in these games, excluding Demon's Souls, never gave me the impression it was little more than tacked on. I don't really think they consider balance, they seem to nerf what is popular and buff other things almost at random. Despite this, there are a few things in each game that still remain obsurdly op, pve and pvp -wise.
Pvp is a meme anyway. When you aren't invading into a pw summoned, mob cleared gank world, you'll be getting one-shot from across the map by someone on the other side of the planet, or murdered by move-swap or face back-stabbu, or the coveted summoner class, chain back stab, twinks, cheat-engine fuck bois, etc.
It's sometimes fun to watch chase, fighter, or ouroboro, but I personally have neither the patience nor the will to learn every single weapon move-set, spacing, dead angles, etc. This isn't to say that I don't or can't enjoy it, but it just isn't as much fun anymore when 90% of the time you're invading someone looking to be invaded due to the way these games have casualized the online component. You can open yourself up at anytime, so why would anyone not wait until they're at the fog door? And if you do manage to invade someone, the second they realize they aren't gonna win this one: alt+f4. I'm guessing FROM doesn't have the answers anymore. Too much catering to people who come for the Berserk co-op cosplay and move onto something else before passing the midpoint.
Souls itself is a damn meme anymore anyway. Should change the franchise name to: undead burg, forest, swamp, poison area, lava area, castle area, church area at this point.
Dark Souls 4: Prepare to Yawn Edition
Dark Souls 5: Patches Strikes Back
Dark Souls 6: We Ran Out of Ideas 8 Games Ago Edition

 

[Gerrard]

The co-op in DS also sucks, because you can't actually progress through the game together, only the hosts game progresses.

 

[sullynathan]

The pvp in these games, excluding Demon's Souls, never gave me the impression it was little more than tacked on.

Demon's Souls PvP was shit though (outside of the one boss), I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Alkarl]

The pvp in these games, excluding Demon's Souls, never gave me the impression it was little more than tacked on.

Demon's Souls PvP was shit though (outside of the one boss), I don't know what you're talking about.

I think it's pretty brilliant. I know the actual ENGAGEMENT of pvp in Demon's wasn't much better than most other Souls, but it's everything else around it. The world and character tendency system was great, it made the online interactions more than just skin deep. Kill enough BP in your world and you start to get white world tendency events, die enough and lose your body and your world becomes black and more difficult. The lame part was resetting WT to the server default when you quit and the dupe glitch killing balance on stones (of ephemeral eyes or whatever they were called).

But it felt like you really had an impact on someone elses experience more than just killing them and dropping shit on their corpse, not to mention continued invasions would push you more towards black character tendency and all of those draw backs. Being a murderer seemed to have as many consequences as being murdered. It was great and sadly never expanded.

Instead they started dumbing down the pvp aspect. Covenants were a good addition, but I can't help but see their rewards as lesser versions of what the WT already offered, except with WT it had more charm. And WT could still be manipulated offline just like covenant items can be farmed if you'd rather not bother. Except I feel like the rewards of one are far more interesting than the other. Being given a spell or weapon because you handed in 30 doodads is really just a job, anyone can do it given enough time and patience, but pushing WT took care and thought and some practice too.

 

[Cryomancer]

No souls game has a better PvP than DS2. Even pure RP builds can do well... If he could put tatoos on the Portugas D Ace, he would create a perfectly in game cosplay and this armorless dagger and pyro flame only build is doing well

 

[sullynathan]

The pvp in these games, excluding Demon's Souls, never gave me the impression it was little more than tacked on.

Demon's Souls PvP was shit though (outside of the one boss), I don't know what you're talking about.

I think it's pretty brilliant. I know the actual ENGAGEMENT of pvp in Demon's wasn't much better than most other Souls, but it's everything else around it. The world and character tendency system was great, it made the online interactions more than just skin deep. Kill enough BP in your world and you start to get white world tendency events, die enough and lose your body and your world becomes black and more difficult. The lame part was resetting WT to the server default when you quit and the dupe glitch killing balance on stones (of ephemeral eyes or whatever they were called).

But it felt like you really had an impact on someone elses experience more than just killing them and dropping shit on their corpse, not to mention continued invasions would push you more towards black character tendency and all of those draw backs. Being a murderer seemed to have as many consequences as being murdered. It was great and sadly never expanded.

Instead they started dumbing down the pvp aspect. Covenants were a good addition, but I can't help but see their rewards as lesser versions of what the WT already offered, except with WT it had more charm. And WT could still be manipulated offline just like covenant items can be farmed if you'd rather not bother. Except I feel like the rewards of one are far more interesting than the other. Being given a spell or weapon because you handed in 30 doodads is really just a job, anyone can do it given enough time and patience, but pushing WT took care and thought and some practice too.

World tendency is completely broken. Did you play it any recently before the servers were shut down? I know some of these things sound good in discussions but in practice things didn't work well in Demon's Souls.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Vety broken indeed, I had to complete the game in offline mode just to see content that effected by world tendency.

 

[Gearmos]

love Dks 2 but one thing makes no sense.

Hexes and Pyromancies. If you build a hexer, he will inevitable become good at pyromancies too and thats makes no sense.

You can also combine pyromancy with magic or miracles, as it scales well with INT + FTH =60. But, in my opinion, pyromance is of little use in PVE in this game as it has many AoE spells and few (strong) fireball types. A hex with INT + FTH = 60 can do a lot of damage with dark orbs, and can accumulate up to four in its first game. AoE pyromancies are very useful, though.

 

[Alkarl]

World tendency is completely broken. Did you play it any recently before the servers were shut down? I know some of these things sound good in discussions but in practice things didn't work well in Demon's Souls.

Yeah, true. Like I said, I really wish they had kept working at this idea. Resetting everyones WT to a default was a really dumb idea on FROM's part.

Rose-tinted glasses I guess.

 

[Garbage]

Snip

As much shit as I give it (because it is a fucking awful game), DS2 has really good PvP and build varieties though.

 

[Average Manatee]

No souls game has a better PvP than DS2. Even pure RP builds can do well... If he could put tatoos on the Portugas D Ace, he would create a perfectly in game cosplay and this armorless dagger and pyro flame only build is doing well

Uhh, doesn't 99% fire resist exist even in PvP? And like 75% is pretty easily obtainable with a quick swap of armor and rings?

Aside from that pyromancies worked basically just as well in DS1, which is to say they are fine for ganking players who 95% of the time have never seen what you are about to cast and have no idea how to prepare or react.

 

[cruel]

Dark Souls named as Game of the Decade by Pushsquare:

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019...rk_souls_laid_the_foundations_for_a_new_genre

And probably... they are correct. No other game I can think of that released in the last 10 years and changed so much - while being a masterpiece on it's own.