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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
What? You never have to run for more than 2 minutes to find the next bonfire. Whileas in DKS1 you certainly had to run a while sometimes. Things like two bonfires almost next to each other like in Earthen Peek or Huntsmans Cope were never in DKS.
In DS1 you pretty much never walked more than 2 minutes before stumbling on a bonfire either. What are you talking about? The only area that stands out where you were thinking "man I wish there was a bonfire soon" was in the anor londo ruins, which had none. That's pretty much the only area I can think of where the bonfire density wasn't high. Hell, even in tomb of giants, you needn't walk far at all to get from one bonfire to the next.

And also, the bonfires in the swamp and the one going down to ashlake in the bottomless depth, as well as the first bonfire in the lavaplace, are also practically right next to each other. And that's only what comes to mind at top of my head.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
- Level design... much worse than DeS1, where levels were relatively large, complex, and non-linear (beyond having to find the next boss/archstone, obviously). DaS2 is even worse than many of the DaS1 levels. I think this was the biggest disappointment overall. So many short, linear levels with ten million bonfires.

Is that a typo, or are you really saying DeS levels were complex and non-linear? If so, rofl. Only ones which would qualify there would be 1-1, 1-3 and 3-1, and that's being generous. Lost Bastille on its own is larger and more complex than any DeS level aside from 3-1 perhaps. You'd have to look quite hard in DaS2 to find levels as linear as the entirety of Shrine of Storms, as well.

Although it is true that they feel smaller than they are because of the unnecessarily large amount of bonfires.
 

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
- Level design... much worse than DeS1, where levels were relatively large, complex, and non-linear (beyond having to find the next boss/archstone, obviously). DaS2 is even worse than many of the DaS1 levels. I think this was the biggest disappointment overall. So many short, linear levels with ten million bonfires.

Is that a typo, or are you really saying DeS levels were complex and non-linear? If so, rofl. Only ones which would qualify there would be 1-1, 1-3 and 3-1, and that's being generous. Lost Bastille on its own is larger and more complex than any DeS level aside from 3-1 perhaps. You'd have to look quite hard in DaS2 to find levels as linear as the entirety of Shrine of Storms, as well.

Although it is true that they feel smaller than they are because of the unnecessarily large amount of bonfires.

Lost Bastille is literally the only level in DaS2 that's anything like that. All the rest of the levels I found the next bonfire with 50%+ left on my weapon durability.

2-1 has big cavern and outdoor sections that are completely non-mandatory to visit. 5-1 has multiple paths. 4-2 is pretty linear but also pretty hard. 5-2 is the most annoying level, obviously, and also the least interesting.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
You'd have to look quite hard in DaS2 to find levels as linear as the entirety of Shrine of Storms, as well.

all the Chasms, Amanda, Shrine of Winter + Drangleic castle, both Belfries, Grave of Saints, Doors of Pharros, Giant memories, Dragon shrine, and probably some others i forgot. there's also plenty others that are so small and offer so little in side-content (and next to non-existent alternate paths) they might as well be considered linear.

Lost Bastille is literally the only level in DaS2 that's anything like that. All the rest of the levels I found the next bonfire with 50%+ left on my weapon durability.

2-1 has big cavern and outdoor sections that are completely non-mandatory to visit. 5-1 has multiple paths. 4-2 is pretty linear but also pretty hard. 5-2 is the most annoying level, obviously, and also the least interesting.

the Forest (Cardinal tower onwards) is also full of optional stuff and pretty big (bigger than most if not all DeS levels). Shaded Woods, Brightstone cove, the Gutter and Earthen Peak also come to mind as relatively large and complex, certainly more so than the DeS average
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
614
So you've never sat at a bonfire with 20,000 souls, it costs 19,000 souls to level up, and you said to yourself, "Eh, fuck it, it's just one level. I'll go to Majula later..." ?
If the levelling up process is actually so boring that you're willing to risk losing your souls just to not have to go through it then I think that's kind of a problem. A huge problem.
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
Almost all levels in all soul games are essentially linear, in that you are essentially following a given path through the level.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
10,064
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Almost all levels in all soul games are essentially linear, in that you are essentially following a given path through the level.
Lower blighttown begs to differ. As does most of deeproot. Not to mention that you could go through a lot of levels in the opposite direction if you felt like it.
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
Almost all levels in all soul games are essentially linear, in that you are essentially following a given path through the level.
Lower blighttown begs to differ. As does most of deeproot. Not to mention that you could go through a lot of levels in the opposite direction if you felt like it.
That's why I said almost. I had those areas in mind, when I said almost. All other levels though in DS1, you are essentially following a corridor most of the time with some side corridors throughout the level.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
- Level design... much worse than DeS1, where levels were relatively large, complex, and non-linear (beyond having to find the next boss/archstone, obviously). DaS2 is even worse than many of the DaS1 levels. I think this was the biggest disappointment overall. So many short, linear levels with ten million bonfires.

Is that a typo, or are you really saying DeS levels were complex and non-linear? If so, rofl. Only ones which would qualify there would be 1-1, 1-3 and 3-1, and that's being generous. Lost Bastille on its own is larger and more complex than any DeS level aside from 3-1 perhaps. You'd have to look quite hard in DaS2 to find levels as linear as the entirety of Shrine of Storms, as well.

Although it is true that they feel smaller than they are because of the unnecessarily large amount of bonfires.

Lost Bastille is literally the only level in DaS2 that's anything like that. All the rest of the levels I found the next bonfire with 50%+ left on my weapon durability.

2-1 has big cavern and outdoor sections that are completely non-mandatory to visit. 5-1 has multiple paths. 4-2 is pretty linear but also pretty hard. 5-2 is the most annoying level, obviously, and also the least interesting.

I agree about the bonfire placement/frequency, but that doesn't really have any bearing on the linearity of a level.

I think you mean 2-2 with the big, optional cavern? To be fair, 2-1 is such a dull level that I have trouble recalling its layout in detail, but I don't remember any large optional areas there. Just a bunch of shortcuts to elevators and then pouring water over the lava to reach the boss. I will give you 2-2, which is quite elaborate. However, 5-1, for instance, is smaller and less complex than the Gutter, which also has multiple paths.

Complaints about level design in DaS2 confound me a bit because it seems very typical for Souls games - mostly linear path from A to B with some side rooms and the occasional shortcut looping back to a previous point. Some of the levels are simply short or boring and shitty (sup Harvest Valley).

It's actually a fairly rare exception for a Souls level to be "sprawly" in the same way as, say, levels in Looking Glass games. I hoped they would include more of these in DaS2, and Forest of Fallen Giants/Lost Bastille kept these hopes up, but I ended up disappointed in the end.

You'd have to look quite hard in DaS2 to find levels as linear as the entirety of Shrine of Storms, as well.

all the Chasms, Amanda, Shrine of Winter + Drangleic castle, both Belfries, Grave of Saints, Doors of Pharros, Giant memories, Dragon shrine, and probably some others i forgot. there's also plenty others that are so small and offer so little in side-content (and next to non-existent alternate paths) they might as well be considered linear.

Can't speak to the ones I haven't seen (entering Amana right now), but Belfries, Grave of Saints, and so on, are basically just really small optional areas. May as well complain that 1-4 or 3-3 or 5-3 are small and linear. Or Valley of the Drakes, Darkroot Basin, Ash Lake, etc. .

And in any case, Doors of Pharros in its entirety is not linear at all. Just small.

I will give you Drangleic Castle, although, like Anor Londo, it does a great job of obscuring its own linearity.

Lost Bastille is literally the only level in DaS2 that's anything like that. All the rest of the levels I found the next bonfire with 50%+ left on my weapon durability.

2-1 has big cavern and outdoor sections that are completely non-mandatory to visit. 5-1 has multiple paths. 4-2 is pretty linear but also pretty hard. 5-2 is the most annoying level, obviously, and also the least interesting.

the Forest (Cardinal tower onwards) is also full of optional stuff and pretty big (bigger than most if not all DeS levels). Shaded Woods, Brightstone cove, the Gutter and Earthen Peak also come to mind as relatively large and complex, certainly more so than the DeS average

If you're going to count Brightstone Cove, may as well include Huntsman's Copse (especially since you can basically consider Undead Purgatory a part of the area). Wouldn't count Earthen Peak either, same as Sen's Fortress, which it's very reminiscent of.
 
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Admiral jimbob

gay as all hell
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
9,225
Location
truck stops and toilet stalls
Wasteland 2

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
After watching some trailers I also noticed minor inconsistencies in some scripts. For example, in a video where developer shows that dragon laboratory, trolls aggro on player when he shoots them between bars with an arrow, and they need three hits, well telegraphed by the way, to get out. But in the game they crush the wall and burry you instantly the moment you approach, not to mention through walls, with little to no warnings.

Also in that vid developer approached dragon skeleton from the back, not from the front, which would be impossible in game cause you need to go through gate with King's Ring and all.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
Huh, Lost Sinner is a joke if you light the fires. And apparently female.

Sorcery is not terribly fun, so far. Spells are... weird. Lightning spear is as strong as Soul Spear and can be cast 4x as much and way earlier... and yet, I've only found one Soul Spear so far that I save for invasions or bosses. And even then, it's not THAT much stronger than great heavy soul arrow. I'm getting a bit sick of hearing the cast animation.

Soul Spear Barrage was pretty cool but seems less useful now in later levels. Soul shower seems pointless unless a big cluster is there, but enemies move out of the range unless someone is tanking them. Soul Vortex is pretty neat tho; works great on bosses like The Rotten or just mobs.

I guess I should have gone hexer? But hexes seem pretty OP.

I think I'll try a STR + Pyro build after this. So far all my characters are fasty dodgy kinds that don't use shields, which is pretty cool, but they play too similarly even if using str or dex weapons.
 

fizzelopeguss

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
952
Location
Equality Street.
No not development hell, The game wasn't delayed for any particularly large stretch.


It should have been, i'm gonna be a cheeky cunt and say that right off the bat.

How much of this is actually a good game or a fascinating, mysterious, creepy adventure. Or is it simply using that wonderful, endlessly addictive souls combat as a crutch to make me plod through it?

You've all finished the game while it's still early days for me...so you know if it gets better or not.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,624
Finished the game ... and I got nothing new to say. Overall I think it is unfinished and the best moments were defeating invaders with the long bow :P
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I watched Santzo84 run a speed run (which is faster in DS 2, but then you have warping to ALL bonfires so yeah [and it is any %]) and it is... much less magical to watch. Basically you bonfire ascetic spam The Rotten for 850k souls (he gives like 170k per kill + the drops) with soul increasing gear and uhh then you open shrine of winter. The rest you kind of know.

It's... weird.
 
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Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
How much of this is actually a good game
I'd say for the most part it is a good game.

or a fascinating, mysterious, creepy adventure
But it's not that, aside from a few (very few) and short (very short) moments of brilliance.

Or is it simply using that wonderful, endlessly addictive souls combat as a crutch to make me plod through it?
And that is something DS2 turned out to be effective at.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Dark Souls 2 is like what happened to Fallout 2 but with more features from Wasteland while also being made by a new team that is competent.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
I watched Santzo84 run a speed run (which is faster in DS 2, but then you have warping to ALL bonfires so yeah) and it is... much less magical to watch. Basically you bonfire ascetic spam The Rotten for 850k souls (he gives like 170k per kill + the drops) with soul increasing gear and uhh then you open shrine of winter. The rest you kind of know.

It's... weird.
:hmmm: where is magic in watching those autists abusing any possible glitche in game?
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
Nah, the ones I like don't abuse glitches. They find creative short-cuts and strangely effective strategies. I like to see how quickly they traverse area -- don't care about memorizing how many points to raise each thing.

The glitch based one (like the Kiln glitch) are blah; I like to see how they actually beat the bosses. Watching someone kill Kalameet or Manus in like 15 seconds while I struggled for an hour + on my SL1 duder (for obvious reasons) was neat -- the range of possible outcomes.

Anyway, gotta do something while I eat.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
just died to ancient dragon even before i crossed the fog. host entered and lizard fucker breathed while i was still outside. good job From:x
with 26ADP and BKGS+5 Dragon Shrine is pretty easy. drakekeepers die within 3 hits and cant cacth me cause i roll like a pro:dance:
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,601
Sorcery finally starting to come into it's own now, but ridiculously late. Geyser, Greatsword, Affinity (blah blah hex it takes 60 int so it's sorcery fuck you) are all quite decent and offer some variety. OTOH, I can't help but notice two things:

Everything that resists lightning resists everything else too, usually more than lightning.
Eventually you can buy as many scrolls of lightning bolt miracle as you want, and it's just so fucking good.

So I'm thinking making a character that just grabs like ~20 faith and fills all spell slots with lightning bolts would do pretty fucking well.

Hexes in general seem to be where it's at for sure though, dark fog is very effective in many situations, dark storm was great in drangleic castle for murdering those little golem fuckers, scraps of life has been useful now and then, dark orb is generally quite efficient and has a lot more castings than great heavy soul arrow (thoguh the range is a bit lacking.) Resonant soul spells are strong if you want to cheese something.

There's just so many awful sorceries. Vortex? Worthless. Shower? Super worthless. All those arrows? Totally redundant after you get the superior versions. Yearn? Works on almost nothing. Bolt? Takes forever, has no ammo, and you need to be closer than fucking punching range to do full damage. It doesn't even stunlock. Barrage aims at the ceiling half the time whenever you cast it on an enemy large enough to be hit by the whole thing. Homing souls? Incredibly slow and weak, harder to hit with than fucking normal arrows. Soulmass isn't even good any more, it takes so long to cast and the discharge range is so short it's not worth it. Affinity has the same problems but at least it does a fuckton of damage.

Still looking for the really nice shit I've seen enemies use, like that single target fire storm thing, or whatever bullshit Navlaan uses that chases you down and rapes your face off. That lightning storm thing the cleric chick uses seem good too, though any off these could be utter shit if their damage/uses/slots weren't balanced properly.
 

80Maxwell08

Arcane
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,154
Oh Faith is overpowered as hell. I can't compare them to hexes since I don't care about using them but great lightning spear and sunlight spear just destroy things. I'm betting I could have killed Darklurker with only my 4 casts of sunlight spear with how much damage one cast did and that was before getting the best miracle catalyst.
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
How much of this is actually a good game or a fascinating, mysterious, creepy adventure.
Drangleic castle, gutter, grave of saints, Shrine of Amana, Aldia's keep, Dragon aerie and dragon shrine all fill one or more of these roles. Those are the areas I remember of the top of my head. Actually the best areas in the game, when it comes to athmosphere and actual graphical fidelity (something that is very uneven in DS2) come towards the end of the game IMO.
 

Alonebadman

Educated
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
77
Location
Brick Mansion
Drangleic Castle and Aldia were some of the best. All those mirrors are creepy as hell, especially the elevator leading to the singing wench with the BDSM freak locked around her.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Incidentally, fuck those white mages. Whoever designed that one crevice with four of them at different (and not easily accessible) levels is an asshole, and needs to design more areas.
Oh don't worry, I'm sure he designed the shrine of amana. Fuck that place. SO MUCH.

Nah, I think that was the guy who designed 5-2 in DeS. That section in Brightstone Cove relies on clever enemy placement and level architecture, and it forces the player to actually understand the layout in order to traverse it effectively (that is, without getting shot at by 3+ mages at the same time).

Shrine of Amana, on the other hand, is simply cheap as fuck. Although I do applaud them for finally coming up with an interesting gameplay mechanic involving the torch.
 

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