From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Malpercio]

what? small soapstone lasts for like 2minutes if you kill enemies so how is it an incentive for both co-op and exploring? i feel like you're not getting across what you actually mean because, to me, that makes no sense. i lost count of how many times i got summoned near Ornstein only for the host to run to the dragonderper and the timer always ran out at the maximum after the room with the 3 stooges (4 in ng+).

Because small soapstone is not the only option. The fact that it has short duration allows you to explore an area at the same time. You go into no man wharf for the first time, you drop the small soapstone, start exploring, get summoned, do your small co-op, return to your level, drop it again if you want and continue to explore. Want to do longer co-op? Drop the normal soapstone.

what's the incentive for putting it at the start when it's always better to do it at the end since you're sure you'll get summoned and the timer won't run out, other than to farm form tokens/stones/medals? there's a reason why most people put their sign at the boss fog, not at the start. that's what i was getting at: in DaS2 co-op seems to be about the rewards farming first, while in DaS1 the "material gains" were a secondary trait

Because some people like to play these levels together. I'd rather put my sign at the beginning of a level and help the host go through it rather than just at the end. It's called choice. DS1 essentially rewarded your for putting your sign to the last bonfire/near the boss. People that put their sign at Oolacite first bonfire or Blightown first were essentially ffffucked because 1) the host couldn't lit the second bonfire with the phantom up 2) they didn't get anything for helping you go through half level.

and let's not even talk about the SM travesty that also hinders co-op, among other things... yeah, there are significant improvements to everything, but they also did some pretty big steps back... in everything

Yes, SM is retarded, I'm not gonna deny that. But ya know what? I never spent more than 2 minutes without a summon/getting summoned on my normal game, even even in NG+ i rarely wait more than 5 minutes.

Now go replay the original DS on PC and tell me how much does it take you to summon 1 phantom. I remember waiting 30 minutes for the poor host to try to summon a second shadow for Artorias only to give up and go in with 1 ppl.



Not to mention some areas like the paint were if you went out of SL range you were essentially fffucked summon wise.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

My power went out while I was playing and it corrupted my save game file. No matter what I did it wouldn't load. I'm 40 hours into the game, level 125, so I was about to destroy my computer in rage. But I used system restore to revert to a previous version of the save game folder from yesterday, so I ended up only losing like 5 hours of gameplay.

Huge relief.

Anyhow, just posting to remind everyone to BACK UP YOUR SAVE FILES AFTER EVERY PLAY SESSION!

Seems like it doesn't take much to corrupt Dark Souls save game files, judging from the horror stories on the internet. Any computer crashes or unexpected shut downs could do it.

 

[praetor]

Because small soapstone is not the only option. The fact that it has short duration allows you to explore an area at the same time. You go into no man wharf for the first time, you drop the small soapstone, start exploring, get summoned, do your small co-op, return to your level, drop it again if you want and continue to explore. Want to do longer co-op? Drop the normal soapstone.


Because some people like to play these levels together. I'd rather put my sign at the beginning of a level and help the host go through it rather than just at the end. It's called choice. DS1 essentially rewarded your for putting your sign to the last bonfire/near the boss. People that put their sign at Oolacite first bonfire or Blightown first were essentially ffffucked because 1) the host couldn't lit the second bonfire with the phantom up 2) they didn't get anything for helping you go through half level.


Yes, SM is retarded, I'm not gonna deny that. But ya know what? I never spent more than 2 minutes without a summon/getting summoned on my normal game, even even in NG+ i rarely wait more than 5 minutes.

Now go replay the original DS on PC and tell me how much does it take you to summon 1 phantom. I remember waiting 30 minutes for the poor host to try to summon a second shadow for Artorias only to give up and go in with 1 ppl.



Not to mention some areas like the paint were if you went out of SL range you were essentially fffucked summon wise.

duuuude... what the flying fuck?! dropping the small soapstone to explore? comparing the summoning rate on PC DaS1 with the very recently released sequel? complaining about areas not being in SL range in DaS1 when the same thing happens in DaS2 with SM until you hit 15mil? not getting my point about the co-op not being about the rewards in DaS1 (just to be clear, i don't think that's a wholly good thing. there needs to be an incentive, a reward, but i don't think what we have in DaS2 works in a good way because of many reasons, with the emphasis on rewards being a big one), but almost entirely revolving around it in DaS2 (precisely the reason why most people put their sign in front of the boss fog, the exact opposite of DaS1. not to mention DaS1 didn't have bonfires every 20 friggin meters)?

 

[Malpercio]

duuuude... what the flying fuck?! dropping the small soapstone to explore?

Well, yes? What part of my example isn't clear to you? A small summon-time allows more you to mix co-op and exploration. I always dropped my small white soap-stone when I explored an area and got plenty of co-op.

Since the netcode isn't shit like DS1 you can get summoned/summon quickly, instead of getting SUMMON FAILED for 30 minutes.

comparing the summoning rate on PC DaS1 with the very recently released sequel?

Considering DS1 was one of the most played on steam when it was release, yeah. And DaS1 problems wasn't that you couldn't get summons, but that you couldn't summon because the netcode was shit.

Cue to the 30 minutes of "SUMMON FAILED" in front of Artorias fog gate.

complaining about areas not being in SL range in DaS1 when the same thing happens in DaS2 with SM until you hit 15mil?

Bullshit. NG has plenty of summons for every rage. You can't stand 2 minutes without getting summoned/find a summon. If you can't summon it's only because there are too many people playing and the summons symbol get snatched.

NG+ summons get rarer, but then again, it's not like it was easy to summon people for the tomb of giant and shit.

not getting my point about the co-op not being about the rewards in DaS1 (just to be clear, i don't think that's a wholly good thing. there needs to be an incentive, a reward, but i don't think what we have in DaS2 works in a good way because of many reasons, with the emphasis on rewards being a big one), but almost entirely revolving around it in DaS2 (precisely the reason why most people put their sign in front of the boss fog, the exact opposite of DaS1.

This doesn't make any sense.

DaS1 also has people putting their symbol in front of the boss fought. Capra Demon, Biggs and Wedge, the Gargoyles, Fire tits, Artorias, they were popular spot to farm souls and medals. Heck, because the game didn't allow you to progress into the level if you had a phantom, people were less likely to drop their symbol to the mid-level bonfires.

DaS2 is not about the reward. People who liked to do levels in DS1 are going to do levels in DS2, just like people who liked to farm bosses in DaS1 are doing the same thing in DaS2. I played DS1 exactly like I played 2 (And many did the same, I pretty much always summon for bosses and most summons were at the bonfire!), placed my symbol to the beginning of a level and helped the host through it. The only difference is that DS2 also reward my effort and allowed the host to proceed in the level with me. I would have done it without the reward at the end, just like I did in DS1, but DS2 also gives me a further reason to drop my sign at the beginning of a level.



I.e., sunbros don't get dicked because the host reached a new bonfire.

 

[Shadenuat]

You go into no man wharf for the first time, you drop the small soapstone, start exploring, get summoned, do your small co-op, return to your level, drop it again if you want and continue to explore.

People do that? It doesn't sound like a sane thing to do to me, teleporting back and forth from one game state to another. I would rather play whole level alone or whole level with a bro.

 

[Malpercio]

When I went through a level the first time yeah. Saw plenty of people doing the same too.

These days I just use the big one of course.

 

[praetor]

People do that? It doesn't sound like a sane thing to do to me, teleporting back and forth from one game state to another. I would rather play whole level alone or whole level with a bro.

yup. it makes little sense and seems very inefficient and pretty stupid. plus, in my experience at least, people very rarely summon from small soapstones unless it's in front of a fog gate because they know they won't get anything out of it since the shade gets returned home after a couple of minutes/enemies killed.

anyway, stopped reading/caring when "waaah, 30mins of summoning failed at artorias". dude has either very shitty net, or his router is all kinds of fucked/ports not forwarded. never had any problems with summons on either ps3 after the first patch or pc since release for DaS1 (other than the shitty 32 p2p pool making connecting to specific players tedious until the cfix), while on DaS2 i can get hours of "summoning failed" (arena, co-op, what have you) without a single one succeeding (sometimes even restarting every goddamned internet capable gadget and rebooting the router doesn't help). not to mention the shittastic netcode that makes lagstabs in DaS1 look like the work of a netcode genius, with attacks teleporting you through goddamned floors

he also doesn't understand the difference between "most" and "all". it's like talking to a wall

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

anyway, stopped reading/caring when "waaah, 30mins of summoning failed at artorias". dude has either very shitty net, or his router is all kinds of fucked/ports not forwarded. never had any problems with summons on either ps3 after the first patch or pc since release for DaS1 (other than the shitty 32 p2p pool making connecting to specific players tedious until the cfix),

 

[DragoFireheart]

anyway, stopped reading/caring when "waaah, 30mins of summoning failed at artorias". dude has either very shitty net, or his router is all kinds of fucked/ports not forwarded. never had any problems with summons on either ps3 after the first patch or pc since release for DaS1 (other than the shitty 32 p2p pool making connecting to specific players tedious until the cfix),

No.

 

[praetor]

hilarious how the "nostalgia" word is being thrown around as if DaS1 was released 20 years ago

 

[Shadenuat]

I encourage you all to go full asshat as combat now takes many hits instead of 2 followed by 3 gestures of you being decapitated and/or this guyyyyy

I really don't see a reason to, unless we're talking getting ranks in AoB. As long as you are not trying dumb builds or weapons and have a decent weapon with good poise damage, moveset you are competent with and a buff on it, you can do fine. At least I do fine.
If ppl try to backstab fish me I usually just switch to a faster weapon, like a dagger (two-handing buffed lightning Royal Dirk, spam R1 - the most trolly of my weapons I think after Syan's), estoc or one-handed axe (my favorite is an axe, I never see people using axes, and they seem to not understand exactly how fast and stunlocky can it be). I usually carry 2 weapons depending on my mood. Against parry fishers I might switch to something heavier (Greatsword or Greatclub), parry-fish myself or hit them when they try to roll. Sometimes I will do a guard break - that, sometimes, make people think you're attacking, and they start to parry. It comes as a surprise when I then follow with real attack.
I usually just rush ppl with single sunlight blade on. If I see them heavy buffing I pop GMB, and if I see them spam magic I can block it (my standard shield is Llewelyn's, and I carry Dark Rebel's when I want to be a dick about it).

But then it has been a long time I PvPed in DS2.
Whole 3 days I think.

I usually dragon-bro for an hour or two before I get another meltdown after losing to an invisible helixes or getting killed with hexes right on my spawn spot
that's usually enough for me to get that nasty Souls-games scratch off.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I've had a really bad time with DaS1 PC multiplayer as well, tons of summonings failed, and then awful lag if it succeeded. And yes, this is with all the stupid GFWL ports manually forwarded and given high priority on the router's QOS. I think it might be the fault of potato, or just having a shitty route to the server courtesy of my ISP. Whatever the reason, it was shit.

DaS2, in comparison, has been very good in terms of connectivity.

 

[Malpercio]

Holy shit, I never though I'd seen anyone defying DS1 network on PC.

What's the next, the port "was actually very good and pleasant to the eye?"

I've had a really bad time with DaS1 PC multiplayer as well, tons of summonings failed, and then awful lag if it succeeded. And yes, this is with all the stupid GFWL ports manually forwarded and given high priority on the router's QOS. I think it might be the fault of potato, or just having a shitty route to the server courtesy of my ISP. Whatever the reason, it was shit.

DaS2, in comparison, has been very good in terms of connectivity.

It really wasn't just you, anyone who played DS1 PC knows what the fuck a pain the ass summoning/invading failed, since just plain failed I'd say 80% of the times.

 

[Kanedias]

Dark Souls 1 PC matchmaking was an awful turd.

• Summoning failed.
• That awful IP pool system. If you disconnected, you had to wait a while for it to refill.
• And the worst of all, that bug with invasions where someone would be trying to invade you, unsuccessfully, yet making the fog walls appear in your world and taking the invasion slot. This shit was the reason I never hosted when doing PvP, I would have to stare at fog walls for hours, hoping someone got through.

Also, when invading, the game would sometimes get obsessed with a certain person and it would force me to invade them countless times in a row.

 

[praetor]

• And the worst of all, that bug with invasions where someone would be trying to invade you, unsuccessfully, yet making the fog walls appear in your world and taking the invasion slot. This shit was the reason I never hosted when doing PvP, I would have to stare at fog walls for hours, hoping someone got through.

this still happens in DaS2. it's how invasions work. the game first makes a "connection", then tries to actually connect the two players... which sometimes fails (in both games. quite frequently). and instead of the awful IP pool of 32 like before, the game now caches your current IP address (or more likely something tied to PSN like a cookie or something) so when PSN disconnects me for who knows what reason i have to restart the goddamned console (to be more precise, i have to turn off the console, restart the router and then turn it on again so that the shitty game actually refreshes the goddamned credentials and lets me fucking play it online). and if i, god forbid, lose my connection (not in the middle of an invasion. thankfully that hasn't happened yet) not even restarting everything helped until the next day. and let's not even get into the idiotic "we'll soft ban your IP for 5mins if a summoning fails because... yeah" (but i think they thankfully patched that out. at least the part that greyed out the soapstones until you restarted the fucking game, although they consistently still fail in a row after the first one fails so whatever. how beyond stupid do you have to be to come up with such a system? team-b level of stupid)

 

[Malpercio]

Invasions and co-op almost never fail in DS2.

Sounds like you connection is shit, yo.

 

[praetor]

fanboys gonna fanboy, i guess. they "almost never failed" in DaS1 for me

 

[Kanedias]

I can't believe it. In Dark Souls 2, I never had this issue happen, not even once. Now when invasions fail, they fail fast, and they don't leave the fog doors in the victim's world until the invasion times out, which is what happened in Dark Souls 1. Plus invasions fail much less.

This problem was so bad in Dark Souls 1 that I could not set foot in the Forest without immediatly getting it. This is with the PC version, by the way. Consoles had better matchmaking.

 

[praetor]

oh, consoles (at least PS3) definitely had better matchmaking and i have a feeling they borked the PC one in some patch (or gfwl broke it in a way) 'cause i did not have as many problems on PC on release up until the DLC was released on consoles (stopped playing on PC afterwards since it was definitely more active on PS3... and gfwl refuses to let me log in and play online to this day). likewise, as i already explained in a previous conversation, i never got the complaints about dragonbros and bluebros since they worked fine on PS3 (at least they did while i was playing... roughly the first year. hmmm... perhaps it was a shift in mentality. in the early days, everyone was using indictions against reds who invaded, but then indictions kinda became the "honourable" thing to do so only good invaders got indicted so maybe that's why it was harder for them to find people to invade? dunno...) and on PC i did not try the blues, but i levelled to dragons exclusively while duelling at the kiln and found no problems

and that same problem with invasions failing and seeing only fog doors/inactive bonfires is definitely in. it happens to me relatively often in traffic-heavy areas

btw, over the weekend before moving on to NG+ with my 6mil SM str/fth char i went to every location and tried for 10mins to invade with a cracked blue orb. 0. nada. zilch. nothing. niente. i was also summoned and invaded only once in NG+ in heide in almost an hour. and the Bluebro arena is idiotic, it has no criteria for matchmaking. that same char was matched with obviously 15mil+ chars, as he was with dudes who barely begun the game (matched me with the same poor low-level soul who stood no chance about 3 times )

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'd normally dismiss any nostalgia argument out of hand. However, I'm currently replaying DeS and have already seen more hitbox bullshit (though some of it seems more like enemies having iframes tbh) in 1-1 and 2-1 than in the whole FFG/Lost Bastille/Heide/Wharf complex. It happens on regular enemies rather than bosses as well, so you see it more often. So much for the A Team's godlike programming skills.

 

[praetor]

care to provide some examples? i haven't played it in years 'cause honestly it gets pretty friggin boring after 2-3 playthroughs and i really don't care for it so much to go through it again

 

[Murk]

"hyper armor"

I have fog gates stay up on me in DS 2 even when invasions fail quite frequently; usually takes another 3-5 minutes. Sometimes longer, usually 3-5. This happened about... 4 times yesterday in a one hour span.

 

[praetor]

new screens of the DLC on destructoid

edit:

exterminatus

 

[Murk]

Heh, haphazardly thrown about combinations of armor in those screen shots. Attempt to make things look 'new' or fresh?

I can't even deal with how many times people ask 'ermagerd whats word is dattt' when people use the drake keeper sword.

 

[Kanedias]

OH NO

THEY ARE BACK

THE DRAGON ASSES OF IZALITH