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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
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Strange Fellow

It goes Crown of the Sunken King, Crown of the Old Iron King, Crown of the Ivory King (the one you were talking about). Enjoy! They are all great, but my favorite was definitely Sunken King. So goddamn good.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
cheers men
DS2 main campaign was just subpar compared to rest of franchize.
I dunno about that, I've had tons of fun with it this time through, and my opinion of the game has improved considerably. Dark Souls 1 still reigns supreme, but the feel of the combat, the level design, and just the general vibe, which I used to think was fairly weak, all these things are much better than I had given them credit for, and reorienting to the slowness of everything after having played DS3 and Nioh as my last two souls-like games has been a refreshing experience. Not that those aren't good games, but this just feels so perfectly crunchy and solid.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the SotFS changes. As a returning player they're great, but for the most part they seem to me like random alterations rather than a concerted effort to improve the weaker areas and encounters. But hey, never look a gift horse in the mouth, right?
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
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Oct 1, 2016
Messages
730
Replaying this, with the aim of finally getting to see these DLCs that everybody's raving about. Is there a particular order they should be done in that produces the best experience? Order of release, maybe?

If not, I'm going ahead with the one I have unlocked, which is the one you access from the Shrine of Winter. I don't even know where I picked up the key for it, but I have it. It's real annoying, too, since I apparently could've accessed that DLC ages ago. I thought I would have to speak with Vendrick in order to unlock them, which is what that talking glob of whatever that explodes out of bonfires seemed to indicate. But no, turns out they're accessed by simply finding keys scattered around the gameworld, and the two that I haven't got yet happen to be located in the only two areas I've intentionally skipped over this playthrough, because I remembered that in the original game they offered much bullshit for little gain. Not so any more, I guess.

Concur with the others here, quoting my old post:

Definitely play the DLCs in order of release. I made the mistake of doing Ivory King first, which was a bit on the miserable side with all of the magic-resistant enemies that I had to parry to death because my weapons couldn't stagger them and they took forever to kill. The Sunken King was still pretty well tuned for my character, but by the time I reached the Iron King I was fully kitted out with DLC items and maxed out magic infusions, so I beat the infamously difficult Fume Knight in only two tries (I don't get what's supposed to be so tricky about his moveset, but I was using a low-commitment rapier), which is hilariously one fewer attempt than I needed for the Old Iron King himself. Sir Alonne was much much harder.
 

Fishy

Savant
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Jan 24, 2019
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Ireland
I dunno about that, I've had tons of fun with it this time through, and my opinion of the game has improved considerably. Dark Souls 1 still reigns supreme, but the feel of the combat, the level design, and just the general vibe, which I used to think was fairly weak, all these things are much better than I had given them credit for, and reorienting to the slowness of everything after having played DS3 and Nioh as my last two souls-like games has been a refreshing experience. Not that those aren't good games, but this just feels so perfectly crunchy and solid.

That's how I felt too. Thought it was ok-meh the first time, but coming back to it later, it just clicked, and I've been absolutely loving it since.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the SotFS changes. As a returning player they're great, but for the most part they seem to me like random alterations rather than a concerted effort to improve the weaker areas and encounters. But hey, never look a gift horse in the mouth, right?

Even if, for some reason, that gift horse is inside a marble hall at the top of a castle.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,817
Replaying this, with the aim of finally getting to see these DLCs that everybody's raving about. Is there a particular order they should be done in that produces the best experience? Order of release, maybe?

If not, I'm going ahead with the one I have unlocked, which is the one you access from the Shrine of Winter. I don't even know where I picked up the key for it, but I have it. It's real annoying, too, since I apparently could've accessed that DLC ages ago. I thought I would have to speak with Vendrick in order to unlock them, which is what that talking glob of whatever that explodes out of bonfires seemed to indicate. But no, turns out they're accessed by simply finding keys scattered around the gameworld, and the two that I haven't got yet happen to be located in the only two areas I've intentionally skipped over this playthrough, because I remembered that in the original game they offered much bullshit for little gain. Not so any more, I guess.
play them in release order (Sunken -> Iron -> Ivory). Narratively it doesn't matter in which order you play them, but Sunken is the easiest of the bunch while Ivory is the hardest one.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
This DLC is all kinds of nice. Hurrah for quite something.

By the way, two things have been bugging me:
1. In the Shrine of Amana, near the bonfire at the beginning, there was a basilisk. I killed it, but there was a message which said it was a merchant. Was it? I don't remember it from my first playthrough, which was the non-SotFS version, but maybe I did the same thing then.
2. I haven't had a single invasion yet. Not one, not even in the belfries. I know the online works fine, because the ground is littered with messages and bloodstains, co-op works, and I even tried to invade someone myself and got through immediately. My best guess is that it has something to do with my effigy use. I tend to pop a new one each time I die, because I like to have a full health bar and I know I can afford it. The main reason why I think this might be the cause of the issue is that sometimes I get the option to nullify the effects of an effigy at bonfires. However, I thought burning effigies was what was supposed to reduce the chance of invasions, not using them. What gives?
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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This DLC is all kinds of nice. Hurrah for quite something.

By the way, two things have been bugging me:
1. In the Shrine of Amana, near the bonfire at the beginning, there was a basilisk. I killed it, but there was a message which said it was a merchant. Was it? I don't remember it from my first playthrough, which was the non-SotFS version, but maybe I did the same thing then.
2. I haven't had a single invasion yet. Not one, not even in the belfries. I know the online works fine, because the ground is littered with messages and bloodstains, co-op works, and I even tried to invade someone myself and got through immediately. My best guess is that it has something to do with my effigy use. I tend to pop a new one each time I die, because I like to have a full health bar and I know I can afford it. The main reason why I think this might be the cause of the issue is that sometimes I get the option to nullify the effects of an effigy at bonfires. However, I thought burning effigies was what was supposed to reduce the chance of invasions, not using them. What gives?

1. I think they were trolling you or meant something other than a basilisk.
2. What you described is correct. Did you accidentally burn one at the bonfire instead of using it?
 
Joined
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Invasions are pretty rare in Dark Souls II for me as well. Most of my PvP in this game is done via Bell keeping and later on Iron Keep bridge and Bloodbro arenas.
 
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kites

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i've been playing this for the first time recently; soul memory may be an issue? i haven't read enough into it..
the only place i've had any invasions so far was at the tower of flame; + helping others thru co-op after i finish an area has also been a lot harder to come by

i'm in the black gulch atm and this place seems pretty crap, something to jet past and forget.
and though i'm nowhere near a final verdict; i can only play DS1 so many times, so as frustrating as some things are - so far, in terms of "novelty", it's pretty nice!
 
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Strange Fellow

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
1. I think they were trolling you or meant something other than a basilisk.
Probably. It didn't attack me and I couldn't lock onto it, which is what gave me pause. The author of the message no doubt noticed the same thing. :)
2. What you described is correct. Did you accidentally burn one at the bonfire instead of using it?
Nope, never did. It's not something you do by mistake, really. The weird thing is that I can't even reliably make the "nullify effect" option appear, let alone figure out what it does. It is a mystery.
As for the regular frequency of invasions, yeah, I'm not expecting it to be constant for a five-year old game, but I didn't expect to be able to loiter freely in the belfries. Seemed you couldn't set foot in there without being gangbanged not too long ago.
 

NJClaw

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As for the regular frequency of invasions, yeah, I'm not expecting it to be constant for a five-year old game, but I didn't expect to be able to loiter freely in the belfries. Seemed you couldn't set foot in there without being gangbanged not too long ago.
Exactly one year ago I played through DS2 with a friend both on PS4 and PC, and we couldn't progress through the game due to how frequently we got invaded. At one point we gave up and started playing exclusively PvP. The most insane areas were Belfry Luna, Iron Keep, and Dragon Shrine.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
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Interesting, I always got invaded more by NPCs than players in DSII. I assumed it was because DS II doesn't have an infinite use Red Orb. Not that I mind anyway because there was always plenty of action with Bellbros and Bloodbros in each playthrough.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
So I started playing Dark Souls 2 again because of the Return to Drangleic event.
I forgot how jank the game was, but at the same time I appreciate some neat little details that Dark Souls 3 was missing. If only they had more time to polish it.
Anyway, I'm trying to run a faith-strength build, and I want to try doing a heavy armor build for once and have fat rolls. Is it is doable, or is it complete crap?
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
730
I've been playing in the event too (second playthrough). Been invaded over a dozen times already and engaged in some co-op shenanigans which I had largely avoided on my first run. I got invaded twice at Belfry Luna which was great, and I even got summoned as a Gray Phantom in Doors to Pharros! My favorite PvP moment was when a guy decked out with a greatsword + hex build invaded me while I was in the butterfly cave in Hunstman's Copse and we had a duel in the water (where the Giant Basilisk is). I barely survived and got him on the ropes despite getting poisoned twice, so he chickened out and escaped to the upper level and casted Warmth to heal up, which couldn't stop me from following him up and giving him a final beatdown.

It's funny, I reread some of the old discussion on this thread about whether DEX weapons were roundly better than STR weapons, and I feel completely vindicated in my belief that STR has some big advantages, at least in the early game. Started as a Cleric and have been whacking everything to death with hammers. Easily destroyed the Pursuer on his rooftop, and I killed Ruin Sentinels on my first try despite accidentally rolling off the ledge and having to fight all 3 at once. Starting Mace isn't bad, and the Craftsman's Hammer is even better. Everything up to the Lost Sinner was a total walk in the park. The other four paths have actually been more challenging due to the encounter design (goddamn Manikins in Earthen Peak). It feels way easier to stumble onto good pure STR weapons early on, particularly due to the effectiveness of Strike against armored foes, where you're pretty much fucked on pure DEX unless you realize how OP rapiers can be. DEX DPS skyrockets later on, but I stand by my old remarks.

Another discovery: Adaptibility is a meme. Agility is not a bad thing to have, but I totally reject the notion that it's mandatory after 86. You get 5 i-Frames as a baseline, +3 at 86, then +1 at 88, 92, 96, 99, 105, 111, 114, and 116. I've found that 8 i-Frames (i.e. just 1 point into ADP as a Cleric) is totally serviceable on a shieldless rolling build, and only went up to 9 later for comfort. The people claiming you need to get all the way to 105 Agility (which is like 30 ADP) just for 13 i-Frames because that's how many you got in the other games need to suck it up and git gud at the dodge timing. Or don't -- it's almost like it's a build choice or something.

In general, I'm so happy to return to DS2 after the overall disappointment I had with DS3. One aspect has to be the leveling. DS1's stats were reasonably compelling overall but you didn't have much room to hybridize due to the steep level curve. DS3's heavily de-emphasized stamina management, useless carry weight due to roll thresholds and gutted armor, overnerfed magic, and homogenized physical damage stats due to uniform type infusions on top of a similarly steep level curve sapped all the enjoyment out of crafting a build, as I just maxed out DEX and VGR and then put a few points into INT and ATN and the game was over. In DS2, I actually want every stat except for DEX, INT, and ADP (lol), and I'm still pondering my choices halfway through the game at level 100, which is higher than the level at which I finished the other two. The relatively flat level curve feels well-suited to the nonlinear branching from Majula, as you still get continually rewarded no matter what order you tackle the four Old Ones, just at a slower and slower rate. I don't think it messes up the difficulty curve too badly either, as every class starts out so gimped compared to the other two games (which I love as it makes your rapid starting choices impactful and fun), and you have the option to poke at the different branches incrementally instead of going down them one at a time if something's too tough.

That's the other thing that's so great about DS2 -- while the haphazard world design is a shame, the amount of freedom you have in DS2 is just awesome. So many paths to explore, so many cool items to find, so much optional content to engage in. It really feels like you're crafting your own journey through the world depending on your bravery and curiosity. DS1 had this too (and the overall progression was better due to the interconnected world design of the first half), but DS3 was just a linear sequence of areas with like two branch points. Moreover, once you progressed past discrete points the game would hand out the previous tier of upgrade materials like candy while stingily doling out scraps of the next tier, making weapon upgrades feel totally rote. In DS2 I'm excited whenever I find a Titanite Slab, or a cool new weapon, or a Fragrant Branch of Yore/Pharros Lockstone to unlock something (those are another great example of how the game promotes player agency). That and the slower-paced tactical combat in group encounters where stamina and positioning are genuinely important just makes it so much more engaging to me. Awesome game.
 
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Joined
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Dark Souls II stat system is no doubt the best in series and people who are pointing to AGL as if it somehow proves it's shit are just morons. Hell, even if you are always going for 100 or 105 AGL you can be done with it after you cleared the first area, so I never understood the amount of whining I saw about it. As I've said before, DS II does the "RPG" part best in series. Couple that with best PvP and you have potential to spend tons of hours in it.
 

Fishy

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Jan 24, 2019
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Oh, didn't realise it was Return to Drangleic time. I might use the opportunity to keep punching things to death with my (obviously fists-only) Muhammad Aldi.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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Dark Souls II stat system is no doubt the best in series and people who are pointing to AGL as if it somehow proves it's shit are just morons. Hell, even if you are always going for 100 or 105 AGL you can be done with it after you cleared the first area, so I never understood the amount of whining I saw about it. As I've said before, DS II does the "RPG" part best in series. Couple that with best PvP and you have potential to spend tons of hours in it.
Yeah I didn't even touch Adaptability and I can roll just fine. Hell circle strafing works pretty well unless its against the heide fuckers with their wide rapid swings.
Its why I'm really tempted to just go full fatty and not bother rolling.
 

Verylittlefishes

Sacro Bosco
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Oh, didn't realise it was Return to Drangleic time. I might use the opportunity to keep punching things to death with my (obviously fists-only) Muhammad Aldi.

Perhaps the most important rule of all is that players need to leave a message by the Majula bonfire with the phrase "Don't give up Skeleton!" This tradition started back in the original "Return to Drangleic" event and references a meme in which Dark Souls 2 players would show their support for the various troubled skeletons found in the game.

So cute. And I lost all my human figurines to summon anyone...
 
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I am not sure yet which one I like more overall. Some things are better in first game and some in second one. I just know I like third game the least.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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I am not sure yet which one I like more overall. Some things are better in first game and some in second one. I just know I like third game the least.
The way I see it, DS3 is the most polished, but also the blandest and the furthest away from Souls gameplay.
DS2 is jank and has a lot of problems, but at least they tried to make it interesting and gave us a lot of content while trying to be faithful to the first game's gameplay.
DS1 is "peak" souls, but feels primitive and limited compared to later installments.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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So I found out that you can still get invaded after defeating the area boss, which is a nice surprise.
I don't really mind that mechanic, it does mix things up a bit.
I do mind NPC invaders attacking when you are hollow, which is something I don't even remember being a thing. I hated it in Ring City and I hate it here.
Also, fuck Shrine of Amana. I forgot how infuriating it is, especially if you are trying to go for a melee tanky build. I had to buy a bunch of poison arrows and do the sniper cheese. I lost like 20k souls trying to get through that bloody area because of the magic spam that aggros from across the map and the archdrake priests with their bullshit instant stagger recovery into three hit poise ignoring combos.

The craftsman's hammer and the blacksmith's hammer are cool weapons. I have them lightning infused and they are doing work. I'm almost tempted to power stance them for the lols.
Butcher's knife is pretty cool as well, but it's pretty heavy.

Anyway, I'm finding that you really don't need to roll that much at all in Dark Souls 2. I'm running a fat build with heavy armor and about 75%+ equip load and got past the Demon of Song and preceding bosses without much issue. Having to fight multiple enemies is a bit of pain, but that's what lightning arrows and the run button is for. Might have to murder Darkseeker to get his dragon chime to get some faster casting speed, because the Priest Chime is pretty slow.

Problem though is that you absolutely need a good shield if you are running fat / roll-less, so you are stuck sword and boarding most of the time. Armor doesn't seem to reduce that much damage or provide poise either, but that's probably because I still have 20 vig.
 
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RoSoDude

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Oct 1, 2016
Messages
730
I like getting NPC invaded while hollow, but I think you should be able to turn it off by joining the Company of Champions (as that also disables co-operative play). Shrine of Amana is one of my favorite levels in the entire series, whoever made it is a sick bastard and I love em. Ranged casters, melee rushers, crawlers sneaking up on you below the surface of water that's slowing you down; there's so much shit going on and it's such an interesting tactical challenge. I'm eager to get back there again (I just got to Drangleic Castle on my current playthrough).

Speaking of which, many people have responded to my love of Shrine of Amana with a "Well, akshually, they nerfed the difficulty and it was much harder in pre-patch release DS2." My fellow bearers of the curse, I am here to tell you that this is a LIE. Well, kinda? Maybe? I'm actually not totally sure. If you check the patch history, you'll find this in Calibrations 1.04:
  • Homing capability of spells casted by White Undead Sorcers and Amana Priestesses reduced.
This video demonstrates the difference between pre-patch and post-patch Shrine of Amana in release DS2:

As you can see, the attacks basically don't home in at all, you can dodge them by simply walking at a snail's pace.

Compare to SotFS Shrine of Amana:

Here, the shots home much more than they did in the post-patch release version. Maybe it's still less than pre-patch? Damage might be nerfed too, it's hard for me to tell. The point is, they've appeared to have found a happy medium that's closer to pre-patch version if anything, so people can stop trying to tell me I've been playing the baby version. Still has teeth.

Totally agree with the point about rolling being unnecessary. DS1 intends for you to use a shield, but you can get by without one. DS3 intends for you to roll spam, and I can't imagine playing any other way. DS2 genuinely wants to let you play however you like, hence my prior comments about ADP; it's totally optional after you get 86 Agility, and is really a choice of comfort and playstyle. So many attacks in this game can simply be dodged by running or strafing, or you can just tank up with a big shield, or you can build into ranged spells, or you could even parry (works on many bosses even though you can't riposte them). Each class starts with a different way to deal and avoid damage, as compared with DS1 where pretty much everyone had a full kit with various strengths and weaknesses.

You're correct that armor isn't tremendously impactful either (10 points of slash/strike/thrust resistance equals 1 point of damage reduction to that type, which I confirmed myself by tanking the same Old Knight hammer attack until I was about to die with and without armor and estimating the damage mitigated under the assumption it's linear), but can be super effective when combined with a shield. I wish that armor scaled harder with your physical defense stat, and also that that scaled more with VIT. Still, it's a reasonably compelling system overall, and I don't mind DS2 being midway on the spectrum from DS1's overpowered tank builds and DS3's gutting of armor towards Fashion Souls.
 
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