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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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Now you have hefty, satisfying strikes and good control of your position on the field.
:smug:
I am playing DS2 with the expansion.
How annoying are invasions? And how many hackers there are?
Got just 1 for an entire playthrough, with a decent amount of invasions throughout the game (1/2 year ago but I guess the numbers should have stabilized by now anyway).
Hacker guy was literally invulnerable but also sucked balls, ended up just jumping to my death after I got bored :lol:
 

jaekl

CHUD LIFE
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This is by far the zaniest soulslike game ever. I got a +1 covetous silver ring in the first few hours and haven’t taken it off since. Now I’m level 136 in the crypts with a dragon tooth wielded in one hand and a tower shield in the other. I have never even considered using something this heavy and costly in stat points in dark souls games but I don’t even know what to do with level up points anymore.

They’re still determined to lure me into ambushes after all this time, but some of the wackier ambushes made me laugh, like the guy that you can clearly see crouching behind a chest when you walk into the windmill zone. I hope none of you fell for that one. My dumpy shortbow has become a death dealing sniper rifle now that I have purchased 999 poison arrows and 999 wooden ones. So, there’s no temptation whatsoever to charge into a ranged enemy and set off an ambush.

A stock of 99 life gems plus all the other shit I’ve picked up including 8 divine blessings AND 3 different upgraded melee weapons *AND* a dozen repair powders means bonfires are only good for fast travel. I’ll often clear a whole level plus the boss in one go. Losing 30,000 souls doesn’t even register to me as a risk.

90% of my deaths have been due to adventuring mishaps like tripping and falling, which I don’t mind. I had my first boss death today to the demon of song because he killed me in one hit, otherwise I would have just jogged away and mashed the life gem button. The award for most kills against me goes to the fire salamanders, I still can’t figure those guys out but they can be poisoned so I don’t have to. It was a bit tough at the start, but once you get going, Dark Souls 2 becomes a giant fantasy playground filled with wacky tools for you to torment helpless monsters with.

For now, I give it :4.5/5: as a dark souls ripoff, even though it’s a bit too silly to take seriously. I’m really happy to see that the lords of the fallen devs have humbled themselves, gone back to the drawing board and actually released something worth playing for once.
 

Max Damage

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dBBQUfW.png

It's hilarious how useless best shield is in this fight, melee attacks drain stamina fast and stagger you while you still have it, because fuck you, and magic does a lot of chip damage through it. At least regular enemies don't have retarded high poise unlike ones in Shulva, I guess.
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.

Also Dark Souls 2 is awful, what are you getting at? They can't even get movement right! If you want to understand why DS2 is awful in one example, try moving forward and slightly to the left. Either you will go forward only, or your character will "snap" to moving 45 degrees to the left. This movement snapping results in many deaths, especially because DS2 has a lot of segments that require jumping at specific angles (like the lava areas which have rocks at certain spots). The game will punish you for it's own shitty controls. Then you have the early regen ring and unlimited life gems utterly ruining the health balance (this could have easily been fixed by capping the player at 20 total life gems of all types combined), the awful branches of yore which have some branches behind others, so if you do them in the wrong order you permanently miss out on things, the largely pointless lockstones that will either give you powerful items or give you nothing, the horrible bosses with woeful hit registration fighting you in tight rooms where you can't move very much, and you have a totally unplayable mess of a game. SOTFS is even worse because the number of enemies has been arbitrarily quadrupled for "difficulty" and it just results in having to kite and chop through endless amounts of spam to actually get anywhere, which is extremely tedious and not a good way to add difficulty. Most people sum up DS2's issues as "lol Adaptability" and leave it at that, but it's far, far worse than that. Adaptability is a small issue in a vast ocean of horrendous game design choices.

Dark Souls 2 isn't just bad, it's irredeemably bad, and using it as an example of "stupid gamers not understanding game design" is asinine. Dark Souls fans probably understand gameplay FAR more than the average gamer (on account of Dark Souls being far more complex and far less accessible than the average game), and simply handwaiving their criticisms away to defend a lackluster game is disingenuous. Dark Souls 2 is horribly designed, there's no other reasonable conclusion that can be drawn given the evidence. You can like it as much as you want, taste is subjective, but it's really not a good game and the people rightly considering it awful have some very good arguments as to why. You can't simply ignore what they are saying by concluding they are stupid.
That's probably the most retarded take on DS2 I've ever seen and I've seen A LOT of jaw-droppingly retarded takes on DS2 over the years.

This needs to be shared in the DS2 thread, ppl gonna have a blast.
 

Reever

Scholar
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Dark Souls fans probably understand gameplay FAR more than the average gamer
They can't even understand their own game without watching youtube ecelebs like vaatividya or lobos. They still think DS2 is the only game with hitbox problems when it's a thing that has always plagued the series.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
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Messages
963

Also Dark Souls 2 is awful, what are you getting at? They can't even get movement right! If you want to understand why DS2 is awful in one example, try moving forward and slightly to the left. Either you will go forward only, or your character will "snap" to moving 45 degrees to the left. This movement snapping results in many deaths, especially because DS2 has a lot of segments that require jumping at specific angles (like the lava areas which have rocks at certain spots). The game will punish you for it's own shitty controls. Then you have the early regen ring and unlimited life gems utterly ruining the health balance (this could have easily been fixed by capping the player at 20 total life gems of all types combined), the awful branches of yore which have some branches behind others, so if you do them in the wrong order you permanently miss out on things, the largely pointless lockstones that will either give you powerful items or give you nothing, the horrible bosses with woeful hit registration fighting you in tight rooms where you can't move very much, and you have a totally unplayable mess of a game. SOTFS is even worse because the number of enemies has been arbitrarily quadrupled for "difficulty" and it just results in having to kite and chop through endless amounts of spam to actually get anywhere, which is extremely tedious and not a good way to add difficulty. Most people sum up DS2's issues as "lol Adaptability" and leave it at that, but it's far, far worse than that. Adaptability is a small issue in a vast ocean of horrendous game design choices.

Dark Souls 2 isn't just bad, it's irredeemably bad, and using it as an example of "stupid gamers not understanding game design" is asinine. Dark Souls fans probably understand gameplay FAR more than the average gamer (on account of Dark Souls being far more complex and far less accessible than the average game), and simply handwaiving their criticisms away to defend a lackluster game is disingenuous. Dark Souls 2 is horribly designed, there's no other reasonable conclusion that can be drawn given the evidence. You can like it as much as you want, taste is subjective, but it's really not a good game and the people rightly considering it awful have some very good arguments as to why. You can't simply ignore what they are saying by concluding they are stupid.
That's probably the most retarded take on DS2 I've ever seen and I've seen A LOT of jaw-droppingly retarded takes on DS2 over the years.

This needs to be shared in the DS2 thread, ppl gonna have a blast.
Dark souls 2 on the PC is glitched. It's movement deadzones are set completely wrong so you're stuck to moving in 8 directions. It can be fixed with a mod. Console version doesn't have this issue
It's like he just copied and pasted shit from Mauler's needlessly long video series.
Isn't that basically every Dark souls 2 hater?
Dark Souls fans probably understand gameplay FAR more than the average gamer
They can't even understand their own game without watching youtube ecelebs like vaatividya or lobos. They still think DS2 is the only game with hitbox problems when it's a thing that has always plagued the series.
Most of them are PvP kiddies bitching about the adventure elements. From games are Triple A jank and I'll fight any one who wants to defend their grab hit boxes or enemies attacking through walls.
 
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It's like he just copied and pasted shit from Mauler's needlessly long video series.

I love it how nobody is actually addressing the arguments at hand, and would rather sling mud.

Deniers gonna deny.

They can't even understand their own game without watching youtube ecelebs like vaatividya or lobos. They still think DS2 is the only game with hitbox problems when it's a thing that has always plagued the series.

SURELY you're not stupid enough to equate lore (which is lacking in every DS game) with gameplay.
 
Joined
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The meta pushed by youtubers is that DS2 has bad hitboxes, so everyone believes it's the only game with bad hitboxes. It's simply not true. All of the games have shit hitboxes, including Elden Ring sometimes. It's part of the experience.
 
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The meta pushed by youtubers is that DS2 has bad hitboxes, so everyone believes it's the only game with bad hitboxes. It's simply not true. All of the games have shit hitboxes, including Elden Ring sometimes. It's part of the experience.
If it was just the hitboxes, DS2 would be as broken as the rest. When you combine it with needing ADP to roll effectively and having less iframes on average compared to DS1, bad hitboxes become more noticeable and feel even less fair than usual.

The hitboxes just add extra frustration to an already frustrating experience.

Even if I never mentioned hitboxes at all, the rest of my points would be enough to undermine pretty much everything they added/changed. It's bad design all the way down to the core, and fixing some wonky hitboxes wouldn't suddenly make the game good, nor does other games in the series also having bad hitboxes magically justify DS2's horrendous design decisions.

It's a shame, really. DS1 was far from perfect and there's so much they could have done to improve the gameplay in significant ways. Instead we got DS2.
 

Max Damage

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As someone who recently played through all of Dark Souls 2, the most noticeable repeat offender is blade thrust attack on several bosses, its actual hitbox extends way to their right side and/or lingers on. Enemies hitting you through walls is just From being lazy fucks by this point.
 

Silverfish

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I love it how nobody is actually addressing the arguments at hand, and would rather sling mud.

Okay.

Regen ring / abundance of lifegems: The regen ring specifically is there to give new players a leg-up in the early game. The regen effect is pretty slow and not useful for anyone with decent armor, high adaptability, a greatshield, high vigor or possibly all four. But for someone without any of that or an inexperienced player in general (DS2 was a lot of people's first foray into the series), having a crutch like that was a Godsend at the beginning, comparable to the drake sword in the previous game. Lifegems are everywhere and basically supplant the estus system because you take damage more often in DS2 than the other games, relative to skill level. Agility means you'll get clipped a lot while rolling until you've got a hefty investment in adp, no classes start with shields that have 100% physical block and DS2 gets trickier with poison and other damage over time effects (Smelter Demons for instance) than any other game in the series. Weirdly enough, an excess of healing items allowed b-team to prevent the game from being too easy at the outset.

Movement: I agree that the movement 'snap' or whatever people call it is annoying, but it's also easily compensated for and if it results in more than a couple of deaths, you're actively trying not to adjust. It's a non-issue in combat, since this isn't Nioh and footsies don't come into play, especially if you lock-on. For what it's worth, I agree that the platforming sucks, but that's a recurring problem for the series and not something I'd lay at b-team's door.

Fragrant Branches of Yore / permanently missing items or paths: Making items permanently unavailable, encouraging subsequent playthroughs and discouraging the "I've got to get 100%" mindset is one of the best elements of DS2, not a problem to be fixed. So far as the branches themselves are concerned? I could see them not being everyone's cup of tea ("I want to see the new area now!"), but they make more sense if you look at them as carrying on the tradition of ability-based gates in games like Metroid or Castlevania or weird-key doors in things like Resident Evil or Devil May Cry.

Boss hitboxes / boss rooms: I've never bought the thing about DS2 hitboxes, except in extreme cases like dlc bosses whiffing grab attacks, but then suddenly connecting. The issue largely (but again, not completely) stems from the early days of the game's life where no one understood adp / agility. To be fair, this is From's fault as much as anyone. Adp is poorly explained in-game and (I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it's funny so it bears repeating) the "official" FuturePress guide (that hired 'hardcore fans' as writers) writes off the stat as almost worthless (I shit you not: "Raising adaptability evenly with endurance increases your innate poise." Thank you, washed-up youtuber.) As a result the issue was blown out of proportion. There are certainly issues, but they're not as prevalent as fan backlash suggests and are usually easily countered with high agility or a sturdy greatshield. Boss rooms on the other hand are definitely a mixed bag. Most are pretty good, but Guardian / Ancient Dragons, Bell Gargoyles & Smelter Demon can all be infuriating as the bosses are either too big or too numerous to keep track of.

Scholar Edition: Looked at in context, Scholar is pretty good. It's Master Quest, but for DS2, and offers a lot of surprises and mix-ups for those of us who played the original too much. As a stand-alone release though, I completely agree and it's fucking gay that it supplanted vanilla DS2.
 
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Regen ring / abundance of lifegems: The regen ring specifically is there to give new players a leg-up in the early game. The regen effect is pretty slow and not useful for anyone with decent armor, high adaptability, a greatshield, high vigor or possibly all four. But for someone without any of that or an inexperienced player in general (DS2 was a lot of people's first foray into the series), having a crutch like that was a Godsend at the beginning, comparable to the drake sword in the previous game. Lifegems are everywhere and basically supplant the estus system because you take damage more often in DS2 than the other games, relative to skill level. Agility means you'll get clipped a lot while rolling until you've got a hefty investment in adp, no classes start with shields that have 100% physical block and DS2 gets trickier with poison and other damage over time effects (Smelter Demons for instance) than any other game in the series. Weirdly enough, an excess of healing items allowed b-team to prevent the game from being too easy at the outset.

No. All it does is encourage degenerate waiting gameplay. Barely survive a fight? Just wait lol. It helps to completely obliterate the resource management aspect. Healing in Dark Souls was good precisely because outside of a few rare consumables, your health was irrevocably limited by your number of estus flasks. This meant that every hit you took mattered. This is made worse by lifegems which can be bought (and held) in virtually unlimited quantities for relatively cheap. DS2 has to compensate for this lack of consequence by upping the difficulty of every encounter by a factor of ten, which is why so many things in this game have extreme HP pools and ridiculous attacks - they are compensating for a problem they themselves created, and are doing a bad job in the process.

DS2 made the individual combats harder, but only because it completely removed one of the most important aspects of resource management in the original game. Now, if you want to play optimally, it's a boring game of surviving combat and then waiting.

Ironically, if they wanted to ACTUALLY make the game harder, they could have removed all of the degenerate strategies present in the original - namely getting enemies stuck and killing them with a bow, running outside of their aggro range, etc etc. None of these were fixed and in fact were made worse in the DLCs because there are multiple elevators you can stand underneath, which AI won't path into.

This is a classic case of not understanding the core problem and just upping the enemy stats in a vain attempt to fix the difficulty issues they created/exacerbated.

I agree that the Regen Ring was added to make the game easier for newer players, similar to the Drake Sword. Unlike the ring, however, the Drake Sword doesn't undermine the core mechanics of the game.

DS3 had this same issue with it's Divine items. At least it was merciful enough to make players wait for a while before giving them out, so there was at least some challenge initially.

Movement: I agree that the movement 'snap' or whatever people call it is annoying, but it's also easily compensated for and if it results in more than a couple of deaths, you're actively trying not to adjust. It's a non-issue in combat, since this isn't Nioh and footsies don't come into play, especially if you lock-on. For what it's worth, I agree that the platforming sucks, but that's a recurring problem for the series and not something I'd lay at b-team's door.

You'd have a point if the movement wasn't DEMONSTRABLY worse than in DS1. Literally all they had to do was port over the controls exactly. It wouldn't have been great, but would have been serviceable, as it is in DS1. Instead they made it worse. Because they made everything worse.

Fragrant Branches of Yore / permanently missing items or paths: Making items permanently unavailable, encouraging subsequent playthroughs and discouraging the "I've got to get 100%" mindset is one of the best elements of DS2, not a problem to be fixed. So far as the branches themselves are concerned? I could see them not being everyone's cup of tea ("I want to see the new area now!"), but they make more sense if you look at them as carrying on the tradition of ability-based gates in games like Metroid or Castlevania or weird-key doors in things like Resident Evil or Devil May Cry.

You have missed my point.

My point is not that fragrant branches are a bad mechanic inherently. I think they are fine.

The issue is that there are enough fragrant branches to unlock everything in 1 playthrough, but only if you do them in the correct order, because some branches lead to other branches. This order is not specified anywhere, so it's essentially blind luck whether or not a player finds everything or not.

This isn't some tactical decision based on player choice that allows players to make different decisions on replays to get different rewards, and it's not comparable to an ability gate because it's not based on player build or decisionmaking whatsoever. It's purely luck. It's basically saying "oh, you missed something because you did it in the wrong order, better luck next time, bucko!".

That's not replayability, that's just annoying. The player is being arbitrarily punished through no fault of their own for the crime of not looking at a wiki article for the right order.

Beyond their first playthrough, there's no reason any player would ever do the branches in any order other than the optimal one. Even if you think this adds "replayability", it lasts for a maximum of 1 playthrough.

Boss hitboxes / boss rooms: I've never bought the thing about DS2 hitboxes, except in extreme cases like dlc bosses whiffing grab attacks, but then suddenly connecting. The issue largely (but again, not completely) stems from the early days of the game's life where no one understood adp / agility. To be fair, this is From's fault as much as anyone. Adp is poorly explained in-game and (I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it's funny so it bears repeating) the "official" FuturePress guide (that hired 'hardcore fans' as writers) writes off the stat as almost worthless (I shit you not: "Raising adaptability evenly with endurance increases your innate poise." Thank you, washed-up youtuber.) As a result the issue was blown out of proportion. There are certainly issues, but they're not as prevalent as fan backlash suggests and are usually easily countered with high agility or a sturdy greatshield. Boss rooms on the other hand are definitely a mixed bag. Most are pretty good, but Guardian / Ancient Dragons, Bell Gargoyles & Smelter Demon can all be infuriating as the bosses are either too big or too numerous to keep track of.

People overexaggerating the issue doesn't make it an invalid complaint. There are countless of examples of the hitboxes just being plain bad in many cases throughout the entire series, and ADP has nothing to do with it, other than making it even worse at low ADP levels.

I have seen countless videos of a boss thrusting, the character diving past it, then teleporting to the end of the blade. The pursuer is particularly bad for this.

Scholar Edition: Looked at in context, Scholar is pretty good. It's Master Quest, but for DS2, and offers a lot of surprises and mix-ups for those of us who played the original too much. As a stand-alone release though, I completely agree and it's fucking gay that it supplanted vanilla DS2.

It doesn't help that FROM marketed it as "the definitive edition" and outright tells you on the original's Steam page to buy SOTFS instead.

But even as a "Mario Kaizo" sort of thing, it's still bad. There are some positive aspects and some improvements - proper darkness making the torch useful and implementing the DLC items into the world rather than having them magically teleport into your inventory are good changes (although there's no reason why this wasn't done in the original in the first place), but the enemy placements are just bad. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Everything is increased by an order of magnitude to the point where tiny side rooms will contain 10-15 random enemies for no reason, old bosses are copy pasted into new areas where they don't work well, and in general it just comes across as really lazy, like they considered the original version too easy (probably because of the absolutely broken healing mechanics) and decided to add in more stuff to increase the difficulty.

Also, having to pay for integrated DLC and 64-bit support is unforgivable.
 
Last edited:

Silverfish

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No. All it does is encourage degenerate waiting gameplay. Barely survive a fight? Just wait lol.

By definition it can't, since you also have an abundance of healing items.

DS2 has to compensate for this lack of consequence by upping the difficulty of every encounter by a factor of ten, which is why so many things in this game have extreme HP pools and ridiculous attacks

Outside of Scholar, this doesn't happen. Combat encounters are pretty much on a par with the first with one or two exceptions.

DS3 had this same issue with it's Divine items.

DS3 is ten times worse. You can stack multiple blessed items with the regeneration miracle. Full-on regen builds are actually an option in DS3.

The issue is that there are enough fragrant branches to unlock everything in 1 playthrough, but only if you do them in the correct order, because some branches lead to other branches. This order is not specified anywhere, so it's essentially blind luck whether or not a player finds everything or not.

Yes, that's why it's good.
 
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By definition it can't, since you also have an abundance of healing items.

So you agree with me about the healing balance being completely fucked then? You can't have it both ways. Either healing is limited, at which point the regen ring becomes a waiting game, or healing is overabundant, completely fucking the resource management aspect of the game and undermining it's core balance.

Outside of Scholar, this doesn't happen. Combat encounters are pretty much on a par with the first with one or two exceptions.

You already admit there's an abundance of healing items. Therefore, either the game is way too easy, or they have to increase the difficulty of the fights in order to compensate for the increased healing. Neither of these options allow the combat encounters to be on par with DS1. Seeing as how both Forest of Fallen Giants and Heides Tower of Flame have significantly harder enemies than Undead Burg, I don't know where you're getting this idea from. Do you have a single piece of evidence that the combat encounters are on par with DS1?

DS3 is ten times worse. You can stack multiple blessed items with the regeneration miracle. Full-on regen builds are actually an option in DS3.

So Regen is bad in DS3, but good in DS2 because it's "for newer players". Cool.

Yes, that's why it's good.

We aren't going to agree here, you're just plain wrong. If you think trial and error with arbitrary failure states are good game design, then you're entitled to your opinion, but I would question your taste. This is generally why people consider DS2 fans to be delusional. Any and all bad gameplay can be handwaived away by simply concluding that it's actually good, even if it results in gameplay that anywhere else is nearly universally despised, and for good reason.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this. You've obviously already made up your mind and no amount of reasoning is going to convince you that a game you personally enjoy is actually bad. At the end of the day, argument don't work against experience, that's how bias works. There's no point even trying anymore, it's like arguing against a brick wall.
 

Silverfish

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So you agree with me about the healing balance being completely fucked then?

Nope. Already covered why it's fine.

Seeing as how both Forest of Fallen Giants and Heides Tower of Flame have significantly harder enemies than Undead Burg, I don't know where you're getting this idea from. Do you have a single piece of evidence that the combat encounters are on par with DS1?

Where? Forest has hollows (like the Burg), turtle guys (slow, easy to dodge even with low agility), a Heide knight who you have to initiate hostility with and a couple of easy bosses. Granted, the fire lizards are very difficult, but you have to go pretty far out of your way to fight them. Heide has giant knights (super slow, easy to dodge, very weak against blunt attacks) and again, a couple of easy bosses.

So Regen is bad in DS3, but good in DS2 because it's "for newer players". Cool.

Not objectively bad, just "worse" in the sense of being easier to rely upon.

If you think trial and error with arbitrary failure states are good game design

The branches don't have an arbitrary failure state. The only critical path area they gate is the Shaded Woods, and you'll find enough branched to unlock that, even if you activate every statue found before that point. For the record, I don't think trial and error is bad game design. Experimentation is meaningless if you can't fail.

There's no point even trying anymore, it's like arguing against a brick wall.

I don't see how. I even agreed with a bit of what you said, I just think your overall approach to the game is off.
 
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May 2, 2012
Messages
536
Faint nostalgia here seeing a poster sperg out over DS2.

The derived Agility stat remains the only truly counter-intuitive change to mechanics the game made. Not necessarily a bad idea but probably should have been heavily signposted given how fundamentally it alters the previous game’s established conventions regarding armor selection and stat allocation.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
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Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
I love it how nobody is actually addressing the arguments at hand, and would rather sling mud.

Deniers gonna deny.
Pot calling the kettle a nigger over here. I address the movement argument directly. The PC version has fucked deadzones and snaps you. Console does not. You can patch the PC to mostly fix it.
If it was just the hitboxes, DS2 would be as broken as the rest. When you combine it with needing ADP to roll effectively and having less iframes on average compared to DS1, bad hitboxes become more noticeable and feel even less fair than usual.
Oh no, I have to spend 5 of my 125 levels to get a medium roll. I'm going crazy! Help!!
Making items permanently unavailable, encouraging subsequent playthroughs
It's also something every other souls game does. There's always items you can't get if you get another one. Boss souls often have 2 or 3 options for using them.
Healing in Dark Souls was good precisely because outside of a few rare consumables, your health was irrevocably limited by your number of estus flasks.
No it wasn't. Humanity is all over the place and grass was even more common. There's no problem with having lots of healing unless the developers use it as a crutch to excuse lazy boss design (3 and ER do this). Souls games don't have to be LE HARD GAME. They're about finding a personal path forward. There has always been excessive healing options and 1 shot kills on bosses. Souls games are only hard if you play them fairly and you never had to do that. Soul spear melts most of Dark souls 1 and you can beat a lot of bosses without them closing the distance.
Now, if you want to play optimally, it's a boring game of surviving combat and then waiting.
Optimally is never being hit. So no, it's not.
You already admit there's an abundance of healing items. Therefore, either the game is way too easy, or they have to increase the difficulty of the fights in order to compensate for the increased healing
Dark souls 1 can have 20 estus, healing miracles and humanity. There was never a shortage of healing in these games. Dark souls 2 tends to have larger gaps between bonefires and healing items cost souls if you're bad at the game and the game was designed to limit your ability to farm. In a 'pure' run you can only kill an enemy 7 times and then you're shit out of luck. Do you want to spend those souls leveling up or buying healing? Can't do both.
The derived Agility stat remains the only truly counter-intuitive change to mechanics the game made
Covenant of champions wasn't explained well either. But it's From, they don't explain shit any way.
 
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Jan 7, 2012
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15,257
Lots of dumb shit, but the actual problems with DS2:

- Health Gems are too abusable. There's literally no sense of needing to endure an area. The game is actually balanced just fine for only using Estus. Health gems are the equivalent of resting after every battle in a CRPG and a massive casualization.
- Farming/power leveling is way too easy to do. Once you understand the Bonfire Ascetic mechanic you can easily gain dozens of levels in minutes by the midgame.
- Even ignoring the power leveling methods, you get way more levels than DS1 and this combined with the fact that soft stat caps exist means that past the early game builds are way too homogenized. By the end of a DS1 playthrough a warrior investing in str/end/vit probably hasn't even reached the soft cap for just those 3 stats. And End/Vit are close to required stats, so really we just say that you built a Str-based character. A DS2 playthrough (including DLC) ends with at least half your stats around the soft cap. This means that everyone ends up a master of multiple weapons and magic styles. There's no such thing as a str build or dex build (unless you're an idiot who takes them to 99), instead everyone ends up some str/dex/int combined monstrosity with a million options to deal with anything.
- The way damage is calculated makes armor basically irrelevant, which makes the whole depth of heavy armor vs. light armor builds irrelevant, which was a huge part of DS1.
- Late game/DLC enemies having ridiculous resistances which makes even super powered magic spells that require several seconds of vulnerability deal less damage than a 0.2s poke with a rapier. Also a problem with how damage is calculated.
- DS2 nerfing practically all of the "fun" items that let you make super high damage builds in DS1 through lots of damage multipliers was a bad thing. Red Tearstone ring in DS1: 50% damage increase, DS2: 20%. Especially the magic boosting equipment in DS2 is really just pathetic and a waste of time to obtain. Rings in DS1 increased your damage by 25% or spell duration by 50%, in DS2 its like 5% and 20%.


ADP is really dumb (and on release playing with low ADP on a starter character was so fucking awful that I immediately shelved the game for over a year), but once you understand it it doesn't really matter aside from making the early game play bad. Most other complaints are dumb. lmaoing at the idea of actually caring about regeneration, if you're playing the game watching paint dry for 5 minutes between every fight you need to get a life.
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
^ This. A rare intelligent writeup of DS2 flaws.

I'd say the nerf point is both bad and good, as it's the primary reason why the PvP in this game was way more enjoyable and long-lasting than DS1 with all the stupid busted builds. And of course the primary point of decline compared to DS1 is the level design, with far more linearity and far less interconnectedness. Otherwise agreed.
 

Max Damage

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Life gems would be fine if you couldn't have 99 of them readily available AND in several variations too, Souls formula doesn't mesh well with practically unlimited healing.
 

cvv

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Life gems would be fine if you couldn't have 99 of them readily available AND in several variations too, Souls formula doesn't mesh well with practically unlimited healing.
Yeah, altho I do think I was dying more on my first run than in DS1. Or in any other FromSoft game. I'd say the traversal is more challenging in DS2 with more devious enemy encounters, so maybe the gems should've compensated for that. Still they were a mistake.

Oh and the soul memory thing. I do understand why they implemented it but it kept pissing me off for some reason.
 
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Soul memory feels like something that has an outsized impact in how players think about the game more than it actually impacts the game. New players read about it, think "oh no I have to be super autistic about saving and not losing souls", end up making the game infinitely harder on themselves because they assume that the system is well balanced and soul memory is supposed to be an actual substantial downside to just buying 99 life gems and trivializing the healing system. Then you finish the game, realize soul memory doesn't matter, and buy 99 life gems the next time you play. It's a bad mechanic but only because its so weak in practice that it does fuckall rather than confuse players.

It could work if you substantially reworked the economy to sharply limit the number of souls players could farm and make difficulty increase the higher soul memory goes (basically delete bonfire ascetics and move up NG+ with soul memory). But that'd be a very, very different kind of game, more of a roguelike.
 

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