The Eye of the Beholder Thread

[Unkillable Cat]

I've been mucking about a bit with the 1.9 version. There are new doors visible on the first few levels that can only be opened from the other side, probably related to the "new" area you reach via the Stone Gem.

Items have also been replaced and/or removed. Many Cleric Scrolls are now either Slow Poison or Neutralize Poison, a response to people who kept getting raped by the Giant Spiders on level 4. Oddly enough, the supply room on level 4 that had 4 potions of Cure Poison is empty. And the unreachable room on level 5 is still unreachable... at least I haven't found any way of getting in there.

And I disagree with one statement in the Russian document: They claim that the 1.6 and 1.7 versions had purely cosmetic changes, but at least those versions don't have the huge bugs that were present in 1.4, so some bugfixing took place.

EDIT: Finally reached the "new" content. Found the Stone Gem on level 10, used it to get to level 2. There you can choose to go up or down. Going up leads you to a set of corridors that end in a door that takes you to the rest of level 1. Going down takes you to a small corridor (and a door I couldn't open) that eventually connects back to the rest of level 3. The only items found in this new area is a pack of Iron Rations and a non-magical dagger.

I did find a bug that was fixed: Magical darts in EOB1 never glowed when Detect Magic was cast, now they do. The thing is, this may have introduced a new bug. A set of Bracers that is normally non-magical, now glows when Detect Magic is cast.

 

[groke]

Oddly enough, the supply room on level 4 that had 4 potions of Cure Poison is empty.

Interestingly, I just reached the potion room and they were there for me...

 

[Fowyr]

I remember they were removed, because demo version don't have them and they simplified spider encounters too much.
Also check previous page for second part of Q0. I definitely not going to translate whole FAQ, but matters of the unfinished ending should be translated.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Fowyr: Could you translate perhaps the last section of the FAQ, the 18 "interesting facts"?

To be more specific, I'm having trouble understanding #8, #11, and #13-#18.

#1 says that you can pick locks even though your Thief is dead. It's the same thing as with translating text, your characters can do it even when they're dead.

#2 says that a shield will confer its AC bonus even if it's in a greyed-out hand, and also suits of armour.

#3 says that we should not save a game while making an attack, as it may lead to the "greyed-out" status of the hand sticking.

#4 says that the Wand of Silvias works on all monsters, and that you can even push them into pits, but does it say that there are some squares that monsters cannot be pushed into?

Thanks to Joonas we know all know about the extra Mage spells. (#5)

#6 refers to the dart puzzle on level 6, and that each time you put a dart/dagger into one of the disappearing shelves, you can run back through the windy passage back to the first pressure plate, and it will spit out two more darts. This way you can end up with about 50 darts, but you'll also run into another problem: Too many items on the level. So eventually the darts will stop appearing.

#7 refers to a trap on level 10 that they claim works repeatedely. In v1.6 and v1.7 it only works once.

#9 correctly states that the Ring of Sustenance (characters doesn't go hungry) doesn't work. They also don't work in EOB2, but they do in EOB3.

#10 refers to the dev tool of unlimited XP being awarded for stepping into a specific square. Namely, the square beyond the pile of rocks you see at the start of the game.

#12 refers to a bug that if you resurrect Tod Uphill, Anya's bones disappear, and vice versa. A bug I never encountered while playing with v1.6 and v1.7.

 

[Fowyr]

Not a literal translation.
#4 Monsters don't fall in the pits, but "balance" on the edge.
#7 If you touch wall again, new monster don't appear and you will see "Keep an eye out for trouble" message.
#8 Universally believed what after SQ#10 you will gain four rings. But some people report what quantity of rings can be less than four and their types are not fixed. I personally once not gained even one ring! We still can't find how type and quantity of rings is set. Probably it just uses RNG.
#11 It was reported what you will gain a lot of experience walking through random places on the level six. This "unfair" experience soon lost again.
#13 Jokes about gender of Ileria (she is a worthy Codex material, i.e. male) and falling from the grace of Beohram (he is fighter, but had paladin holy symbol)

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Thanks for the help. One thing I can clarify a little on:

#11 It was reported what you will gain a lot of experience walking through random places on the level six. This "unfair" experience soon lost again.

There are places throughout EOB1 where you gain XP for doing stuff other than killing monsters. These can be spotted as far down as level 7. While there are a few of them on level 6 that I know of, the REAL source of XP on level 6 are the Kenku. They yield 5000 XP each, when they really should only give 975.

I can confirm that the rings dropped from the Special Quest on Level 10 are random, but at the most you can get a ring of Feather Falling, two rings of Protection +2 and a ring of Sustenance.

 

[Taxnomore]

Which reminds me, I like drawing maps, but I'm not that much fond of paper. Does anyone know of a tool to map your progression in another window in such games?

 

[groke]

Which reminds me, I like drawing maps, but I'm not that much fond of paper. Does anyone know of a tool to map your progression in another window in such games?

Excel?

There was a thread on this a while back: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/any-good-dungeon-mapping-software.65873/
I found all the suggestions a bit lacking.

 

[Joonas]

I've updated the mapper to support EOB 2. No clue book hints and haven't played it through yet but seems to be mostly ok for all level maps.

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/ase/

I added "EOB 2 oddities" section to the homepage:

• In the main executable, there are three mage spells listed that are not accessible: Finger of Death (7th level), Power Word, Stun (7th) and Bigby's Clenched Fist (8th). I've added the possibility to memorize these as 6th level spells with the character editor. Note that you can't memorize these spells normally from the game as it only shows spells up to level 6. The first two spells work somehow.
• For clerics, the 7th level spell Resurrection is listed (spelled as "Ressurection" in the game). As with the mage spells, I've added the the memorization option but the spell doesn't seem to do anything.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Thanks for that, Joonas!

All of those spells are available in EOB3, BTW. Interesting to know that Westwood were planning on having characters reaching higher levels than they do.

Another oddity I found is a piece of text in one of the data files, and does not appear in-game at all:

“You think you are the best
my master should have guessed
you dance the jester's path
are you wolf, or are you calf?”

 

[Kersey]

Thanks for all your work on these oldies, Joonas.

Out of curiosity, has anyone else played with the engine upgrade for EOB3? This is what I speak of. I haven't tested it very thoroughly but is seems to work very well. In fact it seems to me the only way to get EOB3 to work in DOSBox bearably, though using DOSBox 0.73 instead of 0.74 was necessary for smooth running. Can't remember what the problem exactly was but that's how I set it up after having problems with the newer version.

Oh, and I would be very interested in an automap for EOB3. Preferably the upgraded version at that unless there are problems with it that I'm not aware of of course.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Out of curiosity, has anyone else played with the engine upgrade for EOB3? This is what I speak of. I haven't tested it very thoroughly but is seems to work very well. In fact it seems to me the only way to get EOB3 to work in DOSBox bearably, though using DOSBox 0.73 instead of 0.74 was necessary for smooth running.

Wait, they managed to salvage something from that project? Cool beans... I think. I read the thread and followed the instructions... and I don't notice any difference. But then again, I never had much trouble with getting EOB3 to run. I just use the standard setup, except I boost the cycles up to 10000. I even went back and forth between two different versions of EOB3 and if there's a difference, I'm not seeing it. :-/

Oh, and I would be very interested in an automap for EOB3. Preferably the upgraded version at that unless there are problems with it that I'm not aware of of course.

The most obvious problem is that EOB3 runs on a completely different engine from EOB1 and EOB2. Getting All Seeing Eye to work with it will take LOTS of work, if it's doable at all. Frankly, getting ASE to work with Lands of Lore sounds more probable.

That said, a solution can possibly be found in the game Dungeon Hack. It uses the same engine as EOB3, and has an in-built automap included. Maybe that can somehow be duplicated and made to run alongside EOB3?

 

[darkling]

Woo! Thanks for the EOB2 update! :D

Doesn't EOB3 also have that maze with the diagonal movements? I might have mis-remembered something as I haven't tried it since the mid-90's, but did that actually work on the grid?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

...diagonal movements? Maybe you mean the thorny pathways in the forest, where you had to click either left, forward or right on the "wall", depending on where you wanted to go?

 

[Kersey]

Wait, they managed to salvage something from that project? Cool beans... I think. I read the thread and followed the instructions... and I don't notice any difference. But then again, I never had much trouble with getting EOB3 to run. I just use the standard setup, except I boost the cycles up to 10000. I even went back and forth between two different versions of EOB3 and if there's a difference, I'm not seeing it. :-/

Hmm... I have to look into that later. It's been about a year since I last played around with these but I remember having problems with EOB3 (original floppy version with patch to 1.2). Choppiness of combat and severe sound issues from what I remember but I can't describe them too specifically from memory. I'm sure there was a difference but I'll look into it later and see if I still notice it.

The most obvious problem is that EOB3 runs on a completely different engine from EOB1 and EOB2. Getting All Seeing Eye to work with it will take LOTS of work, if it's doable at all. Frankly, getting ASE to work with Lands of Lore sounds more probable.

Actually that's a big part of why I'm so interested in it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

...but I remember having problems with EOB3 (original floppy version with patch to 1.2).

Patch 1.2? Tell me more.

Because from what I gather, there is no patch available for EOB3. While a 1.1 patch was made, it was never released pubilcly.

And reading on another forum, I clearly did something wrong with the AESOP 32 setup. I'm gonna have another look at it tomorrow.

 

[darkling]

I just finished setting up the AESOP 32 thing. I figure I did anyhow. I followed steps and replaced files the game runs and works so I had to have done something right. It still feels sluggish but certainly not as bad as I remember. I could post my new AESOP 32'd EOB3 folder, zipped up and modded, to mediafire or something if you want.

I did discover the comment on VOGONS about there being crazy popping sounds in DOSBox 0.74 that aren't present in 0.73 to be a real replicatable thing, too. I think it's re-initializing the sound card repeatedly? In 0.73 I get the pops when the game launches but it doesn't happen mid-game. In 0.74 it pops as I walk around hitting ghosts. :/

...diagonal movements? Maybe you mean the thorny pathways in the forest, where you had to click either left, forward or right on the "wall", depending on where you wanted to go?

Yeah! I looked for a map of it and it certainly is a mess.

 

[Kersey]

Well it didn't take too long to check out the two versions. The major difference is that the new one is faster. Restoring a game takes a lot less time (with same settings in DOSBox) and the entire world doesn't stop for the duration of a monster's attack animation every single time. Sound effects also play more or less perfectly in the new version while in the old one they have a lot of intermittent pauses. The original version also omits a lot of sound effects when there are (supposed to be) several played at once, can't say for sure if this is different in the new one.

I don't know, maybe that's very minor stuff to some. The glitchy sound effects are played constantly and they did/do annoy me in the original. The constant pausing during combat is the worst though. After a while I simply wanted to stop playing the game because of that whenever I tried playing it in the past.

 

[Kersey]

Patch 1.2? Tell me more.

Because from what I gather, there is no patch available for EOB3. While a 1.1 patch was made, it was never released pubilcly.

Oh, that's interesting. I can't seem to find anything on it either and can't remember for sure where I got it. I wonder what it actually does since it doesn't come with a readme. Just the standard SSI installer, same as on the main game. The patch comes on two disks and contains these files:

CHARGEN\CHGEN.EXE (date when patched: 25/6/1993, original: 11/4/1993)
CHARCOPY.EXE (date when patched: 25/6/1993, original: 5/4/1993)
EYE.RES (date when patched: 6/7/1993, original: 14/4/1993)
SOUND.EXE (date when patched: 14/7/1993, original: 1/4/1993)

I suspect the Eye of the Beholder Trilogy CD and other compilations already have the later version though.

EDIT: Oh, and the INSTALL.NFO says this:

;INSTALL.NFO created 8/3/1993
Eye of the Beholder III, Update
\EOB3 + DATA1.ARJ + DATA2.ARJ
5100000
5100000
1
EYE
0

 

[darkling]

The CD ISO I have matches your dates so I guess it's 1.2 too! http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?hnk8vxbhdwx2tc8 is my Aesop 32'd install of EOB3, for the cat with problems setting up A32. :D I accidentally left the ISO file in the directory when zipping it. Bonus megabytes!

This is kinda cool. It's almost fun wandering around being slaughtered by ghosts.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Thank you very much, darkling and Kersey!

I had a look, and realized that for the past 20 years I've been playing an unpatched version of EOB3. Your version is marked as v1.1 on the main menu, which is a step up from the v1.0 that I've been using up until now. I had been using the floppy disk version earlier, but then "upgraded" to the version included in the Forgotten Realms Archives, possibly even the RPG Archives that Interplay released 15 years ago. Good to know that they're outdated...

And I tested the AESOP32 version (on DOSBox 0.73)... LOADS faster. It pops four times when it starts, and then a couple of pops when the main menu loads up, but otherwise it's smooth sailing. The game runs just as fast as its prequels. Now to check if there are any gameplay changes, like if Sol's Searing Orb actually works this time.

 

[Wolfus]

I'll never play this (because if there is Amiga version, I play Amiga version) but it is nice. Well done!

 

[Kersey]

Thank you very much, darkling and Kersey!

I had a look, and realized that for the past 20 years I've been playing an unpatched version of EOB3. Your version is marked as v1.1 on the main menu, which is a step up from the v1.0 that I've been using up until now. I had been using the floppy disk version earlier, but then "upgraded" to the version included in the Forgotten Realms Archives, possibly even the RPG Archives that Interplay released 15 years ago. Good to know that they're outdated...

You're welcome! It says 1.1 on the main menu, I managed to miss that completely and for some reason I had the patch archive labeled as 1.2. Also thanks to you and darkling for confirming that the compilations indeed have the newer version. I still wonder what fixes it might include. Especially because the patch is huge for the time, 2.5 megabyte download in 1993(!).

And I tested the AESOP32 version (on DOSBox 0.73)... LOADS faster. It pops four times when it starts, and then a couple of pops when the main menu loads up, but otherwise it's smooth sailing. The game runs just as fast as its prequels. Now to check if there are any gameplay changes, like if Sol's Searing Orb actually works this time.

I'd be interested in any differences you may find. I'll probably never see them for myself since I didn't play the original version very far and while the new one is on my to-play list there's no telling when I'll get to it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I wrote an extensive FAQ/walkthrough of the EOB series 5 years ago, it's time for a new run through all 3 games to catch up to all the new information. At least I have a frame of reference for EOB3.

Quick playthrough revealed that Sol's Searing Orb still doesn't work (except in damaging your own party) and that there's an extra suit of non-magical chainmail in the first map.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Just something I spotted on the web today: Website Indie Retro News did a piece on the first two EOB games, focusing on the Amiga AGA versions. I noticed a part there which made me laugh:

You will notice a difference between [EOB] 1 and 2 as the engine for the second game was highly modified to allow outdoor areas, increased interaction with areas of interest and far better role playing aspects.

The "outdoor" area is just another indoor area with a sky coloured on the ceiling, and the "far better role playing aspects" are in no way improved over EOB1 (TALK, KILL, YES, NO, LEAVE). The fanboy is strong in this one, but the good news is that he keeps up to date on all things EOB-related, like the release of ASE. He also pointed out another obscure dungeon crawler, "Cardhalia", a 10-year old Czech game that is only now available in English. I'm gonna have a look at that.