The Eye of the Beholder Thread

[Baron Dupek]

My best bet would be back of the game box but it's not there. Maybe some gaming magazines, where devs/publishers send screenshots from pre-released games with content that won't get into retail product?
It was Westwood game after all, they had few cases like these.

 

[anvi]

These were my favorite games as a kid, I even loved the third one. But I don't enjoy them much anymore because of the lack of combat spells/abilities. It is great for a beginner to RPGs though.

 

[Jaesun]

I never finished the 3rd one. Something just really turned me off from it. Loved the first 2.

 

[marcuz]

My best bet would be back of the game box but it's not there. Maybe some gaming magazines, where devs/publishers send screenshots from pre-released games with content that won't get into retail product?
It was Westwood game after all, they had few cases like these.

Possibly, but I had only a SSI collection back then, on DOS... Regardless, I'm thinking it was on the Amiga demo, one that came on a magazine disk. I'll check around, thanks!

 

[Unkillable Cat]

There is tons of published stuff related to the EotB games that didn't end up in the final game. Screenshots, ads, plot elements, etc.

Also, for those wondering about this thread - this is a megathread cobbled together from several smaller EotB threads that have been created through the years. It was surreal reading through it and seeing old posts of mine popping up that stated the same stuff over and over, making me look like a demented parrot or a half-witted shill at times.

 

[anvi]

You all should play the third game too. EOTB2 is still the best but the third one isn't far off. It has a couple of weak gameplay moments but they don't last long, and the rest of the game is classic EOTB. Also it has a few new spells like Wall of Force and one of the characters can shapeshift into a tiger thing that attacks with his claws. The only reason the game wasn't that popular is because it is the most badly programmed game in history. It had bugs at release which wasn't very common back then, although they are fixed now. But the problem with the programming is that even on a modern PC that is a million times faster than what the game was designed for, it still takes several seconds to load a savegame. And in the 90s that could be a long time, even on top end PC's. They obviously messed something up badly because the tech isn't much different to eotb2 yet that game can load in 1 second, even on my phone.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

You all should play the third game too. EOTB2 is still the best but the third one isn't far off. It has a couple of weak gameplay moments but they don't last long, and the rest of the game is classic EOTB. Also it has a few new spells like Wall of Force and one of the characters can shapeshift into a tiger thing that attacks with his claws. The only reason the game wasn't that popular is because it is the most badly programmed game in history. It had bugs at release which wasn't very common back then, although they are fixed now. But the problem with the programming is that even on a modern PC that is a million times faster than what the game was designed for, it still takes several seconds to load a savegame. And in the 90s that could be a long time, even on top end PC's. They obviously messed something up badly because the tech isn't much different to eotb2 yet that game can load in 1 second, even on my phone.

*sighs*

Once again, from the top:

# EoTB 3's problem was that the AESOP engine is 16-bit. That's the bottleneck. Thanks to people involved with the DOSBox project a patch exists with a 32-bit AESOP engine, eliminiating that bottleneck and making the game play at normal EotB-speeds.

# The Wall of Force spell was first introduced in EotB 2.

# The were-tiger character is a neat touch but those shapeshifting aspects are useless as almost every other monster in EotB 3 requires magical weapons to be hit, and mere claws aren't gonna cut it.

# What killed the game isn't bad programming, it's bad game design. It's one of the most badly designed games in history. I could go on forever on about this, but suffice to say I recommend you start reading this thread from the start, or at least go back to July 2009. Despite everything you'll read from me, I can still add plenty more.

 

[anvi]

I don't need to read anything. The patch sounds nice, but it doesn't help people who played the game at release and before that came along. Also the game itself is fine, it is hardly any different to the previous games. You seem like a typical knowitall nerd.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Wasn't there the case with EotB3 where starting from 1lvl was huge pain (read: almost impossible to play) while importing saves from EotB2 make game cakewalk? Maybe importing from Eotb1 saves to Eotb3 solve it (dumb guess I know)?
Anyway - call me cashual but no map support in Eotb3 is nope in my book. Even mapping system from Wiz7 can change my mind.

 

[anvi]

Maps would be nice but the game worlds are quite small so navigating isn't very hard anyway. At least in 2 and 3.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Wasn't there the case with EotB3 where starting from 1lvl was huge pain (read: almost impossible to play) while importing saves from EotB2 make game cakewalk? Maybe importing from Eotb1 saves to Eotb3 solve it (dumb guess I know)?

Starting a new party in EotB 3 gives you a party at Lvl 11. A party imported from EotB 2 will be between Lvl 11-13 so that's not the issue, it's all the sweet gear you may be packing from the previous games that will make a difference. Having +4 or even +5 weapons instead of the default +1 and the occasional +2 weapon is a godsend.

I don't need to read anything. The patch sounds nice, but it doesn't help people who played the game at release and before that came along. Also the game itself is fine, it is hardly any different to the previous games. You seem like a typical knowitall nerd.

Maps would be nice but the game worlds are quite small so navigating isn't very hard anyway. At least in 2 and 3.

Your problem is that you're full of crap. I'm telling you exactly what's wrong with the game, while you keep saying that it's "fine" or make statements about the game that don't make much sense.

In regards to the maps for example, gif images of them were made available really quickly after the game's release, because people really needed them. The second forest level with all the bramblethorn paths, for example, did nothing but confuse people, and there are tons of illusionary walls in the game, not to mention the hardest dungeon in the game being at the start of the game. EotB3 has a really rough beginning.

Just because you didn't have a problem navigating, doesn't mean that anybody else didn't have a problem.

 

[anvi]

I'm not full of crap, it is a fun game. And I completed all of the EOTB games without any sort of map. There was no internet when I first completed them, and I never make my own maps. The thorn bushes is annoying but it is 10 minutes and then you never see it again for the rest of the entire game. And they all have fake walls, maps don't help that, it sounds like what you want is a walkthrough.

 

[Elwro]

One thing I hadn't enjoyed in EotB3 was how rarely you levelled. I also seem to remember more frequent respawning than in the previous games...

 

[bussinrounds]

What kind of d&d cRPG doesn't have the monsters names ? That's fucking decline. Even the beat em' up arcade game Shadow over Mystara had them. Why even use the license ?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I'm not full of crap, it is a fun game. And I completed all of the EOTB games without any sort of map. There was no internet when I first completed them, and I never make my own maps. The thorn bushes is annoying but it is 10 minutes and then you never see it again for the rest of the entire game. And they all have fake walls, maps don't help that, it sounds like what you want is a walkthrough.

Me too. I know all three games by heart and I don't need any maps to play them. But I also know that not everyone can replicate that, and for many years afterwards I wanted a proper walkthrough for all three games, so eventually I wrote one myself. It remains unpublished as I haven't done all the research needed yet ( ) but it contains lots of stuff others don't seem to know about. Case in point:

One thing I hadn't enjoyed in EotB3 was how rarely you levelled. I also seem to remember more frequent respawning than in the previous games...

EotB 1 and 2's primary method of respawning monsters is based off of the number of 'steps' you take, so if you stand still no new monsters will respawn. EotB 3 uses a mixture of various respawning methods but the most common one is time-based (something the other two never did) meaning that standing around isn't gonna keep you out of trouble. EotB 3 even has floors that start out devoid of monsters, but stick around for just a minute and you're in deep.

As for the leveling frequency - EotB 1 has a monster with an artificially jacked-up XP reward so gaining levels there is a cakewalk. EotB 2 has a place where monsters with large XP rewards can literally be spawned in with the flip of a lever, and farming that location for as little as 30 minutes will have you close to the game's level cap. EotB 3 doesn't have either of those and has a large maximum level cap on top (for those races/classes that can reach it). I had to sit and grind for an hour once just before completing the game, just to be able to see one character reach Lvl 19. That long climb to the level cap is actually one of a few things EotB 3 gets right.

It doesn't help that the only character that really benefits from getting above Lvl 15 is the Mage, which is also the class with the highest XP requirements.

 

[Father Foreskin]

Playing eob1, got the automapper running because i cant be arsed to do this for real for real. The only complaint i have is that the movement scheme sucks boiled cock. Do i need a thief? I have fighter-paladin-cleric-mage.

 

[anvi]

Use autohotkey to remap the numpad to wasd or something.

 

[aweigh]

is there a .zip/.rar of an All-in-One DOSbox package with an integrated UI, (i think people refer to what I'm asking for as a "front-end"), that I can just download, unzip, click on the "front-end" executable and then click on an "Load Game" equivalent option and navigate to my downloaded DOS game file(s) and have the game start up automatically and ready to work?

Preferably I want the only configuration needed to be done is the keyboard keys re-mapping.

Does something like this exist for Dosbox distros?

I want to get into the Krynn games (goldbox) and also get my feet wet with real-time blobbers, but I'm too lazy to configure anything beyond keyboard controls.

EDIT: and yes, I use AutoHotkey extensively because I play a lot of japanese Wizardry-clones and most japanese Windows PC games usually don't allow keyboard key re-mapping, especially old ones like the Wizardry Empire games for japanese Windows.

So what I'm saying is that I'm willing to "give up" the option of control config as I can use AutoHotkey; but I still want ability to just click on a nice UI and navigate to dos game file and boot it without any further configuration.

 

[anvi]

I think games from GoG work just like a windows game, more or less. It installs like a modern game, then it usually runs a settings app. Then you get an icon for your start menu or desktop, and clicking that runs the game automatically for you, using dosbox.

But really though, dosbox is really easy to use if you just start doing it yourself. I have used it for nearly 20 years or something and I don't use any complex commands. I just put all my dos games in a folder and then you can make a unique dosbox shortcut that runs any game with its own unique settings. And once you set it up, it is like that forever.

Also for EOTB I just control it with the cursor keys, forward back and stepping left and right. To turn I just click on the arrows with my mouse. You gotta use the mouse to attack and use the inventory so I am used to playing it like that. But I am pretty sure the keypad contains all the directions so if you can remap that with autohotkey or something, that should work fine.

My 2c anyway.

 

[aweigh]

i don't want individual shortcuts cluttering my desktop, and i don't like gog-dos games. they don't allow any configuration and they usually run in bad aspect ratios and the like, or don't allow full-screen.

i want a dosbox front end that is like an emulator, which i double click and then click on load game and point it to the game; preferably with specific game cycle settings included, and ability to fullscreen and other stuff that emulators allow.

i googled a bit and D-Fend seems to be popular. maybe there's a torrent already made with packages of dos games pre-configured, along with the dosbox emulator and a modern Front-end. must google some more.

I want to be able to do stuff like use filters as well. Basically I want an emulator with all the amenities.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I haven't tried it myself, but LaunchBox might be what you're looking for.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I use D-Fend. Launchbox seems to be too fruity for my taste, but if you want more systems in one place I guess it could be decent, haven't tried it.

And what do you mean GOG DOS games don't allow configuration? If they're using DOSBox (I assume all are?) then just edit the cfg file. Their config program is just stupid, don't use that. But yeah, they're usually set up in some retarded way (never seen any not allowing full-screen, probably you're the retarded one there) like way too low cycles making the game run like shit, but that can be changed.

If I have GOG games I just put them in D-Fend anyway, and set them up as I want there. Don't trust hipster pollacks.

 

[Comte]

Doesn't scummvm run the EOTB games?

 

[anvi]

It runs lands of lore, not sure about EOTB. Also GoG does let you configure the games, it lets you do anything you can do with dosbox because that is all it uses, they just put a pretty front end. Also you don't have to clutter your desktop, you can arrange them well if you aren't a windows noob.

 

[Eggs is eggs]

I always thought the D&D based games had poor levelling and progression because the gameplay style of a p&p game didn't lend itself well to the grinding and powerlevelling that you can do in a PC game.