The Eye of the Beholder Thread

[Taghor]

Our journey has begun and it has started almost as i remembered it. I can hardly express how much i enjoy delving into my childhood again...

I see a feelable difference in the difficulty - in the catacombs i already have to make extensive use of offensive and defensive spells. The combination of clerics paralyzing and tons of skeleton warriors coming at once make it much less a cakewalk than most of part I was. I welcome that a lot.

Regarding the party, after Insal's small fraud (great roleplaying stuff, btw!) i am glad to add Amber to my party. She may not be the strongest pick but she's part of the story and it just feels right to have a thief in the party. I rejoice to see that she not only has improved identify but also can remove curses - i spell i otherwise would not yet have access to. Same goes for burning hands - very useful as i found out. Alternatively, she could also make for a good marks(wo)man from the backrow - so i think that her versatility is a worthy addition to our endeavour. She already warned me a few times of secret passages and also picked some locks. Thus, definitely no regrets here...

I freed a dwarf but had no choice to let him join. He just ran away from the terrors down here in the cellars of the temple. I assume that this was Shorn. The party was fresh and Daphne, our cleric is a 9 level one. Maybe the game thinks that we are good as is - and so do i. He most likely would have to give way to Calandra anyway who i gladly freed of her shackles. She'll take a bow now and give more staying power in combat in case of emergency.

Found Elf bones and this most likely is San Raal. Leave him be for the time being but who knows what the future may bring... I generally like going with six for versatility as well as inventory space and accept that this slows down leveling. There are many enemy respawns and one can make up for the farther spread of XP.

Great game and i really appreciate the casual events that breath more life into the game. Really an improvement ...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The first time I played EotB2 (in EGA-mode!) I had SUCH troubles with the skeleton horde coming out of that room. I didn't know back then that it was my moving about the place that was triggering further spawns - and my party was woefully underpowered for that encounter.

The trick, then, is to move as little as possible during that section - that requires facetanking a couple of mobs, and against skeletons with 90% magic resistance that can get hectic.

EotB2 in EGA-mode BTW is a LOT slower. I recall it taking 30 seconds to move between floors. Emulators may cut that time down a bit, but I played it on original hardware back in the day - I even played through all of EotB1 in EGA-mode. (EotB1 in CGA-mode is a trip.)

 

[Semiurge]

Our journey has begun and it has started almost as i remembered it. I can hardly express how much i enjoy delving into my childhood again...

I see a feelable difference in the difficulty - in the catacombs i already have to make extensive use of offensive and defensive spells. The combination of clerics paralyzing and tons of skeleton warriors coming at once make it much less a cakewalk than most of part I was. I welcome that a lot.

Regarding the party, after Insal's small fraud (great roleplaying stuff, btw!) i am glad to add Amber to my party. She may not be the strongest pick but she's part of the story and it just feels right to have a thief in the party. I rejoice to see that she not only has improved identify but also can remove curses - i spell i otherwise would not yet have access to. Same goes for burning hands - very useful as i found out. Alternatively, she could also make for a good marks(wo)man from the backrow - so i think that her versatility is a worthy addition to our endeavour. She already warned me a few times of secret passages and also picked some locks. Thus, definitely no regrets here...

I freed a dwarf but had no choice to let him join. He just ran away from the terrors down here in the cellars of the temple. I assume that this was Shorn. The party was fresh and Daphne, our cleric is a 9 level one. Maybe the game thinks that we are good as is - and so do i. He most likely would have to give way to Calandra anyway who i gladly freed of her shackles. She'll take a bow now and give more staying power in combat in case of emergency.

Found Elf bones and this most likely is San Raal. Leave him be for the time being but who knows what the future may bring... I generally like going with six for versatility as well as inventory space and accept that this slows down leveling. There are many enemy respawns and one can make up for the farther spread of XP.

Great game and i really appreciate the casual events that breath more life into the game. Really an improvement ...

Having a dwarf in the party is, as I recall, necessary so that your party can translate the wall writings in the dwarven levels. Same could apply to San-Raal once you enter the drow levels, but I don't remember if that's the case. It was +20 years ago that I completed the game last.

 

[Taghor]

Our journey has begun and it has started almost as i remembered it. I can hardly express how much i enjoy delving into my childhood again...

I see a feelable difference in the difficulty - in the catacombs i already have to make extensive use of offensive and defensive spells. The combination of clerics paralyzing and tons of skeleton warriors coming at once make it much less a cakewalk than most of part I was. I welcome that a lot.

Regarding the party, after Insal's small fraud (great roleplaying stuff, btw!) i am glad to add Amber to my party. She may not be the strongest pick but she's part of the story and it just feels right to have a thief in the party. I rejoice to see that she not only has improved identify but also can remove curses - i spell i otherwise would not yet have access to. Same goes for burning hands - very useful as i found out. Alternatively, she could also make for a good marks(wo)man from the backrow - so i think that her versatility is a worthy addition to our endeavour. She already warned me a few times of secret passages and also picked some locks. Thus, definitely no regrets here...

I freed a dwarf but had no choice to let him join. He just ran away from the terrors down here in the cellars of the temple. I assume that this was Shorn. The party was fresh and Daphne, our cleric is a 9 level one. Maybe the game thinks that we are good as is - and so do i. He most likely would have to give way to Calandra anyway who i gladly freed of her shackles. She'll take a bow now and give more staying power in combat in case of emergency.

Found Elf bones and this most likely is San Raal. Leave him be for the time being but who knows what the future may bring... I generally like going with six for versatility as well as inventory space and accept that this slows down leveling. There are many enemy respawns and one can make up for the farther spread of XP.

Great game and i really appreciate the casual events that breath more life into the game. Really an improvement ...

Having a dwarf in the party is, as I recall, necessary so that your party can translate the wall writings in the dwarven levels. Same could apply to San-Raal once you enter the drow levels, but I don't remember if that's the case. It was +20 years ago that I completed the game last.

Thank you for the kind advice! However, i started into EotB II (with my EotB I party). The writings you are speaking of were in the first part of the saga. In EotB II we are exploring a sinister mystery in a human cleric temple and have not yet found anything that my party could not read.

The game is great! Lots of puzzles and the difficulty level is a serious step up (Beholders, anyone?!). Except of the death traps the game resembles a true improvement over part I! I am having a blast! I can honestly recommend a new playthrough, especially after such a long hiatus.

 

[Semiurge]

Our journey has begun and it has started almost as i remembered it. I can hardly express how much i enjoy delving into my childhood again...

I see a feelable difference in the difficulty - in the catacombs i already have to make extensive use of offensive and defensive spells. The combination of clerics paralyzing and tons of skeleton warriors coming at once make it much less a cakewalk than most of part I was. I welcome that a lot.

Regarding the party, after Insal's small fraud (great roleplaying stuff, btw!) i am glad to add Amber to my party. She may not be the strongest pick but she's part of the story and it just feels right to have a thief in the party. I rejoice to see that she not only has improved identify but also can remove curses - i spell i otherwise would not yet have access to. Same goes for burning hands - very useful as i found out. Alternatively, she could also make for a good marks(wo)man from the backrow - so i think that her versatility is a worthy addition to our endeavour. She already warned me a few times of secret passages and also picked some locks. Thus, definitely no regrets here...

I freed a dwarf but had no choice to let him join. He just ran away from the terrors down here in the cellars of the temple. I assume that this was Shorn. The party was fresh and Daphne, our cleric is a 9 level one. Maybe the game thinks that we are good as is - and so do i. He most likely would have to give way to Calandra anyway who i gladly freed of her shackles. She'll take a bow now and give more staying power in combat in case of emergency.

Found Elf bones and this most likely is San Raal. Leave him be for the time being but who knows what the future may bring... I generally like going with six for versatility as well as inventory space and accept that this slows down leveling. There are many enemy respawns and one can make up for the farther spread of XP.

Great game and i really appreciate the casual events that breath more life into the game. Really an improvement ...

Having a dwarf in the party is, as I recall, necessary so that your party can translate the wall writings in the dwarven levels. Same could apply to San-Raal once you enter the drow levels, but I don't remember if that's the case. It was +20 years ago that I completed the game last.

Thank you for the kind advice! However, i started into EotB II (with my EotB I party). The writings you are speaking of were in the first part of the saga. In EotB II we are exploring a sinister mystery in a human cleric temple and have not yet found anything that my party could not read.

The game is great! Lots of puzzles and the difficulty level is a serious step up (Beholders, anyone?!). Except of the death traps the game resembles a true improvement over part I! I am having a blast! I can honestly recommend a new playthrough, especially after such a long hiatus.

Oh yeah, San-Raal is in EoB 2.

What I remember from that is the tedious task of breaking in a fresh party by grinding the respawning enemies, mostly jail guards and those nasty skeletal warriors. Is there actually a way out of those areas where your party can't rest? I've only ever reached the maze-like dungeon with treasures, gelatinous cubes and gargoyles margoyles. Is resting the only way the magic casters can rejuvenate?

No, I never bothered to look at the manuals.

 

[Taghor]

The first time I played EotB2 (in EGA-mode!) I had SUCH troubles with the skeleton horde coming out of that room. I didn't know back then that it was my moving about the place that was triggering further spawns - and my party was woefully underpowered for that encounter.

The trick, then, is to move as little as possible during that section - that requires facetanking a couple of mobs, and against skeletons with 90% magic resistance that can get hectic.

EotB2 in EGA-mode BTW is a LOT slower. I recall it taking 30 seconds to move between floors. Emulators may cut that time down a bit, but I played it on original hardware back in the day - I even played through all of EotB1 in EGA-mode. (EotB1 in CGA-mode is a trip.)

Yes, i remember that, too. Movement was very slow so the nowadays swordplay-dance was very hard to pull off. I just looked up the EGA mode - that looks so terrible - it really speaks for the game that it made people go through this graphical mess...
I had the luck of playing on Amiga. It looked very good and the sound was worlds ahead of a PC could produce back then.

Oh yeah, San-Raal is in EoB 2.

What I remember from that is the tedious task of breaking in a fresh party by grinding the respawning enemies, mostly jail guards and those undead warriors. Is there actually a way out of those areas where your party can't rest? I've only ever reached the maze-like dungeon with treasures, gelatenous cubes and gargoyles. Is resting the only way the magic casters can rejuvenate?

No, I never bothered to look at the manuals.

When starting with a new party, the game is difficult from the beginning. And grinding surely is a thing until THACO values of your frontliners do regularily score hits. EotB I weapons are plain superior to most of the stuff you can get in the early stages of EotB II. Getting comparable stuff requires quite some time into the game.

To get out of the catacombs you can use a portal. You'll find a stone gem and also a portal in level 3. Taking scrolls and potions with you is a good tactic - so saving them for this area of the game is a good idea. You'll get more of that later on. This and moving away from enemies / around corners until attack cooldown wore off is a very effective tactic and crucial in levels 3 and 4 (catacombs). Just make sure to not accidently fall down a pit or activate a pressure plate prematurely.

Back in the day, i also felt stressed down there. Being afraid of the cubes eating your armor/weapons or the damage landed by the heavy punches of the gargoyles always felt just so dangerous... but this also made a big deal of the excitement one had. Great dramaturgy! And it gets better even - although resting remains an option in the silver tower levels i just have finished. There was just one place it did not work but walking back and away from the spot did work.

 

[Taghor]

BTW, i have two questions - sorry for double-posting and i hope that doing so does not violate the forum rules.

1. Which DnD ruleset does fit the EotB games best? I often read that this would be a toned down 2nd ed. DnD. The games say it's ADnD and i'd like to fantasize a bit about how it would be to replay this as a pen and paper RPG on the tabletop. I own an ancient compendium of DnD rules but it's so deep and full of rules (400+ pages) that the EotB feel could hardly be reproduced with all classes being spellcasters and a huge amount of additional combat rules and other stuff for all instances this book contains. With the RPG aspect in the foreground i think playing with the simplified EotB rule set could be fun. Is there any edition / set that can be seen as an equivalent?
One could also do real dungeons crawls like the good old Hero quest did offer (which did not have any character progression outside of looting and buying equipment).

2. What have i got to do to become able upvoting other's posts? I would like to but cannot find any option for that.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

1. ADnD 2nd edition. And Westwood only used the parts they liked/were contractually obligated to use.

2. I don't remember the details, but I think you need to have been a registered user for a certain amount of time. Was it a month to get rating-privileges?

 

[Semiurge]

2. What have i got to do to become able upvoting other's posts? I would like to but cannot find any option for that.

Your account is still too low a level for this. You need to grind for a year, or donate some gold if you feel like taking the beginner's shortcut. After either, you will get access to more than just reaction buttons - the dungeons for experienced adventurers. What awaits there depends on your alignment. It could be wondrous delights, unimaginable horrors, or both.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Just kick the rats and you'll be fine.

 

[Taghor]

1. ADnD 2nd edition. And Westwood only used the parts they liked/were contractually obligated to use.

2. I don't remember the details, but I think you need to have been a registered user for a certain amount of time. Was it a month to get rating-privileges?

Ah, thank you! So customisation is the key, just as Westwood did. They did a good job at it except for the fact that their manuals don't match the implementation of some modifiers. I am especially thinking of the race bonuses for halflings, gnomes and elves (dwarves i don't know) to make up for their level limitations. This hampers the roleplaying aspect since playing anything else than humans is less advantageous.

Thanks for the heads up, too - so patience will be my guide...

2. What have i got to do to become able upvoting other's posts? I would like to but cannot find any option for that.

Your account is still too low a level for this. You need to grind for a year, or donate some gold if you feel like taking the beginner's shortcut. After either, you will get access to more than just reaction buttons - the dungeons for experienced adventurers. What awaits there depends on your alignment. It could be wondrous delights, unimaginable horrors, or both.

Oh, i see. I thus shall meditate on this for a while to let wisdom reach our souls and inner selves. Since our coffers keep being plundered by the disdainable tax collectors who act like highwaymen in times of war, only time may be our ally. Until enlightnment we will try to restrict our petty thoughts to the unavoidable. Once upon a day we shall see - and show to the world - what the gods have planted within our hearts.

Just kick the rats and you'll be fine.

Yes, dear sir! Blades unsheathed and boots polished at once!

 

[Taghor]

Finally - Dran Draggore is no more! His regency of terror and a sinister plot to overthrow the lawful city and cozy meadows around his former temple have been foiled by the courageous and steady efforts of Eragon, Karamir, Daphne, Zefira, Amber and Tanglor. We take a breath to recover from our undertaking to fend of evil before our journey will continue.
Our party will once again divide since Amber wants to return to the service of Master Khelben while Tanglor has some individual aims regarding his home clan. We, the rest of the party - will take a stroll through the region and then settle in a peaceful town to squander some of the wealth we gathered throughout our advantures for a while.
Speaking of - we feel somewhat overburdened by the treasures that had been hoarded by the forces of evil we yet had to overcome.
Let's see what our fortunes will go like in future days. Maybe we will spend a visit to Calandra first who we had helped to get out of the temple by smashing the entrance windows after she heard her sister desperately searching for her.
In the long run the future will certainly have more adventures for us to go through...


From an (aftermath) outgame perspective EotB II was quite an enjoyable game and i had a great time - not only for reasons of nostalgia.
Comparing it to part I i would say that it is superior regarding many RPG aspects (special encounters and events) while gamewise i really did not like the death traps (i think that this potentially destroys immerson as it nullifies the effort and fun one had before not having the right save game at hand to get out of it).
The story arc was well done although i liked the specific mood of the different stages of dungeon levels in part I more (sewers, dwarven halls, drow mazes, Thri'Kreen hive and subterrean palace). In EotB only the first two chapters capitalized on such diversity.
The loot is numerous and very good when it comes to armor pieces and new mage spells but much of the weapons and rings of part I remained superior. This reduced the overall difficulty level by quite a margin i suppose. Having gathered almost everything of value, my party now is burdened like a bunch of donkeys.
I entered with about 350k XP and left with some 1.6 million XP, having maxed the classes of the single class main party. XP grinding at a speciifc spot overall did cost me somewhat less than two hours for reaching maxed levels (13) within the game.

For a second run of EotB II i would rather create a new party and maybe even multiclass some chars. It would be considerable to do it with just four chars for faster progress and a higher challenge. The joy of rewards (magical loot) will be much higher if they actually have the impact of making you better and filling gaps / resolve makeshift solutions.

Some sidenotes in the spoiler:

Spoiler

- make careful but extensive use of the different slave slots to not ruin your run by a death trap - there are several of them to get stuck eternally!
- some magic items that have a + bonus seem to not work properly. I remember a ring of protection, a plate mail and maybe one or two other items the outlined bonus did not have functionality for. So check up the AC when swapping your equipment around!
- Do not feed Insal's letter into any spots that require you to spend some item. By doing so you you'll withhold yourself a nice RPG encounter in the late game!
- The sceptre of kingly might - if you took it over from EotB I will turn into a regular mace when transferring the party to EotB III. This is not only sad but it simply makes no sense to take it with you.
- The magic wands instead seem to work throughout all parts axcept for the one that bans magic
- Arrows +1 you find in EotB II will be turned into regular arrows when transferring the party to EotB III (meh!).
- The nice icons of special weapons and other items from EotB I and II will turn into regular icons - although they do not lose therir bonuses - when transferring the party to EotB III! That's very sad... [/spoiiler]

pjs
Thanks for the heads up! I actually have read the whole thread before registering here. Your notes are pretty valuable information to remind for progressing further!

I only hope to not run into the dreaded death traps of which there are a few in EotB II. IIRC, I think that was the reason for me as a teen to drop the game i had payed so much money for. Nowadays, i will try again and look forward to another fantastic (and pretty nostalgic) experience... EotB I was a hell of a ride and goosebumps with a happy smile all time (umm, except one critical situation...) long.

I chose the magic bracers in EotB I just because i seem to memorise that there a some magic shortswords to be found. Ring of Wizardry is nice but now i rather have a lack of fingers to fit the rings my party has gathered already. But 2 x +2 of protection simply was too good to leave behind...

Maybe i will do 2 runs in EotB II one of which will be with the current party. But afterwards i will also try for a challenge by choosing several multi-class chars with the meager starting equipment for a second run. There is some place to farm tons of XP to catch up.

Someone should add some Taghor avatars for the EoB gallery, such as:

This would indeed be great! The makeshift solution of Tanglor (also a nice NPC btw) does not fit my nick and Taghor is a very iconic NPC of the EotB series - being the first one to recruit at all he has a special place in my EotB heart...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Some sidenotes in the spoiler:

Spoiler

- make careful but extensive use of the different save slots to not ruin your run by a death trap - there are several of them to get stuck eternally!
- some magic items that have a + bonus seem to not work properly. I remember a ring of protection, a plate mail and maybe one or two other items the outlined bonus did not have functionality for. So check up the AC when swapping your equipment around!
- Do not feed Insal's letter into any spots that require you to spend some item. By doing so you you'll withhold yourself a nice RPG encounter in the late game!
- The sceptre of kingly might - if you took it over from EotB I will turn into a regular mace when transferring the party to EotB III. This is not only sad but it simply makes no sense to take it with you.
- The magic wands instead seem to work throughout all parts except for the one that bans magic
- Arrows +1 you find in EotB II will be turned into regular arrows when transferring the party to EotB III (meh!).
- The nice icons of special weapons and other items from EotB I and II will turn into regular icons - although they do not lose therir bonuses - when transferring the party to EotB III! That's very sad...

The reason all items lose their special appearance between EotB2 and EotB3 is because Westwood Studios was bought by Virgin Interactive Entertainment during the early development of EotB3, so all of Westwood's assets had to be removed. If you look at the character portraits in EotB3, you'll notice that all the ones added in EotB1 or EotB2 have been slightly altered in some way. (Westwood Studios still get credited in the EotB3 outro.)

It's not just the arrows - it's also every bow, every pair of boots and every helmet.

Regarding Insal's note - what exactly are you referring to?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

It is funny Dreamforge got to use a lot of EOB 3 assets. Damn shame it didn't use a lot of the other EOB series mobs.

Anyway. Wasn't there a site that listed the three EOB games and what transferred items would turn into if transferred to each game? If not, there damn well should be.

Transfer info.
https://goldbox.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_the_Beholder_Transfer_Guide
Some gog stuff:

Exact levels. Fun part is that you can transfer even completely new level 1 party to Eob2. It is done by just copying savegame -file to eob2 directory, so party transfer can be done at any time during Eob1. There is a challenge: can you beat Eob2 with level 1 starting party? Never tried that myself.

That's nice idea. I'm going to try that. You don't get a level 1 party in EOB, though. Single class characters start at level 3 in EOB.

EDIT: So far I've made it past the skeleton warriors and am in the area, where you cannot rest. My party is level 6 now. Funny thing: When I recruited Calandra, she was twice as experienced as all of my characters together. But she still needed rescuing...

I think the next critical moment will be the wall of pain.

I hope that hold person works on medusas as well, because my mage probably won't be experienced enough to cast 4 hold monster spells and I did't feel like resurrecting Saan-Raal.

Well, maybe ASE you could edit your party to be 1st level (copy that) and teansfer them to each EOB 2 & 3. I mean if you want some challenge. I also didn't create fresh parties in either gane so I forget starting levels. It wouldn't takevlong to find out though.

Sadly no ASE for Dungeon Hack. Damn shame there wasn't a party mode for Dungeon hack and deeper levels but it often repeats shit anyway.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Dunno if such a site existed, but I have the info from my own notes. I'd say it's 99% accurate, as there may be a few outliers I haven't had the chance to check.

The following items are known NOT to transfer over to EOB2:

# Keys.
# Stone Portal Keys.
# The Wand of Silvias.
# Mage Scrolls of Flame Arrow and Stoneskin.
# Kenku Eggs.
# Luckstone Medallions.
# Red/blue gems.
# Orbs of Power.
# Any scrolls with text on them.
# Bones of NPCs.
# The Dwarven Healing Potion.
# The +4 Adamantite Darts from Level 9, only obtainable by cheating.

In addition, the following effects happen:

# The Commission and Letter of Marque, if present in any character's inventory, will be replaced by Khelben's Coin. If the Commission is missing, the Coin will be placed in an empty inventory slot if there's one available. If all the inventory slots are full, Khelben's Coin will be lying on the ground in front of the party.
# All wands will become unidentified, even if they were identified in EOB1.
# Most wands will receive additional charges. This can be anything from 3-5 extra charges. Wands of Lightning, however, seem to lose charges.
# All weapons and armour will be identified, but they will lose their special names. The "Drow Cleaver" axe, for example, will just be called a +3 Axe.
# All cursed items will have the word "Cursed" in their name, though they will not stick to your party members like other cursed items do.

The items that are known NOT to transfer into EOB3 are:

# All plot-vital items, such as the Four Horns, the Starfire sceptre and the Mantis Idol.
# Any and all coins, including Khelben's Coin.
# Any and all keys and Stone Portal items.
# The Polished/Medusa Shields.
# The rusty dagger.
# Magic Dust.
# The wand of Dispel Magic.
# Crimson Rings.
# Any and all bones.
# Any scrolls and parchments that aren't Mage or Cleric spells.
# Amulets of Life and Amulets of Death.
# Fire Spheres.

The following items are known to change when transferred:

# All boots, helmets and arrows with magical abilities lose them.
# The Sceptre Of Kingly Might from EOB1 is changed into a Mace.
# All bows will lose whatever magical abilities they had and will be called Long Bows.
# Iron Rations become Rations as Iron Rations don't exist in EOB3.
# All Potions of Extra Healing become Potions of Healing.
# The Dragon Skin Armour +4 will simply become a Leather Armour +4.
# Cursed items from EOB1/EOB2 do not need to have Remove Curse cast upon them to be removed.
# Lock Picks undergo a name change and are now called Thieves' Tools.
# Jhonas's Cloak (which was red) becomes a blue Cloak Of Protection.
# Green-gemmed Rings Of Sustenance become blue-gemmed Rings Of Sustenance.
# The Crystal Hammer +2 becomes a thrown weapon in EOB3.
# The red-gemmed Ring of Wizardry from EOB1 becomes green-gemmed and now only doubles the amount of 5th-Level Mage spells a Mage can memorize.
# All weapons and armour use the "default" graphics for the item.
# All items will be identified properly, including wands.
# Wands that were known as "Wands of Frost" are now called "Wands of 'Cone of Cold'".

 

[Taghor]

Unkillable Cat

Spoiler

You are supposed to meet Insal a second time in the crimson tower. After a short consversation he'll pass another coin to you with which you can open a door. This special key however isn't necessary as you can access the area from the other side though.
I had spent his note by feeding it into one of the six mouths you have to satisfy in the Azure tower. With the item 'out of the game' the game itself apparently assumed that i had not freed him from his captivity in the catacombs at all.

The transfer list is excellently helpful but not fully correct / complete:
- The adamantite darts from level 8 (yes, 8 - i had it wrong in one of my previous posts, too) in EotB I do actually give a +5 bonus and they do indeed transfer over to EotB II and even to EotB III later, keeping their bonus. There their icon turns into regular dart in EotB III, however.
- The rocks +1 and +2 from EotB I keep their magical abilities in EotB II but lose them in EotB III.

KeighnMcDeath
I can confirm the party transfers do indeed work with whatever save you have available (at least on steam version you have a launcher where you can easily import progress from the previous entry of the series).
From EotB I it is necessary because AFAIK the game does not make any final save of the party anyway. After beating Xanathar you get thrown out of the game abruptly. You can create a party and immediately transfer it to eEotB II if you really want to.
For EotB II to EotB i had tested a premature transfer out of curiosity before finishing the game. You however do get a final.sav after beating Dran - the function does work as intended.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Re: Insal. Interesting. I had not considered that. I'll have to test that myself.

The transfer list is excellently helpful but not fully correct / complete:
- The adamantite darts from level 8 (yes, 8 - i had it wrong in one of my previous posts, too) in EotB I do actually give a +5 bonus and they do indeed transfer over to EotB II and even to EotB III later, keeping their bonus. There their icon turns into regular dart in EotB III, however.

Just to eliminate confusion, there are two sets of adamantite darts at work here: The +5 Adamantite Darts that are the reward for completing the Special Quest on the 8th floor (and transfer normally into EotB2, at least) and then the +4 Adamantite Darts that are thrown at you as part of a trap on the 9th floor. Normally you can't get them as they fly into the walls, but you can retrieve them if you have a noclip-cheat enabled. It's this latter set of darts that won't transfer into EotB2, as you're not meant to have them to begin with.

- The rocks +1 and +2 from EotB I keep their magical abilities in EotB II but lose them in EotB III.

This I had not checked. I also had not checked on the Igneous Rock from the 1st floor, so that's more testing for me to do.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Damn nice info. Still, my spreadsheet mind calls to make one.

So, there never was a fix for the PC Xanathar defeat. Fuck! Glad I finished this first on the amiga along with EOB2. It wasn't until later I got them on pc (several copies because of those game packs sold). I was so WTF upon pc finish of EOB. I thought the game bugged out or my computer was fucking up. To top that off, I hadn't saved in a while. I was waaaay back on the last dwarven level. I started to save more often after that.

 

[Taghor]

Just to eliminate confusion, there are two sets of adamantite darts at work here: The +5 Adamantite Darts that are the reward for completing the Special Quest on the 8th floor (and transfer normally into EotB2, at least) and then the +4 Adamantite Darts that are thrown at you as part of a trap on the 9th floor. Normally you can't get them as they fly into the walls, but you can retrieve them if you have a noclip-cheat enabled. It's this latter set of darts that won't transfer into EotB2, as you're not meant to have them to begin with.

Sorry, i fell victim to my own confusion. Now i know which darts you mean. I had gotten two of them in level 9 without any cheats by just clicking on the walls in the northeast IIRC. Clicked like crazy on all walls in the trap room after that surprise but couldn't get any more.

A moment ago i just double-checked by transferring my party over from part I to part II again and yes - i can confirm an error message at the transition to EotB II and the darts being gone (leaving them behind during my run i had none such message before). A bit estranging but apparently the item # isn't present in EotB II. But that's no loss if one had solved the special quest of level 8... 10x +5 is more than enough. I wonder if i even threw darts 10 times in EotB II at all.

As a side note, the magic boots and helmets of EotB II also do not work in the game and get transformed to generic equip when transitioning to EotB III.

 

[Taghor]

Two questions before i further advance into EotB III:

1. Have i missed any option in EotB II to escape out of the room with the trapped cleric in the silver tower? I had tried different approaches but could not avoid the door closing.

2. Is it correct that the constitution bonus doesn't get applied to the HP gains on level-ups in EotB III any more? Just experienced that with several chars and feel a bit baffled.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Two questions before i further advance into EotB III:

1. Have i missed any option in EotB II to escape out of the room with the trapped cleric in the silver tower? I had tried different approaches but could not avoid the door closing.

Have a Flying Snake follow you, so that it stands in the doorway when you step over to speak to the Cleric. It'll prevent the door from closing.
It'll also glitch out the game a bit, as it loads in the 'other half' of the level data (to fit in the Cleric) but it'll be fixed the moment you walk down the stairs to exit the floor and then re-enter.

2. Is it correct that the constitution bonus doesn't get applied to the HP gains on level-ups in EotB III any more? Just experienced that with several chars and feel a bit baffled.

The level-up bonus for all classes below a certain level (either Level 9 or 10, depends on the class) is [Class Hit Die Roll+CON Bonus=Level Up-Hit Points]. Once a character enters the higher levels it's [Fixed HP amount+CON Bonus=Level Up-Hit Points]... or at least it's supposed to be. It's possible that the CON-bonus is applied in EotB1 and EotB2 (even past Level 9/10) but not in EotB3.

The best way to determine this is to check your party's Constitution-scores and see which members get the CON-bonus, then watch how many HP they gain the next time they gain a level, then compare that to the class's respective XP-table at the back of the manual. Mages only gain 1 HP per level after the 11th, but if they have CON 16 they should gain 3 HP (Mages don't benefit from a higher HP-bonus from a Constitution-score greater than 16).

 

[Taghor]

Two questions before i further advance into EotB III:

1. Have i missed any option in EotB II to escape out of the room with the trapped cleric in the silver tower? I had tried different approaches but could not avoid the door closing.

Have a Flying Snake follow you, so that it stands in the doorway when you step over to speak to the Cleric. It'll prevent the door from closing.
It'll also glitch out the game a bit, as it loads in the 'other half' of the level data (to fit in the Cleric) but it'll be fixed the moment you walk down the stairs to exit the floor and then re-enter.

2. Is it correct that the constitution bonus doesn't get applied to the HP gains on level-ups in EotB III any more? Just experienced that with several chars and feel a bit baffled.

The level-up bonus for all classes below a certain level (either Level 9 or 10, depends on the class) is [Class Hit Die Roll+CON Bonus=Level Up-Hit Points]. Once a character enters the higher levels it's [Fixed HP amount+CON Bonus=Level Up-Hit Points]... or at least it's supposed to be. It's possible that the CON-bonus is applied in EotB1 and EotB2 (even past Level 9/10) but not in EotB3.

The best way to determine this is to check your party's Constitution-scores and see which members get the CON-bonus, then watch how many HP they gain the next time they gain a level, then compare that to the class's respective XP-table at the back of the manual. Mages only gain 1 HP per level after the 11th, but if they have CON 16 they should gain 3 HP (Mages don't benefit from a higher HP-bonus from a Constitution-score greater than 16).

Thank you for this once more very insightful information!

The Flying Snake idea is plain great - i'd never had come to it by myself! It's gamey but so are death traps one can't escape out of... I guess i won't go back just for that but hopefully will memorize it for the next run...

The application of class HP die rolls and CON bonus did - as outlined in the manuals - work perfectly in EotB I and II. I capped the EotB II levels (13) and now in EotB III only the straight HP gain per class gets applied ( 1 / 2 / 3). The CON bonus does not get added for any of the classes any more. This won't break my run but i think that this is a bug?!



What's the community take on multi-classing? Do you ever do it and if so - for which classes do you believe it to be considerable? A dwarven fighter/thief seems to be a fairly common choice but what about a half-elven ranger/cleric? Or an elven mage/thief (I actually found Amber in EotB II to be a very versatile and overall useful character)?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Personally, I only multi-class for three reasons:

# I need to include a Thief in the party (hello short, hairy person!)

# I want to have a front-ranking caster for some reason (Fighter/Cleric or Fighter/Mage).

# I want to solo one character for all the XP and the extra challenge, and use other (dead) characters for inventory space only (Fighter/Mage/Cleric).

 

[Taghor]

That's interesting! I like secondary abilities as you can make more use of the magic items one finds during the journeys.

Next to the widespread dwarven fighter / thief i think that the following combinations are of interest:

Half-elven Ranger / Cleric
- has the best multi-class level caps (19/17)
- if mostly used as frontliner the cleric abilities can be used as just a backup ability (spells in reserve, especially during camp) it can make full use of both hands then
- makes for a good archer from the backrows. With simple clicks you can swiftly swap hands to change between bow and holy symbol in primary hand
- It potentially profits from a two-handed melee bonus but the game keeps silence on the exact effects (albeit you then can only use a - magic - leather armor)


Elven Mage / Thief
- Mages have a free hand for secondary function anyway
- Level caps (mage: 18, thief 15) are in the 'good' range
- can literally use every weapon in the game
- Elves have the best DEX max bonus for archery (backrow, primary hand can swiftly be changed)
- thief function for the party being filled
- thieves have a slightly better THAC0 than mages (also works for throwing / shooting)
- can wear (magic) leather armor


The general downside of XP spread has to be considered as always. Paladins and Mages have the highest XP requirements in the uppermost levels.
Still, i believe that these combinations weigh off the negatives.
Somehow the additional CON bonus for fighting classes does not seem to apply for multiclassed characters as my tests do indicate. Is this correct?

The old AD&D rules stated that for multiclass chars the better THAC0 value would apply. My tests seem to support this being implemented but the samples aren't big enough to be of statistic reliability.

The three-class combinations are tempting but the XP spread makes them really low level for most of a run i believe.

Running through with just one char (alive) certainly is a great challenge but i would miss the ability to do more than two actions at a time and opponents like beholders and mind flayers would constantly require save scumming which takes out too much immersion for me. I also would not like to look at the skulls in the party all time long...

 

[Taghor]

Another good multiclass combination is:

Half-Elven Mage / Cleric:
- Each of the classes requires only one hand. Spellbook and Holy Symbol can thus both be held ready at all times
- The cleric part allows for even the heaviest armor that is available in the series
- The level caps are in the upper echelons (Mage: 17 / Cleric 17)
- The THAC0 value of Clerics is in the ok'ish area so the char can potentially work as a substitute frontliner in times of need

While not reaching the highest field of mage (level 9 spells) in itself, this makes for an excellent secondary offensive spellcaster so you can virtually fire whole barrages of magic (taking turns during cooldown for each mage); one also gets the opportunity to make sensible use of redundant scrolls that otherwise just would lay around.


While our next adventure has begun and starts to unfold some evil machinations around Myth Drannor, a question arose:
Once more the party is heavily burdened with magic equipment i do not want to mindlessly leave behind - a clear downside when doing a thorough run through all three parts of the series. Are there also hub area(s) where i can pile up the valuable loot in EotB III without losing access to it in the later stages of the game?


EDIT: Finally found the proper Avatar YAY! (allseeing eyes would sometimes be a blessing indeed). Thanks to the good soul that once included the cool avatars in the forums!