Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Xeon]

I thought you don't get any benefits from odd numbers in IE games. Only even numbers gives you bonuses or something.

 

[Lilura]

You get +1/2 attack per round at clvl7 and 13 as a fighter (13 is too much downtime for IWD). You get fighter HD until clvl9.

Btw in your case since you have a balanced party you really don't need a dual-class fighter/mage. They are great to solo with, though.

Multi-classed demi-humans are the best performers in IWD with HoW + ToLM, especially if you do Heart of Fury mode.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Hey guys, I just reached chapter 2 and my characters hit level 5. I'm a complete noob, and I'm wondering who I should dual class and which class should be the second one. I have:

Paladin
Fighter
Ranger
Thief
Cleric
Mage

Don't stress it man. Tinker around with dual-classing in a way that you think will be fun, and then cry when you discover you've made a totally useless party.
Seriously though, play blind. It makes games so much better.



That said, since you've asked for input, I'll give you some general advice: spellcasters are super and mono-classed thieves are fucking useless.

 

[Sensuki]

yeah I always go a Fighter/Thief instead. Stealth and Pick Pocket are pretty useless in IWD1 as well.

 

[Minttunator]

I thought you don't get any benefits from odd numbers in IE games. Only even numbers gives you bonuses or something.

You're probably confusing the 2nd edition ruleset (that IWD1 is based on) with the 3rd edition ruleset (that IWD2 is based on).

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

...Stealth and Pick Pocket are pretty useless in IWD1 as well.

They're pretty under-developed and unnecessary in all the IE games frankly. Outside of Sneak Attack in IWD2, their most important feature is being able to detect traps that most people save-scum to locate.

 

[octavius]

...Stealth and Pick Pocket are pretty useless in IWD1 as well.

They're pretty under-developed and unnecessary in all the IE games frankly. Outside of Sneak Attack in IWD2, their most important feature is being able to detect traps that most people save-scum to locate.

Well, that's your opinion. My experience is different. I recall in IWD my Fighter/Thief, thanks to backstabbing, usually did 75% of all kills before the mage develops his weapons of mass destruction. In the BG games a good F/T is even more effective, since you tend to meet more adventurer/boss type enemies. Chunking an enemy spell caster or archer is the best way to open many battles.

 

[Lilura]

If you're playing blind then stealth is generally good for scouting in IE games, and locks and traps are important skills to a point (though potions can buff those skills).

Spoiler

In IWD pick pocket can be used in Kuldahar for 2x Ring of Free Action (which are OP), but is otherwise mostly useless.

Backstab is situationally impressive in IE games even with pure thieves, but especially in BG2 with Sins, Kensai/Thieves, mage Shapeshifting and PS:T speed runs.

IWD2 thieves have flavor with the special feats, but they should probably take a 4lvl fighter mix-in for a beefup.

 

[Dreaad]

Just dual class the thief to whatever the fuck else. I mean you'll be fine either way, but a thief/mage or thief/fighter would be moar useful.

 

[octavius]

Just dual class the thief to whatever the fuck else. I mean you'll be fine either way, but a thief/mage or thief/fighter would be moar useful.

Dual classing a lv 5 thief would make him more useless (as a thief) IMO, since his skills will be stuck at low level, and his backstab modifier will only be 2. Better to develop the pure thief, but realize he'll have poorer HP and THAC0 than a F/T.

 

[RandomAccount]

I've never bothered dual-classing in Icewind Dale. Not once. The game feels better with pure classes. But then I always tend to go with large parties on regular difficulty and don't play with Heart Of Winter installed (thereby reducing the OP nature of some characters such as Mages, Druids and Bards).

Theifs are just a quality of life character in IWD. They would have been more 'useful' if they had been able to detect/clear traps while being stealthed, but, generally, they just help improve the flow of the game, like opening locked chests with consummate ease, removing traps and stealth-scouting. Pick-pocketing in Kuldahar is kind-of an in-the-know cheat rather than a game feature to be used throughout. You have six characters, just have a straight thief at the back somewhere to make the flow better.

You don't really need multiple mages because the spells are limited anyway. If you go for a fighter/mage or thief/mage its more like gimping for a perceived improvement rather than anything actually definite (again, this might be different in a HoW game).

The only dual I'd consider as being hugely beneficial in vanilla IWD is possibly Thief/Bard, just so you can have a character that uses the Horn of Valhalla. But I never do this as it feels like cheesing.

IWD2 is a completely different kettle of fish. I see people on Youtube where virtually every character is Dualed with either a mage, sorcerer or thief.

 

[Lilura]

Pick-pocketing in Kuldahar is kind-of an in-the-know cheat

Not really, it makes sense that your bard or thief goes to work in the town... the problem is that in IE the pickpocket result is all or nothing, you either succeed or die. Well, Orrick can be killed but then you miss out on his spell scrolls and by-chapter restocks, but Arundel is invulnerable so a failure means reload because he's a hostiled plot-critical NPC, and the whole town comes at you with pitchforks. That's just lousy design, though. Can't blame the player for trying...

 

[kmonster]

Hey guys, I just reached chapter 2 and my characters hit level 5. I'm a complete noob, and I'm wondering who I should dual class and which class should be the second one. I have:

Paladin
Fighter
Ranger
Thief
Cleric
Mage

For this decision it would be useful to know whether you're playing IWD1 or IWD2 and which stats your characters have.

Without knowing this I can't give you any advice, except that you can do more harm than good if you don't know exactly what you're doing. The games are designed for pure classes.

 

[RandomAccount]

Not really, it makes sense that your bard or thief goes to work in the town... the problem is that in IE the pickpocket result is all or nothing, you either succeed or die. Well, Orrick can be killed but then you miss out on his spell scrolls and by-chapter restocks, but Arundel is invulnerable so a failure means reload because he's a hostiled plot-critical NPC, and the whole town comes at you with pitchforks. That's just lousy design, though. Can't blame the player for trying...

I completely agree. If you have a pickpocket skill, it makes sense to use it! It's the latter part of your post which makes it feel like an in-the-know-cheat, because the likelyhood of a pickpocketer being successful with every encounter when they first enter Easthaven or Kuldahar is virtually nil - thereby forcing a reload system. The only way to 'enjoyably' utilise the Pickpocket mechanic is to know, precisely, where you have to use it and to then save scum.

I tried to do a really scientific playthrough once where I would attempt to Pickpocket every single NPC in the game, but the sheer unpleasantness of the mechanic made me quit the endeavour as too tedious to bother with. There's a guy who tried to do this on the gamebanshee IWD forum (either 1 or 2) and the same thing happened to him.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

...Stealth and Pick Pocket are pretty useless in IWD1 as well.

They're pretty under-developed and unnecessary in all the IE games frankly. Outside of Sneak Attack in IWD2, their most important feature is being able to detect traps that most people save-scum to locate.

Well, that's your opinion. My experience is different. I recall in IWD my Fighter/Thief, thanks to backstabbing, usually did 75% of all kills before the mage develops his weapons of mass destruction. In the BG games a good F/T is even more effective, since you tend to meet more adventurer/boss type enemies. Chunking an enemy spell caster or archer is the best way to open many battles.

Again, I was speaking of mono-classed thieves only. F/T and F/M are definitely some of the strongest mechanical characters possible. As to backstab's usefulness, I will defer the point to you; it would probably have been more accurate to say that I find the amount of micro necessary to utilize it fully to be very tedious.

 

[octavius]

...Stealth and Pick Pocket are pretty useless in IWD1 as well.

They're pretty under-developed and unnecessary in all the IE games frankly. Outside of Sneak Attack in IWD2, their most important feature is being able to detect traps that most people save-scum to locate.

Well, that's your opinion. My experience is different. I recall in IWD my Fighter/Thief, thanks to backstabbing, usually did 75% of all kills before the mage develops his weapons of mass destruction. In the BG games a good F/T is even more effective, since you tend to meet more adventurer/boss type enemies. Chunking an enemy spell caster or archer is the best way to open many battles.

Again, I was speaking of mono-classed thieves only. F/T and F/M are definitely some of the strongest mechanical characters possible. As to backstab's usefulness, I will defer the point to you; it would probably have been more accurate to say that I find the amount of micro necessary to utilize it fully to be very tedious.

OK, I misunderstood that you were talking about single class thieves, then.
As for backstabbing, yet it's a bit more involved than hitting the awesome attack button, but it pays off, and I think you miss part of the game by not using it.

 

[jdinatale]

Hey guys, I'm really bad at strategy, and I've been stuck at this chokepoint for like an hour

Basically I go down and there are trolls and wizards and stuff.

I have, all level 6, a Fighter, Paladin, Thief, Mage, Priest, and Ranger.

I try buffing all my party first with Prist buff spells, and I also cast summoning magic to try to tank of the damage.

Usually one or more of my characters get "held" and that kills me quickly.

 

[octavius]

Do you have a stack of invisibility potions? Then you can have your Thief backstab the spell casters. Quaff potion, move up to enemy, bakstab, run like hell and quaff a new potion again. Rinse and repeat.

Cast Haste on your party and your summons.

Make sure the Trolls stay dead, by using the "molotov cocktails" found on a higher level, fire and acid arrows, flaming weapons and Fireball spells, once the Trolls go down for the first time.

Use the summons to draw enemy spells.

Use Silence spells on enemy spell casters.

Too bad you don't have a Druid, since they have some excellent long lasting area effect spell that prevent those caught in it from casting spells. Very useful before you have enough firepower to Fireball the enemies to death.

 

[RandomAccount]

This is one of the best fights in the game, why do you want it spoiled?

Isn't that what games are supposed to be about? Keep trying different things until you hit on something?

Oh well...

You answered your own post - it's a choke point.

Send in someone who is invisible, might as well make it a thief. Have them stand just in the entrance so you can see about 4 trolls and the guy on the platform.

Send in a fighter, really slowly. The second he triggers the trolls, have him run back to a choke point where all your other guys are - but make sure the trolls follow.

Use your invisible guy to keep an eye on enemy activity, they are fine standing there, invisibility lasts for ages.

Gradually pull them all out in small chunks or make it so that your choke point doesn't let more than two get to you anyway.

Throw in some summons as well, behind their last man.

If someone gets held use Dispel Magic.

If you're playing Heart of Winter then everyone might pile out to greet you, if you're playing vanilla you can pick them off quite easily.

 

[Dreaad]

You can also try simple things like interrupting the enemy casters with arrows or magic missile, until your fighter and paladin can kill them. In the meantime kite the trolls or just tank them with the cleric or mage. There's more than one way of dealing with that fight, try some different things, you'll get there.

 

[Lilura]

I completely agree. If you have a pickpocket skill, it makes sense to use it! It's the latter part of your post which makes it feel like an in-the-know-cheat, because the likelyhood of a pickpocketer being successful with every encounter when they first enter Easthaven or Kuldahar is virtually nil - thereby forcing a reload system. The only way to 'enjoyably' utilise the Pickpocket mechanic is to know, precisely, where you have to use it and to then save scum.

Knowing "precisely" who to pick pocket is a simple matter of identifying choice targets, who are named and exert power and influence over the town.

Stop calling it cheating, it isn't. It can only be called cheese if you have like 20% and constantly reload until you finally pilfer the item, but thieves can very easily get high pick pocket percent - even without maxed dex adjustment and racial bonus - at clvl5.

Also, if you run around pick pocketing every commoner for 1gp knowing that failure = reload, like you said you do, then hurr durr derpity derp.

I have, all level 6, a Fighter, Paladin, Thief, Mage, Priest, and Ranger.

That encounter can be hard for new players.

You also have three warriors at lvl6, at lvl7 they get +1/2 attack which makes a very noticeable difference. If you're close to lvl7, it might be worth your while to do any unfinished quests if that bumps you up, then just push your way through with a mixture of tactics listed by Octavius, plus Free Action + Web is always solid.

 

[RandomAccount]

Thanks for failing to read...

 

[Minttunator]

I'm partial to casting a bunch of crowd control spells on top of one another - Web, Cloudkill/Stinking Cloud, Entangle etc. Most enemies will fail their save for at least one of the spells and then you can just either clean up with AoE spells or pick them off with ranged weapons.

 

[norolim]

the second one has [...] much better encounter design than the first one.

Wow, I must have forgotten how bad encounter design is in IWD, 'cause I'm currently re-playing IWD2 for felipe's book, and I must say, sometimes encounter design is rather horrible. There are many areas, that you're put directly into combat on entry, difficulty is most often achieved by large enemy numbers and, worst of all, there are a lot of those encounters, where throngs of enemies are just spawned around you out of nowhere. I wouldn't exactly call that good design.

 

[pippin]

In that fight I used AoE spells plus summons. For me, it's one of the reasons why you should take a druid and a cleric. The results are amazing.