Decline The lack of recovery among American RPGs, visualised with graphs

[JarlFrank]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

Ok now list me the good AAA games.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

"b-b-but that's not AAA!"
It had nearly 50% more developers than Skyrim had. It cost nearly $40 million to make in an eastern european country.

And it proves that Europe wins out over the US

Wasn't your original point that American AAA devs do better than European devs?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Most indie titles are pure garbage. If I had to play a totally random AAA or indie game, I'd pick the AAA game because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre.
How many 2020 indie games have you guys even heard of? There was nearly 10,000 titles released on Steam last year.

I have a feeling that you are a person who regularly goes to eat out to McDonald "because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre". Go fuck yourself, people like you are why this world is such a shitty place.

here's your indie rpg bro

Would rather play this than Ass Creed. And Ass Creed is more representative to AAA garbage than the game you presented is to indie RPGs. Yes rusty, even doing a biased comparison didn't help you.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

Ok now list me the good AAA games.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

"b-b-but that's not AAA!"
It had nearly 50% more developers than Skyrim had. It cost nearly $40 million to make in an eastern european country.

And it proves that Europe wins out over the US

Wasn't your original point that American AAA devs do better than European devs?

Todd Howard has been rereleasing the same game for a decade causing his company to be sold to Microsoft for $7.5 billion dollars, the largest video game company acquisition in history.
Koch bought War Horse studios for $40 million USD.

Would rather play this than Ass Creed. And Ass Creed is more representative to AAA garbage than the game you presented is to indie RPGs. Yes rusty, even doing a biased comparison didn't help you.

I'm already well aware that you would rather eat dogshit off the floor than mcdonalds, midwit.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

You guys are the equivalent of hipsters going to modern art shows to gawk at feminists shoving cans of spaghetti-os up their vaginas.

Still more exciting than Disney life remakes of classic cartoons.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

most video games are absolute garbage, indie worship is obnoxious -- as if they produce better games on average(lol not even close)

Two posts above JarlFrank gave 11 examples of great indie games. If there are so many great AAA games give us an equal amount of examples to prove your point. I mean for such a staunch defender of AAA coming up with ONLY 11 great AAA games should be a piece of cake, right? No cheating and putting AA games on your list, we are not going to pretend that Dark Souls are AAA.

 

[good fucking shit happen]

Why the fuck is one of the few voices of reason in this thread a commie? He is making too much sense for a red.

while retaining his honor and integrity as a craftsman

He's a businessman in the entertainment industry, not an artisan with wealthy patrons that have good tastes in RPGs. Artistic integrity is for hobbyists.

As long as your business can support yourself, it is successful.

Most (all?) AAA devs don't have 'their' businesses, but shareholders that they answer to. So if you pursue your vision to the detriment of their safe profits, you'll either loose their financial backing or be forced to take a backseat from lead design.

They will start believing that mediocrity is good and it's the only way to go. The myth of meritocracy plays a role there, artists will start believing that products specifications given by suits are right and that their instincts to oppose them are just a sign of their own arrogance.

And they'd be right. Safe profits > 'passion projects' with unpredictable sale numbers. It's a business, not some snobbish art collective.

This gives me hope, some of them will eventually decide to go rogue and form splinter studios, that should eventually produce something of value.

Are you willing to pay double or triple the price of a mainstream game for a higher quality alternative though? Because otherwise, I really don't see it happening. At most you'll get janky games with a good core, but not enough resources to chisel them to the same level as their mainstream counterparts.

If artists want to go independent and make passion projects on their own, it's all fine and dandy. Issue is that most of them won't and those that become indie devs tend not to be the cream of the crop, but rather those that are too mediocre to make it big enough as to be asked either to join a bigger studio as individuals or to have their indie studio bought altogether and then run as a subsidiary by the bigger one.

This is all like music to my ears. John Adams would be proud and Milton Friedman would have given his characteristic smile if he had read these posts.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

most video games are absolute garbage, indie worship is obnoxious -- as if they produce better games on average(lol not even close)

Two posts above JarlFrank gave 11 examples of great indie games. If there are so many great AAA games give us an equal amount of examples to prove your point. I mean for such a staunch defender of AAA coming up with ONLY 11 great AAA games should be a piece of cake, right? No cheating and putting AA games on your list, we are not going to pretend that Dark Souls are AAA.

would you like me to just link the codex top 101? Because it's about 75% AAA games

 

[jackofshadows]

most people choose to spend their hard earned money on

Lmao. Most people are ignorant plebs, that's not... too hard to notice. Who the fuck cares about "most people's taste"? At least codexers are trying to rise above them when it comes to RPGs. Your "free market is everything" agenda is hilarious in this context.

Also, regarding indie: some devs are making them as a hobby. How's that for RoI?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Lmao. Most people are ignorant plebs,

"ugh, they like just don't understand how complex my tastes are!"
lmao codex hipsters

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Would rather play this than Ass Creed. And Ass Creed is more representative to AAA garbage than the game you presented is to indie RPGs. Yes rusty, even doing a biased comparison didn't help you.

I'm already well aware that you would rather eat dogshit off the floor than mcdonalds, midwit.

A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist. False dilemmas often have the form of treating two contraries, which may both be false, as contradictories, of which one is necessarily true. Various inferential schemes are associated with false dilemmas, for example, the constructive dilemma, the destructive dilemma or the disjunctive syllogism. False dilemmas are usually discussed in terms of deductive arguments. But they can also occur as defeasible arguments. Our liability to commit false dilemmas may be due to the tendency to simplify reality by ordering it through either-or-statements, which is to some extent already built into our language. This may also be connected to the tendency to insist on clear distinction while denying the vagueness of many common expressions.

 

[good fucking shit happen]

Wasn't your original point that American AAA devs do better than European devs?

Low production cost always wins out in the end and America is expensive thanks to socialist governmental policies that makes many national industries less attractive for investors and companies than cheaper alternatives.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Would rather play this than Ass Creed. And Ass Creed is more representative to AAA garbage than the game you presented is to indie RPGs. Yes rusty, even doing a biased comparison didn't help you.

I'm already well aware that you would rather eat dogshit off the floor than mcdonalds, midwit.

A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist. False dilemmas often have the form of treating two contraries, which may both be false, as contradictories, of which one is necessarily true. Various inferential schemes are associated with false dilemmas, for example, the constructive dilemma, the destructive dilemma or the disjunctive syllogism. False dilemmas are usually discussed in terms of deductive arguments. But they can also occur as defeasible arguments. Our liability to commit false dilemmas may be due to the tendency to simplify reality by ordering it through either-or-statements, which is to some extent already built into our language. This may also be connected to the tendency to insist on clear distinction while denying the vagueness of many common expressions.

midwit resorts to quoting wikipedia, a classic

 

[good fucking shit happen]

Lmao. Most people are ignorant plebs,

"ugh, they like just don't understand how complex my tastes are!"
lmao codex hipsters

 

[Endemic]

Hard to recover if smaller developers get consolidated into ever enlarging corporations. There's not much middle ground left in the US between three-man indies and EA.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

most video games are absolute garbage, indie worship is obnoxious -- as if they produce better games on average(lol not even close)

Two posts above JarlFrank gave 11 examples of great indie games. If there are so many great AAA games give us an equal amount of examples to prove your point. I mean for such a staunch defender of AAA coming up with ONLY 11 great AAA games should be a piece of cake, right? No cheating and putting AA games on your list, we are not going to pretend that Dark Souls are AAA.

would you like me to just link the codex top 101? Because it's about 75% AAA games

Pretending that 90s games are comparable to today's AAA is cheating, especially considering that most of Codex favorites weren't flagship projects. Fallout development was at best semi-official through most of it's development. You seem to be very afraid to give 11 examples of great AAA, why it is? May it be because there are none?

midwit resorts to quoting wikipedia, a classic

Bold worlds for someone whose points can be easily dismissed with a wikipedia level of knowledge. I don't need to open a book to debunk your points, it would be like sending a tank after a fly.

 

[NJClaw]

Rusty, what's your favorite RPG of this generation? The Outer Worlds, Far Cry New Dawn, or Assassin's Creed Odissey?

 

[JarlFrank]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

Ok now list me the good AAA games.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

"b-b-but that's not AAA!"
It had nearly 50% more developers than Skyrim had. It cost nearly $40 million to make in an eastern european country.

And it proves that Europe wins out over the US

Wasn't your original point that American AAA devs do better than European devs?

Todd Howard has been rereleasing the same game for a decade causing his company to be sold to Microsoft for $7.5 billion dollars, the largest video game company acquisition in history.
Koch bought War Horse studios for $40 million USD.

I asked you to cite good AAA games.
You cited a good AAA game.
It was made by Eastern Europeans. Same production values as many American games in the same league.
You might also mention Witcher 3 if you're a storyfag, lots of storyfags love that game, even here on the Codex. Made by Polaks.
If we go down into the solid mid-list AA sphere you can mention Piranha Bytes with the Gothics, Risens, and Elex. Made by Germans.

But now that it's established that even in the AA and AAA sphere, Europeans make higher quality products than Americans, you go back to business success instead of game quality.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

you go back to business success instead of game quality.

Also known as a neoliberal brain rot.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You seem to be very afraid to give 11 examples of great AAA, why it is? May it be because there are none?

He had to reach into other genres to list 11 games going back 11 years and including early access titles despite there probably being 500 indie games released for every AAA game.

Bold worlds for someone whose points can be easily dismissed with a wikipedia level of knowledge. I don't need to open a book to debunk your points, it would be like sending a tank after a fly.

Nope, you're just a midwit.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty believes that the existence of shovelware invalidates the existence of the good indies, which is complete bullshit.

I can just as easily turn this around and ask why the codex thinks the existence of Skyrim invalidates the existence of good AAA games

Ok now list me the good AAA games.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance

"b-b-but that's not AAA!"
It had nearly 50% more developers than Skyrim had. It cost nearly $40 million to make in an eastern european country.

And it proves that Europe wins out over the US

Wasn't your original point that American AAA devs do better than European devs?

Todd Howard has been rereleasing the same game for a decade causing his company to be sold to Microsoft for $7.5 billion dollars, the largest video game company acquisition in history.
Koch bought War Horse studios for $40 million USD.

I asked you to cite good AAA games.
You cited a good AAA game.
It was made by Eastern Europeans. Same production values as many American games in the same league.
You might also mention Witcher 3 if you're a storyfag, lots of storyfags love that game, even here on the Codex. Made by Polaks.
If we go down into the solid mid-list AA sphere you can mention Piranha Bytes with the Gothics, Risens, and Elex. Made by Germans.

But now that it's established that even in the AA and AAA sphere, Europeans make higher quality products than Americans, you go back to business success instead of game quality.

Have you considered that the tastes of the site are biased towards european games because ...europeans make up a majority of the posters?
Big brain moment.

Next we'll have to figure out why 4chan likes jrpgs so much. Surely nothing to do with all the weeaboos.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

He had to reach into other genres to list 11 games going back 11 years and including early access titles despite there probably being 500 indie games released for every AAA game.

If we tried we could list 11 great indie games from the last 3 years. But fair enough. Gives us 11 great AAA from last 11 years including early access titles. This shouldn't be that difficult. Go rusty! Don't need to dodge the question, when you can easily prove to us AAA superiority. It's your time to shine, so why you are running away?

Nope, you're just a midwit.

You have been using the same insult 3 times in a row. Who really is a midwit here?

 

[JarlFrank]

Have you considered that the tastes of the site are biased towards european games because ...europeans make up a majority of the posters?
Big brain moment.

Next we'll have to figure out why 4chan likes jrpgs so much. Surely nothing to do with all the weeaboos.

Then how come that when I asked you to list good AAA games, the first thing that came to your mind was KCD, a Czech game?

Are you lapsing in your patriotism, American? Is it time to send you to the re-education camps?

 

[Poseidon00]

Low production cost always wins out in the end and America is expensive thanks to socialist governmental policies that makes many national industries less attractive for investors and companies than cheaper alternatives.

Only some parts of the US are very expensive.

But, for some reason, the most expensive places are the places where game studios like to set up shop and force everyone to move to.

Could cut a not-insignificant amount of the budget just by moving to a cheaper location.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Have you considered that the tastes of the site are biased towards european games because ...europeans make up a majority of the posters?
Big brain moment.

Next we'll have to figure out why 4chan likes jrpgs so much. Surely nothing to do with all the weeaboos.

Then how come that when I asked you to list good AAA games, the first thing that came to your mind was KCD, a Czech game?

Are you lapsing in your patriotism, American? Is it time to send you to the re-education camps?

Because I knew that you had an inherit bias towards european games and by listing KCD you couldn't deny my answer, also because I know you like KCD.

 

[jackofshadows]

Have you considered that the tastes of the site are biased towards european games because ...europeans make up a majority of the posters?
Big brain moment.

Next we'll have to figure out why 4chan likes jrpgs so much. Surely nothing to do with all the weeaboos.

Your own example, 2020 codex goty: WL3 wins against CP77, not to mention Dungeon of Naheulbeuk. Extreme levels of biasedness, indeed.