Decline The lack of recovery among American RPGs, visualised with graphs

[rusty_shackleford]

They take years and hundreds (thousands?) of highly paid professionals to make, and Todd works hard and runs a tight ship.

Skyrim & FO4 had a much smaller development team than people seem to realize. Skyrim's developers barely numbered into the 100 according to Todd Howard himself.

 

[The Jester]

West Virginia and Montana are our last chance for incline.

Many such cases. What’s the red thing?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

It's a business

It is not. Take the artist, the writer or the designer out of the creative process and there is no game. Take the corpos out of the equation and ultimately the game will still be made.
It would be rustic, indie, jankie and strange. But it will be, just like it has been before.

That you can make a profit out of games is just a natural result of the artist making something that a group of people want, and they support it because of that.

Yes, but we are talking about two types of products. In the first case, it is the corpos making something that people want, the artist being just one of the tools at the company's disposal in order to create that product.

If artists want to go independent and make passion projects on their own, it's all fine and dandy. Issue is that most of them won't and those that become indie devs tend not to be the cream of the crop, but rather those that are too mediocre to make it big enough as to be asked either to join a bigger studio as individuals or to have their indie studio bought altogether and then run as a subsidiary by the bigger one.

 

[Dycedarg]

Yes, but we are talking about two types of products. In the first case, it is the corpos making something that people want, the artist being just one of the tools at the company's disposal in order to create that product.

If artists want to go independent and make passion projects on their own, it's all fine and dandy. Issue is that most of them won't and those that become indie devs tend not to be the cream of the crop, but rather those that are too mediocre to make it big enough as to be asked either to join a bigger studio as individuals or to have their indie studio bought altogether and then run as a subsidiary by the bigger one.

We are not only talking about two kinds of products, but two kinds of attitudes towards game development. If you work at a major corporation, this is your job. It doesn't matter much if the game is good, only that it sells well, which is pretty important for you if you don't want to get fired. On the other hand, if you make games as a hobby, you probably do it in your spare time. And while you would certainly like for your game to sell well, your survival and well being doesn't depend on it, unless you are completely delusional.

But here's the thing: America does have a pretty good number of smaller gaming studios made by people who decided to go indie. It's just that most of them don't make rpgs. Some are even financially successful like Yacht Club Games, Wayfoward, Team Meat, Supergiant Games and many others (and many of those have pretty good developers). And yes, becoming an independent developer without a backup plan is just lunacy. But we do see people from all over the world make indie rpgs, and sometime they succeed. And we do see american game developers go the indie route, sometimes with good results. But for some bizarre reason, there's a shortage of independent american rpg developers. That's the part I don't understand.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

But for some bizarre reason, there's a shortage of independent american rpg developers. That's the part I don't understand.

Classic TTRPG-inspired games are just a dying genre, same as with RTS titles. I'm guessing that the European market is just 'behind' the American one and TTRPGs don't seem as outdated (or on the contrary, they've become a hipster thing for cultural Americanophiles) to prospective indie devs.

It's all just speculation on my part though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Dycedarg]

But for some bizarre reason, there's a shortage of independent american rpg developers. That's the part I don't understand.

Classic TTRPG-inspired games are just a dying genre, same as with RTS titles. I'm guessing that the European market is just 'behind' the American one and TTRPGs don't seem as outdated (or on the contrary, they've become a hipster thing for cultural Americanophiles) to prospective indie devs.

It's all just speculation on my part though, so take it with a grain of salt.

It's possible. But TTRPGs don't seem to be going nowhere. Though it's certainly true that none of them have the impact original D&D had on gaming.

 

[S.torch]

If artists want to go independent and make passion projects on their own, it's all fine and dandy. Issue is that most of them won't and those that become indie devs tend not to be the cream of the crop, but rather those that are too mediocre to make it big enough as to be asked either to join a bigger studio as individuals or to have their indie studio bought altogether and then run as a subsidiary by the bigger one.

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Their best as far as creativity is concerned, but their financial limitations are also felt (and often their lack of experience, since many of those only get to become experienced devs after they get bought).

Don't really disagree with your post(s) though, we're just looking at things from different angles.

 

[Lord of Riva]

It's the question between freedom and safety.

There is not much to it i believe. At some point in ones life one may not be able to just risk it when it comes to your income, some may not want to risk it from the get go because they value their well being first.
That said there are clearly enough people who aren't that creative in the industry that still have a vital function.

The result is the same, naturally, we do not get great games from some who would be able to risk things but for what it's worth I can not fault those people who simply go work, instead of being the eccentric artist who can be one of the wealthiest but most likely end up breadless.

 

[Parabalus]

The rest of the world has made huge gains in wealth, education, and English proficiency since then. So now we're competing on a level playing field, except that Americans have to pay more for rent.

Looks like combating White privilege rewarded us with quality RPGs.

 

[Cunt Dickula!?]

West Virginia and Montana are our last chance for incline.

Many such cases. What’s the red thing?

You guys just jealous that Vault Dweller doesn't go "WAHOO!"

 

[mondblut]

But for some bizarre reason, there's a shortage of independent american rpg developers. That's the part I don't understand.

Whenever someone appears, Vogel kills him. There can be only one.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Most indie titles are pure garbage. If I had to play a totally random AAA or indie game, I'd pick the AAA game because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre.
How many 2020 indie games have you guys even heard of? There was nearly 10,000 titles released on Steam last year.

 

[mondblut]

It's possible. But TTRPGs don't seem to be going nowhere.

"Nowhere" is not the kind of a word I would choose to use in this instance...

 

[jackofshadows]

ITT: rusty mimics Templar because it suit his agenda.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ITT: rusty mimics Templar because it suit his agenda.

my only agenda is countering indie worship because the codex cherrypicks a few corn kernels out of the diarrhea shitheap

 

[jackofshadows]

ITT: rusty mimics Templar because it suit his agenda.

my only agenda is countering indie worship because the codex cherrypicks a few corn kernels out of the diarrhea shitheap

Even a few is better than endless stream of corporate consolized trash "RPGs" by Microsoft. I just don't understand what'd be the point of codex if we'll all just agree that the one and only indicator of a good RPG is RoI.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ITT: rusty mimics Templar because it suit his agenda.

my only agenda is countering indie worship because the codex cherrypicks a few corn kernels out of the diarrhea shitheap

Even a few is better than endless stream of corporate consolized trash "RPGs" by Microsoft. I just don't understand what'd be the point of codex if we'll all just agree that the one and only indicator of a good RPG is RoI.

a microsoft rpg won codex 2020 goty

 

[jackofshadows]

ITT: rusty mimics Templar because it suit his agenda.

my only agenda is countering indie worship because the codex cherrypicks a few corn kernels out of the diarrhea shitheap

Even a few is better than endless stream of corporate consolized trash "RPGs" by Microsoft. I just don't understand what'd be the point of codex if we'll all just agree that the one and only indicator of a good RPG is RoI.

a microsoft rpg won codex 2020 goty

Yeah that's a strong point, although it's way overrated here in my view. Can't wait for the next ones, 100% under MS developed RPGs.

 

[anvi]

america is really gay so it makes shitty games. there's your analysis without the graphs, folks.

Nope, the point is that it used to make great games, then suddenly it stopped (together with everyone else). Then others recovered, but America didn't.

Feels to me like America is more decisive and waits for a better time to get back into RPGs. And the rest of the world are filling in the gaps in the meantime.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Most indie titles are pure garbage. If I had to play a totally random AAA or indie game, I'd pick the AAA game because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre.
How many 2020 indie games have you guys even heard of? There was nearly 10,000 titles released on Steam last year.

I have a feeling that you are a person who regularly goes to eat out to McDonald "because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre". Go fuck yourself, people like you are why this world is such a shitty place.

 

[Lord_Potato]

American devs are either creatively bankrupt or they got #metooed.

At the same time Europe caught up and is hungry for success.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Most indie titles are pure garbage. If I had to play a totally random AAA or indie game, I'd pick the AAA game because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre.
How many 2020 indie games have you guys even heard of? There was nearly 10,000 titles released on Steam last year.

I have a feeling that you are a person who regularly goes to eat out to McDonald "because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre". Go fuck yourself, people like you are why this world is such a shitty place.

here's your indie rpg bro

 

[NJClaw]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Most indie titles are pure garbage. If I had to play a totally random AAA or indie game, I'd pick the AAA game because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre.

But you don't have to pick games totally at random, do you? Most indie titles are pure garbage, fine, but there's a community of enthusiasts willing to try them out and collectively push the ones that are actually worth your time. Sure, this means that NEKOPARA Vol. 1 will boast a 96% rating on Steam, but it's easy to determine which games are the NEKOPARAs and which ones are the Hollow Knights.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is the contrary. When the team is indie or small is usually when they make their best. When the team starts to become corporated or gets bought by a big corpo, is when they start to make the usual prefabricated trash.

Most indie titles are pure garbage. If I had to play a totally random AAA or indie game, I'd pick the AAA game because there's a decent chance it's just mediocre.

But you don't have to pick games totally at random, do you? Most indie titles are pure garbage, fine, but there's a community of enthusiasts willing to try them out and collectively push the ones that are actually worth your time. Sure, this means that NEKOPARA Vol. 1 will boast a 96% rating on Steam, but it's easy to determine which games are the NEKOPARA Vol. 1 and which ones are the Hollow Knight.

Apparently out of thousands upon thousands of indie titles -- the most ever released on steam in a year -- there wasn't a single indie RPG better than Wasteland 3 last year.
If you feel like wading through that shitheap, be my guest. Goodluck finding the few gems.