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The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
I have to agree, it felt underwhelming, but maybe it's suffering from first episode syndrome and they're slowly setting up a plot? I'm willing to give it that. It seems like it's going in the same direction as Half in the bag, i.e. a review show / sitcom hybrid. The review wasn't anything special but I don't think it's supposed to be, either. I mean, how old is Arkham City?

Eh, I dunno.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Half a year old. And eh, it's what the guy said it is, a good game suffering from some padding and some under-developed stuffies.

And now, for something completely different, supposedly this comes from one of Bio writers:

http://pastebin.com/i2cNVDp4


I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).

No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d

And again, it shows.





Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.
 

Mrowak

Arcane
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
3,947
Project: Eternity
Still, I have to say that despite the shortcomings the review was somehow more honest and to the point than the reviews from commercial sites.
 

Kashrlyyk

Scholar
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
112
Wow, can someone post that in the spoilers section of Biowares forum? http://www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html
This is amazing. He seems to have a very detailed understanding of storytelling, and then he announces that Mass Effect is the greatest story ever told. ....

He NEVER says that. What he says is:

The series as a whole is perhaps the greatest example of how every single one of these things is done to perfection, except for one part (and I think you know what part I'm referring to, it's why I'm writing this whole thing). I use the word perfection here in no light matter. I have never read, watched, or felt any narrative to be its equal. I think this is because of the nature of the medium. No where else can you so actively take part in something that has so much immersion, connection, and realism. This is simply it. I would even argue that it is greater then the greatest things ever written. You simply cannot interact (empathize) with a book in the same way you can a video game. I know this is heresy to people of literature, but it is a simple fact. Books can never interact in the same way as a video game can. I would actually like to stop calling them video games, they are way past the definition of a game. I don't know what I'd call them, but many are not games anymore.

He is talking about: "The motivation, the act, and then the consequence"!!! The mechanics behind a story are done to perfection, he is not talking about the content of the story. And the "greatest things" he is talking about is the fact that video games allow you better immersion, connection and realism than ANY other medium. Again he is not saying that Mass Effect is the greatest story ever.

Another quote:
There really is not much more to say. I originally wanted to start out to explain that it is not that the fans want a 'happy' ending, but that we wanted an ending that was related to the story we have been experiencing. I wanted people to know why they felt the way they did, what they were being denied, and what they were expecting.
Now, if only Bioware and the detractors would finally get it.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
x1UWo.jpg
 

861129

Cipher
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
1,011
Location
gone, not around any longer
Kashrlyyk said:
He NEVER says that. What he says is:

The series as a whole is perhaps the greatest example of how every single one of these things is done to perfection, except for one part (and I think you know what part I'm referring to, it's why I'm writing this whole thing). I use the word perfection here in no light matter. I have never read, watched, or felt any narrative to be its equal. I think this is because of the nature of the medium. No where else can you so actively take part in something that has so much immersion, connection, and realism. This is simply it. I would even argue that it is greater then the greatest things ever written. You simply cannot interact (empathize) with a book in the same way you can a video game. I know this is heresy to people of literature, but it is a simple fact. Books can never interact in the same way as a video game can. I would actually like to stop calling them video games, they are way past the definition of a game. I don't know what I'd call them, but many are not games anymore.

He is talking about: "The motivation, the act, and then the consequence"!!! The mechanics behind a story are done to perfection, he is not talking about the content of the story. And the "greatest things" he is talking about is the fact that video games allow you better immersion, connection and realism than ANY other medium. Again he is not saying that Mass Effect is the greatest story ever.

50% popamole, 50% Michael Bay movie is the perfect medium for the mechanics of the story, for depicting "the motivation, the act, and then the consequence". Greater than the greatest things ever written.

Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

And very intellectually he ended.
 

CrustyBot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
814
Codex 2012
There really is not much more to say. I originally wanted to start out to explain that it is not that the fans want a 'happy' ending, but that we wanted an ending that was related to the story we have been experiencing. I wanted people to know why they felt the way they did, what they were being denied, and what they were expecting.
Now, if only Bioware and the detractors would finally get it.

It's weird, many of the biodrones or people who hate the endings actually push for this. Yes, there's a good number of people wanting

Tali_and_Shepard_Wedding_by_lolSergio.png


But from what I can gather, many would be satisfied with an ending that doesn't have such massive plotholes, shitty writing and a Dragon Age: Origins type epilogue (because that's the only game they know of with epilogue slides :roll:). According to them, Shep doesn't need a happy ending, but there has to be closure on what the fuck actually happens to everyone else in the three games in accordance with the choices and decisions they've made.

The whole "you're a fucking moron that just wanted a happy ending where Shepard marries his waifu or husbando (or both)" is actually a common catch cry from the biodrones who don't want their precious BioWare to change the endings and compromise their artistic integrity™.

Still, the only rational response to all this is:
2402758291_79f8d5045c_o.gif
 

Regdar

Arcane
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
665
I have never read, watched, or felt any narrative to be its equal. I think this is because of the nature of the medium. No where else can you so actively take part in something that has so much immersion, connection, and realism. This is simply it. I would even argue that it is greater then the greatest things ever written. You simply cannot interact (empathize) with a book in the same way you can a video game. I know this is heresy to people of literature, but it is a simple fact. Books can never interact in the same way as a video game can. I would actually like to stop calling them video games, they are way past the definition of a game. I don't know what I'd call them, but many are not games anymore.

What the fuck am I reading?
 

CrustyBot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
814
Codex 2012
There's also another Forbes article out about ME 3 if you guys are interested.

The whole thing falls apart at the end, however. Muzyka writes:

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.​
Oh, to be sure, there is such thing as destructive commentary. True ad hominem does exist in the wild. But the notion that artists ought only respond to constructive criticism is delirious. If games are truly art, and the teams who develop them truly artists, why should they be treated with kid’s gloves?

“There is no need to take a “constructive” attitude with talented artists,” writes Stephen Bond, “if anything, they find such an attitude more offensive. As H.L. Mencken said: “I do not object to being denounced, but I can’t abide being schoolmastered, especially by men I regard as imbeciles.” The constructive critic is a crow who takes it upon himself to educate the eagle; one who tries to force his own limitations on those who can soar far higher, unencumbered.”

Constructive criticism, Bond argues, is a “mass hallucination.” It is “inimical to the purposes of criticism as art. I’ll say it again: the point of criticism is not to improve you, but to express me. And each time I digress to offer you helpful suggestions, encouraging remarks and other pep-talk, I am not truly expressing myself. I’m merely being polite, nice, even a bit condescending — in other words, I’m being aesthetically repulsive.”

:bro:
 

Azalin

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
7,505
Half a year old. And eh, it's what the guy said it is, a good game suffering from some padding and some under-developed stuffies.

And now, for something completely different, supposedly this comes from one of Bio writers:

http://pastebin.com/i2cNVDp4


I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).

No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d

And again, it shows.





Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

Wait there is a way to save Mordin and say holo-goodbye to him in the last mission?

:rage:
Now I have to replay this shit
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
There's also another Forbes article out about ME 3 if you guys are interested.

The whole thing falls apart at the end, however. Muzyka writes:

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.​
Oh, to be sure, there is such thing as destructive commentary. True ad hominem does exist in the wild. But the notion that artists ought only respond to constructive criticism is delirious. If games are truly art, and the teams who develop them truly artists, why should they be treated with kid’s gloves?

“There is no need to take a “constructive” attitude with talented artists,” writes Stephen Bond, “if anything, they find such an attitude more offensive. As H.L. Mencken said: “I do not object to being denounced, but I can’t abide being schoolmastered, especially by men I regard as imbeciles.” The constructive critic is a crow who takes it upon himself to educate the eagle; one who tries to force his own limitations on those who can soar far higher, unencumbered.”

Constructive criticism, Bond argues, is a “mass hallucination.” It is “inimical to the purposes of criticism as art. I’ll say it again: the point of criticism is not to improve you, but to express me. And each time I digress to offer you helpful suggestions, encouraging remarks and other pep-talk, I am not truly expressing myself. I’m merely being polite, nice, even a bit condescending — in other words, I’m being aesthetically repulsive.”

:bro:
Fucketh me, an informed critic. And the citation from Bond is spot-on, any true artist will be offended by the attitudes that Bio demands. There's this thing called Art from Adversity, and I can totally see how this concept completely misses Bioware. But that's okay, because they're not even shabby artists, they're just a bunch of artisans riding on artistry coattails.

Wait there is a way to save Mordin and say holo-goodbye to him in the last mission?

:rage:
Now I have to replay this shit

Bros I'd be wary of this pastebin. It's either a troll or a set-up to pin blame on Hudson, basically, because even the basic premise it's trying to sell is bullshit. Hudson on his own can't in any fucking way influence the ending to Bio's f(L)agship trilogy. It's a fucking design-by-committee with double-checking through the marketing department and other higher-ups. Sure, if Hudson came with orders to end the series that way, then yes, it could work that way, but on his own, he's essentially nothing in the face of a brand, and nothing is his final say on the story of ME3 if it's not approved by the suits.

So yeah, either trolling or damage control, take your pick. If it's trolling, there might be no holo-byes, either.[/quote]
 

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,026
There's a header/referrer line you can change in decent browsers which makes imageshack work again.

Which breaks some sites in the process...

Or just use imgur.com

...or you can do this and avoid imagecrap.
Bullshit, Imgur blocked the Codex way before Imageshack, and at the time everyone was saying use the monocle option, namely, Imageshack, then Imgur changed its policy and now everyone recommend it.
Besides, if you are one of the retards going through the hoops for adblocking everything you can't complain about changing site preferences with two clicks.
 

Azalin

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
7,505
Wait there is a way to save Mordin and say holo-goodbye to him in the last mission?

:rage:
Now I have to replay this shit

Bros I'd be wary of this pastebin. It's either a troll or a set-up to pin blame on Hudson, basically, because even the basic premise it's trying to sell is bullshit. Hudson on his own can't in any fucking way influence the ending to Bio's f(L)agship trilogy. It's a fucking design-by-committee with double-checking through the marketing department and other higher-ups. Sure, if Hudson came with orders to end the series that way, then yes, it could work that way, but on his own, he's essentially nothing in the face of a brand, and nothing is his final say on the story of ME3 if it's not approved by the suits.

So yeah, either trolling or damage control, take your pick. If it's trolling, there might be no holo-byes, either.

I don't know anything about all the things he says about the ending but I searched youtube and it turns out Mordin can be saved if Wrex is dead and you destroyed the cure data in ME2





In the save I had imported Wrex was alive and I had saved the data

:rage:
 

Ion Prothon II

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
1,011
Location
Ołobok Zdrój
I searched youtube and it turns out he is correct in Mordin's case,he can be saved if Wrex is dead and you destroyed the cure data in ME2
You can still fool Wrex and save Mordin. Too bad you have to kill Wrex later. In an emotionally engaging scene.
I couldn't motivate myself to not give the cure to krogans. They resemble Tarth from Deadlock game, and I liked those guys.
Whoa, wait a sec...
Tarth have evolved on Korga, a world extremely hostile to organic life
Thus, they are large (about 180 centimeters wide, height and weight not specified), lumbering behemoths with a thick, orange hide covered in scale-like plates. Tarth are bipedal creatures, somewhat resembling bulldogs with a powerful frame and a short tail.

BIOWARREEE!!!
:x
 

hoopy

Savant
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
1,547
Location
Suspended in a ghost jail
I think the pastebin is fake since the writer is trying to be anonymous yet clearly gives away his identity by saying what particular things he did during development.
 

Weierstraß

Learned
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
282
Location
Schwitzerland
Project: Eternity
There's definitely something off with the review. Maybe not with the reviewing portion itself (though it doesn't cover all the aspects of the game), but the bits that were supposed to be funny, were not.

It's too much of a speech. The Plinkett reviews have more a a discussion type tone, and Half in the Bag of course is a discussion between two people. Aso, the acting parts are, I won't say "too good", but they'd be funnier if they either were worse or much better.
 

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