The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

[Stinger]

The ending DLC will have Shepard sitting on a chair, in the middle of the void, thinking of his decisions and full of self-loathing. Then every squad member will appear, and tell him: "Congratulations!". The End.

Just wait and see :p

It's been done:



Incidentally he did that video back in 2011.

 

[Angthoron]

How does Bioware accomplish Temptress, exactly? Oh God the implications are enough to spawn a 250 page thread on its own.

You do go back to the start of the journey (ME begins with a view of Earth, ending of ME3 is a war-torn Earth) to confront the main villain.

"Temptress" doesn't have to be an actual living being, and can be a concept that tempts the hero towards the "dark side" - I suppose that it can be extended to protagonist's whole party, but in ME series, the party simply isn't tempted by anything. In DA, I suppose the "blood magic" thing is a Temptress type thing, though, so DA series is thus more formulaic if we stick to the monomyth theory.

As for returning to where we start, I suppose there's some merit to that, but it takes only the superficial notion of returning to where the story starts - the hero him/herself does not in fact return, since technically speaking the Journey's Return stages deal with the hero coming to terms that the journey is over and they have to go back to normal life in an ordinary world. This never happens in BioWare games (well, except in Throne of Bhaal) because it means an end to the series - and since you don't want the series to end because you want to make more sequels, you simply don't introduce the elements that will destroy the ambiguity/end the Journey.

 

[SCO]

God i hate "rules" in "art".

 

[Angthoron]

God i hate "rules" in "art".

Keep in mind that the only "art" BioWare has going for it is the ART part of ARTisan, and artisans love their rules.

 

[Regdar]

As for returning to where we start, I suppose there's some merit to that, but it takes only the superficial notion of returning to where the story starts - the hero him/herself does not in fact return, since technically speaking the Journey's Return stages deal with the hero coming to terms that the journey is over and they have to go back to normal life in an ordinary world. This never happens in BioWare games (well, except in Throne of Bhaal) because it means an end to the series - and since you don't want the series to end because you want to make more sequels, you simply don't introduce the elements that will destroy the ambiguity/end the Journey.

Well yeah but building a house for Tali is only one part of the journey's end, exile and ultimate sacrifice being the others. ME's end is, technically, the ultimate sacrifice forced upon the hero in three different colors. Also, Shepards death doesn't signify the end of the ME franchise, just the ME trilogy. Prequels, spin-offs (Mass Effect: Battlefront, anyone?) are almost 100% sure to follow.

Not sure what we're arguing about anymore. ME is a monomyth, or a wannabe-monomyth, and my point was that it should be judged based on those merits, not that Mass Effect -had- any merit to begin with. Looking for logic in a story that's under no pressure to be logical is an exercise in futility. That whole 32 minute video is pointless for that reason.

For the record I don't have faith in video game writing in general, Biowarean writing simply being case in point atrocious. The only story I can stomach in a video game is the one contained within the gameplay, not the other way around.

 

[Angthoron]

Yeah, I'll definitely agree that it's a monomyth wannabe. Don't know what we were arguing about either frankly. If we're to judge it on those merits though, then it's simply shit, because as I said, using a descriptive theory to proscribe an approach to writing is beyond lazy and careless.

Edit: Are you talking about Campbellian Journey, or some later revision, by the way? Since I can't recall Campbell dealing directly with Exile (or so much with Ultimate Sacrifice) things.

 

[Regdar]

I believe it's a variation on Refusal to Return.

 

[Angthoron]

I believe it's a variation on Refusal to Return.

Ah, like that - good point.

 

[CrustyBot]

It. Never. Fucking. Ends.

We propose giving EA and Bioware immediate feedback on the importance of the Ending DLC, so they can allocate sufficient resources to make a quality product.

To that end, we propose the following campaign:

We will turn ON our single player game during a pre-defined period to show EA/Bioware the number of passionate fans who love the series andwho will continue to buy their products IF the DLC provides a satisfactory ending.

We will then turn OFF our game and refuse to play for a pre-defined time period to give EA/Bioware a clear idea of the potential loss of custom and support they will suffer if the DLC is NOT satisfying.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

This is embarrassing to read.

 

[Angthoron]

This gives my gut the same disgusted feel like watching a romantic comedy.

 

[Gord]

This is embarrassing to read.

 

[hiver]

Some of those plot holes he points out are so awesome they make me want to touch myself.

in part two, the part starting at 16:00 is pure awesomesauce.

 

[Menckenstein]

This makes my dick soft.

 

[Valestein]

Those fanboys need to get a life. The story was horrible throughout ME3, it didn't suddenly turn bad with the endings.

 

[Angthoron]

Those fanboys need to get a life. The story was mostly horrible throughout ME series, it didn't suddenly turn bad with the endings.

Fixed.

 

[Valestein]

True that. The giant metal space bug story was always stupid.

 

[Stokowski]

tl; dr

 

[sgc_meltdown]

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q628/bestthreadever/misc/9f6fb18c.gif

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mas...bout-the-EC-If-I-were-Bioware-11650726-1.html
"Forget about the EC. If I were Bioware... "

I'd just cut and run.

Just look at the polls here. The EC will satisfy maybe 20% of the fans. According to the rest it will be more like twisting the knife. Why even bother? Every day that passes the tone on BSN turns ever more negative. After the ending, it's every little flaw, perceived inconsistency and decrease in quality in ME3 that's being passed under the microscope. The consensus is clear, the game isn't worth sh*t (Actually it's down to circa $30, the joy was unanimous over that).

Well, having the team keep working on patches, DLC and stuff for who knows how many more months simply isn't worth it. These guys cost moneys, and EA is still reporting losses. No sense in digging ourselves in deeper.

Forget the ME franchise. It's toxic. OK, we heard you, saw the writing on the wall, learned the lesson, let's not do it again!
Let's get as far away from there as possible in fact.

Speaking of which... can anyone dig up those old D&D license papers? What was the expiry date on those? I hear there's been some interesting stuff going on in the Forgotten realms universe.

The sooner we stop prolonging the agony over ME3, the sooner work on Baldur's Gate 3 can begin. What say ye?

Seriously guys BW has been working hard on the DLC... I think we OWE them a chance at this point. They read the boards, they know whats being said. I understand the desire for BG3 but... thats a pipe dream at this point. Why on earth would BW abandon DA and ME considering it's IP they own and it's extremely popular!?! Just the fact that there are so many people ****ing about the ME3 ending will tell you that people are invested in the game... Look at this point let's be constructive about what we want because this other chatter isn't doing anything except pissing people off. I mean really... it's not like BW can tell us exactly whats in the DLC (cause that would just ruin it). They are hard at work on stuff, when they have news to post they will. I've seen several twitter posts by the writing team of ME on epic meetings (and believe me if you've ever sat in a 4 hour meeting you know how it is) over the last few weeks. There is absolutely nothing they can do right now aside what they are doing... They don't typically comment on EMS issues cause really they really only need to do that when they have a fix (several people have already said they are looking at it so why post more on it... and even then whats the point of talking about it if you don't have a fix immenant.. spend more time fixing than running fire drills).

All that said I lost a lot of respect for BW at the onset of this cause lets face it the ending sucked (no need to go on as to why as it's been covered multiple times). I think they do deserve some credit for admiting there are issues and trying to fix them. We all complain but look... if this was ubisoft, or activision, or (insert game publisher/studio here) they would likely say just deal with it. Heck Valve has had us on a cliff hanger for HL3 for how long??? Valve doesn't even get cupcakes for heavens sake. While BW is no longer an instant purchase for me, I still respect them and I'm eagerly awaiting what they are gonna do.

I owe them nothing. I've already given them money for the game, what more do I "owe" them? Money, mind you, that they held onto for six weeks while I waited on a face import patch so I could play my own Shepard(s). A patch, mind you, that DID NOT WORK. For a feature that should have worked from day 1. I had to rely on a fan-fix to get my Shep into the game. The one that Bioware claimed their patch accurately represented.

You say oh, they're working hard on the DLC! Well, that's speculation. A word this fourm just loves, but, really, that's all it is. Speculation. They could have 2 guys working on it in the afternoons before they head home, which is why it'll take so long, for all you know.

Extending something doesn't make it better. If you have a fever, and you feel awful, will having a longer, higher fever be even better? No. No it won't.

Also, don't even compare Valve to Bioware. They aren't even in the same league. Valve would never have screwed something up this badly, nor left critical issues in the game broken for this long. SO many bugs, story errors, import problems, faces still awful, laundry list of problems.

That said, Valve hasn't "had you" on a "cliffhanger" for HL3. They've never even announced such a game is being made, and generally only even hint at the possibility of it. If they say they're making something, they do, and they are not afraid of holding it back for months, or even years, to make sure it's exactly what they want it to be. (Such as TF2). They don't rush things out before they're done.

Even if the EC and every non-cashcow...I mean "multiplayer" DLC is a total love letter to fans (instead of a love letter to EA shareholders), Bioware is still going to be climbing up a very, very tall hill.

If you alienate your fanbase enough, you can make all the DLC you please, but it doesn't mean anyone's going to buy it. Wouldn't doubt the DLC of ME3 will go the same route as the DLC from DA2. Disappear.

 

[Oriebam]

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q628/bestthreadever/misc/9f6fb18c.gif

what




























I know about the tali picture but... what is that referencing

 

[DragoFireheart]

God Bioware has created such a shitty PR for themselves. DA series got shitted on, TOR is doing horribly, and now the Mass Effect series has been the singular source of contempt for them. It's like they were trying to commit suicide on purpose.

 

[waywardOne]

It's quite a lethal combination, shit product plus shit PR.

 

[deus101]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...rid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=911#post403068185

RaspberryCommie suggested this and it was too cute not to do. (Trast, Findell and some others helped with some ideas too!)

 

[CrustyBot]

(BSN Thread) Necessary Change for Love Interests in the Future - Bioware PLEASE Read

So I just wanted to throw this out there. We all know that Mass Effect gets an enormous chunk of it's "drive" from being a character driven story etc etc.

And one facet of the character interaction that is enjoyed by many, is the added immersion of our Commander Shepard having a romantic relationship with someone in the game.

While I believe Bioware generally did a decent job with romances, save for things like awkward PG hugging or wearing clothes in a shower....(basically abandoning high quality, high class ME1 scenes) there is one element of Love Interest (LI) interaction that really really bothered me:

(or rather the fact that the element wasn't there)

The fact of the matter is, ME3 essentially made it feel like you weren't in a relationship.

...

I don't know about you, Dear Bioware, but if it were me, I'd definitely find some comfort and solace with my LI. Unless you imagine that after all my Shepard goes through he just stares at his pretty ship models until he falls asleep....

So yeah, there it is. Please don't think I'm asking you to turn your game into a dating simulator. I really don't want that. But I do believe that it is a disservice to the game and the immersion of the universe you have created when our Shepard is facing such impossibly difficult situations and all the while our relationships with other characters are barely mentioned much less being able to interact in the slightest with the character our Shepard has feelings for.

So my request which I believe to be a simple and easy thing to implement in the future, is that you devote just a little bit of your resources to two things:

1) Creating acknowledgement of our relationships beyond the bare minimum that is in the game right now.

2) Creating some sort of minimum interaction with our LI that is available to us at least while at our home base (Normandy).

Thanks to anyone and everyone who took the time to read my idea. I hope I didn't come across as some creeper who wants a Japanese Dating Sim Version of Mass Effect and I also hope I didn't come across as arrogantly telling Bioware how to do their job, it's just that I really really think it was a mistake to leave the described elements out of the game.

I like how he goes out of his way to mention that he doesn't want a dating sim, several times.

Utterly, utterly support this idea!

My Shepard loves Ashley. Not being able to spend off duty time with her is a real kick in the quad. Like many I'm sure, I was extremely hurt when she lambasted me on Horizon in ME2 and considered seeking solace in another's arms. But I restrained myself because of said feelings for her.

The most meaningful part of the relationship in ME3 was going with her to the memorial wall and helping her comfort her sister. More time on small stuff like this would help it feel like a much more natural relationship. No relationship I've ever been in/seen etc consists soley of kissing and sex. There's the little details like spending time together.

Plus the odd date at breaks in the story like after retaking the citadel or after the geth/quarian conflict would allow us to improve that bond even further.

The biggest issue I feel with this is that some LI's just can't get this level of commitment based on their story. Thane, Jacob and Miranda all spring to mind, because of what they're doing.

fine lets just let the next bioware game be Couples Effect. Where you play a Male/Female trying to pick up and fall in love with another game character..lol

I'm sorry you have no interest in the role-playing part of "RPG". I hear there's another Halo game coming out soon, perhaps that's more to your speed.

Until then, how about you go off and play while those of us who actually DO like to role-play our particular Shepards have a discussion, mmkay?

 

[deus101]

I asked them...in what sense is it even "roleplaying"(as in family therapy) when you are using lines given out by Bioware.