-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread
- Thread starter Wyrmlord
- Start date
Necroscope
Arcane
Why do you insist on going round in circles ignoring any sensible argument?
The photo pretty much illustrates the overall lazy and sloppy design.
Is it so hard to believe that the same people pulled the endings?
This is just a pure speculation, moreover rendered obsolete long ago.
there are other examples of Bioware's severe incompetence in ME3 than the godawful writing
The photo pretty much illustrates the overall lazy and sloppy design.
Is it so hard to believe that the same people pulled the endings?
It had a lot to do in terms of the potential content ME3 could have had, namely around the characters that had to be drastically marginalised due to the possibility of ending up dead in ME2. And the characters story arcs are crucial to the plot. Also, ME2 retconned a lot of the lore surrounding Reapers and Protheans.
racofer
Thread Incliner
Necroscope
Arcane
ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!
![TFYic0K.jpg[img]](http://i.imgur.com/TFYic0K.jpg[img])
Lhynn
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Messages
- 9,895
That would actually be all kinds of awesome.
Xor shepards indoctrination doesnt work differently from anyone else O.o The difference is that Saren was indoctrinated, Shepard wasnt, he was being indoctrinated. Everyone has different thresholds, everyone has different things they would budge to, the ending is merely to see if they finally break shepard or not.
In that context the choices make sense, either he goes all Saren, or all TIM, or realizes there is no middle ground and does what he set out to do, win the war in the only way he knows its reliable.
Shepard indoctrination process began on Arrival, 2 days resting after the artifact knocked you out and ordered everyone to keep you alive and well. And the attacks were repeated when his mind was the most vulnerable and stressed. He still didnt show any signs of being indoctrinated simply because he wasnt. In the same way you arent indoctrinated at the begining of the process in real life, you are just, in the process.
It works with everyone exactly the same, it was the same with wrex, for example. But in his case he left a lot earlier and had a lot less contact with it, as soon as he felt something was wrong he just left, he didnt even got the money they owed him i think.
About why not release the IT ending? They said it was the last chapter in shepards history, that it would bring an end to it. and they also said that you wouldnt get A, B, or C endings. To adress both and avoid legal issues they went with a clarification and several endings where not only the last choice mattered but a number of the most important ones in the trilogy and bullet dodged.
They made some other claims such as this one, and they all ended up being lies. So the extended cut made them the truth.
It was rushed, poorly managed, but the game had direction, albeit a stupid one, till about 15 minutes before the end. Which really doesnt make any sense, what the fuck happened to all the cringe worthy, juvenile writing that had been going on for the entirety of the game? where did it go? who gave it to prosper?
Xor
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2008
- Messages
- 9,345
You're seriously just making shit up now. I'm not even going to bother if the best you can do is just resort to head canon.
Casey Hudson did. This has been established. It wasn't peer reviewed and that's why it ended up making no sense.
I guess that's why they ended up getting sued for false advertising...OH WAIT. I notice you completely dropped that point a few pages ago. So why didn't they just go through with the IT ending again?
Lhynn
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Messages
- 9,895
1) Well, that one is the obvious one, you can pick any of the other contacts shepard has had with reapers or reaper tech. But arrival was the optional dlc that ended up being mandatory to understand what happens in ME3, it was obviously released because of poor planning, they just didnt knew what the fuck me3 was going to be about, and realized that after ME2... they needed to give that game a point, arrival was the point of ME2.
Plus, you did spend 2 days on bed completely defenseless, please explain why. And dont say poor writing, thats bullshit, look for something that makes sense within the narrative or dont bother.
2) Yup, i said pages ago that it wasnt peer reviewed, but the dude cant possibly be that bad. Just as you like to attribute stuff to laziness i like to look a little bit farther.
3) Because that would have meant it was a new ending and not a clarification i guess. instead of changing the general perception they just went with it.
Plus, you did spend 2 days on bed completely defenseless, please explain why. And dont say poor writing, thats bullshit, look for something that makes sense within the narrative or dont bother.
2) Yup, i said pages ago that it wasnt peer reviewed, but the dude cant possibly be that bad. Just as you like to attribute stuff to laziness i like to look a little bit farther.
3) Because that would have meant it was a new ending and not a clarification i guess. instead of changing the general perception they just went with it.
Roleplaying games with choice & consequence start relatively simple with few "configurations scenarios" for a given scene: for example, player is male/female, player is elf/human/dwarf and so on, but as the main character interacts with the world more and more "IFs" are added (did the player save the princess? did the player klill baron Meinhamer? ...) the complexity ever increases which means as the plot advances the effort necessary to script a minute worth of story ever increases.
Taking that in mind ME2 with its sucide mission was way too much to tackle for Bioware, the first thing I thought when I played it other than nicely done ending was: What the fuck are they going to do in ME3 with so many people either dead or alive?? Don't take me wrong I think the suicide mission among the best things in the whole series, but the suicide mission should have been in ME3's ending, the last game's ending is open, developers do not need to take into account how much it will take to do the next chapter because there is none, but in ME2's finale ... it was a noobish mistake, if the writers of ME series can do such basic silly mistake they can surely write a silly and stupid ending.
With a little bit of common sense they would have kept ME2's ending constrained and pulled of a "suicide mission"-like final mission for ME3 alas it wasn't so, the ending was a pile of crap, that's not gonna change, so let it rest. They never intended the IT but it still makes more sense than the original ending (EC or not) which truly gives us a meassure of the magnitude of the fumble from Bioware's "writing" team which is certainly the most EPIC thing about ME. Peole will talk about the ME3 ending in 20 years even if only to teach people how NOT to write a game. Guess they have passed to posterity, HURAAH for BIOWARE
TLDR: I wholeheartedly agree that ME2's ending screwed the trilogy.
Taking that in mind ME2 with its sucide mission was way too much to tackle for Bioware, the first thing I thought when I played it other than nicely done ending was: What the fuck are they going to do in ME3 with so many people either dead or alive?? Don't take me wrong I think the suicide mission among the best things in the whole series, but the suicide mission should have been in ME3's ending, the last game's ending is open, developers do not need to take into account how much it will take to do the next chapter because there is none, but in ME2's finale ... it was a noobish mistake, if the writers of ME series can do such basic silly mistake they can surely write a silly and stupid ending.
With a little bit of common sense they would have kept ME2's ending constrained and pulled of a "suicide mission"-like final mission for ME3 alas it wasn't so, the ending was a pile of crap, that's not gonna change, so let it rest. They never intended the IT but it still makes more sense than the original ending (EC or not) which truly gives us a meassure of the magnitude of the fumble from Bioware's "writing" team which is certainly the most EPIC thing about ME. Peole will talk about the ME3 ending in 20 years even if only to teach people how NOT to write a game. Guess they have passed to posterity, HURAAH for BIOWARE
TLDR: I wholeheartedly agree that ME2's ending screwed the trilogy.
Necroscope
Arcane
It's mind-blowing how delusional some people are, and it's even more tragic once you look at the chronology of this disaster:
1. The very first info about the endings came from the leaked script. It was posted on various ME forums but at the time few believed that this is the final scenario.
2. The information from the script was first confirmed by the people who were lucky to get the pre-release version of the game (so called "Space Edition"). Even after they posted photos of their copies of the game and the first low quality screenshots from the epilogue were submitted on the Internet many either refused to believe them, or refused to believe that there's nothing more on the disk.
3. People started to research the disk for any traces of the potential ending DLC, but aside from some cut content (mostly dialogue lines) from the actual endings nothing was ever found. And this alone is very solid evidence because if anything regarding the endings was planned before the release there surely would be traces - just as there were traces and some files from the upcoming DLCs already implemented (same was true for ME2).
4. Patrick Weekes posts on Penny Arcade saying that Casey basically fucked it up and the only part of the game he's really happy about is the Tuchanka segment (personally I agree that this is the only good part of the game). Later on he requests the posts to be removed.
5. What Weeks said is confirmed by "The Final Hours" APP; there is a photo of Hudson notes regarding the endings with his famous line, "lots of speculation from everyone" (speculation whenever Shepard is alive, why did he have to die etc.). He also didn't want a boss fight with Harbinger because due to him that would be "too video gamey" (another classic line).
4. Bioware releases a statement in which they're quite clear about providing "further closure" rather than anything else. But still, some people are naive enough to believe the upcoming DLC is going to confirm the IT.
5. There are various backstage information regarding voice recording sessions and future DLC plans which also seems to confirm no ending DLC was ever planned. In fact, they had to arrange a few extra sessions for the EC and they considered charging players for the DLC.
5. The EC gets released and debunks the IT.
6. Leviathan gets released and debunks the IT even further. Also, still no traces of the "true ending" were ever found within the DLC files.
8. And here we go, 2 years later and some people still beating that dead old horse.
Overall, there's not a single piece of data that would back the IT or that it was was ever even considered by the devs - quite fucking opposite. The theory was created by a bunch of desperate fans who started to connect completely random pieces of the plot, lore, sounds and codex entries, and it's not the first time something like that ever happened. The most ridiculous, though, is the assumption that Bioware, after all the shitty retcons and retarded decisions the pulled, SUDDENLY put some INTENTIONAL plot holes in the game and planned such a complex conundrum leaving subtle hints all over the game.
/
1. The very first info about the endings came from the leaked script. It was posted on various ME forums but at the time few believed that this is the final scenario.
2. The information from the script was first confirmed by the people who were lucky to get the pre-release version of the game (so called "Space Edition"). Even after they posted photos of their copies of the game and the first low quality screenshots from the epilogue were submitted on the Internet many either refused to believe them, or refused to believe that there's nothing more on the disk.
3. People started to research the disk for any traces of the potential ending DLC, but aside from some cut content (mostly dialogue lines) from the actual endings nothing was ever found. And this alone is very solid evidence because if anything regarding the endings was planned before the release there surely would be traces - just as there were traces and some files from the upcoming DLCs already implemented (same was true for ME2).
4. Patrick Weekes posts on Penny Arcade saying that Casey basically fucked it up and the only part of the game he's really happy about is the Tuchanka segment (personally I agree that this is the only good part of the game). Later on he requests the posts to be removed.
5. What Weeks said is confirmed by "The Final Hours" APP; there is a photo of Hudson notes regarding the endings with his famous line, "lots of speculation from everyone" (speculation whenever Shepard is alive, why did he have to die etc.). He also didn't want a boss fight with Harbinger because due to him that would be "too video gamey" (another classic line).
4. Bioware releases a statement in which they're quite clear about providing "further closure" rather than anything else. But still, some people are naive enough to believe the upcoming DLC is going to confirm the IT.
5. There are various backstage information regarding voice recording sessions and future DLC plans which also seems to confirm no ending DLC was ever planned. In fact, they had to arrange a few extra sessions for the EC and they considered charging players for the DLC.
5. The EC gets released and debunks the IT.
6. Leviathan gets released and debunks the IT even further. Also, still no traces of the "true ending" were ever found within the DLC files.
8. And here we go, 2 years later and some people still beating that dead old horse.
Overall, there's not a single piece of data that would back the IT or that it was was ever even considered by the devs - quite fucking opposite. The theory was created by a bunch of desperate fans who started to connect completely random pieces of the plot, lore, sounds and codex entries, and it's not the first time something like that ever happened. The most ridiculous, though, is the assumption that Bioware, after all the shitty retcons and retarded decisions the pulled, SUDDENLY put some INTENTIONAL plot holes in the game and planned such a complex conundrum leaving subtle hints all over the game.
/
Apparently he can.
Last edited:
DraQ
Arcane
It's the same mode of thinking as with conspiracy theories and the like.
Once your belief relies on evidence being arbitrarily false, no amount of extra evidence can falsify it.
At least IT has the excuse of being the only way to make sense out of BW's logically inconsistent turdalanche, without dismissing the series as tripe it is and BW as talentless hacks.
Necroscope
Arcane
I doubt there was ever a chance for a DLC supporting the IT. Even if Bioware would have been inclined to do so (and they wasn't), that would require writing another chapter of the story the size of a normal DLC with all the VAs back on stage. Such a DLC would cost them a lot of money and they would obviously have to charge for it. Now imagine the backlash they would receive for "pay to see the ending", not only from their fanbase. They would have been called on this forever.
DraQ
Arcane
Last edited:
Who would've thought that Tali was really a purple Afghani woman with deformed hands? What a Twist!
imweasel
Guest
ftfy
DraQ
Arcane
Fixed?
imweasel
Guest
Fixed.
Necroscope
Arcane
BTW:
I wonder whose dick is that, Casey or Mac?
I wonder whose dick is that, Casey or Mac?
DraQ
Arcane
There is a reason why everything in oblivion looked so pudgy and smoothed over.
It's Shepard's right thumb: he's holding the picture of Tali which can be found framed at the side of his bed.BTW:
I wonder whose dick is that, Casey or Mac?
RPGMaster
Savant
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2011
- Messages
- 703
Necroscope
Arcane
You ruined the mystery.It's Shepard's right thumb: he's holding the picture of Tali which can be found framed at the side of his bed.BTW:
I wonder whose dick is that, Casey or Mac?
Yeah, we wanted dick pictures. For laughing at. No homo.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.